Covid 19 CRISIS

NecroJoe

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The few places I've hard where they are letting people come back to work if you're vaccinated, if you don't have a vaccine card, need a negative test from the prior day, every day.
 

Perc

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My parents are eligible for Astra Zeneca now. The booking system opened just this morning. Good stuff.
 

SirEdward

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Meanwhile, I had some drinks tonight with friends who are convinced they will not receive their shot before well into the autumn, if this year at all. Accordingly, at least one of them, who usually is a very level-headed person, basically exploded at the thought of giving vaccinated people their basic rights back while he is still on lockdown for another few months. *sigh*
I tried to convince them that they're overly pessimistic, but had to settle for "well, at least you'll be positively surprised"...

I understand them.

There should be little difference between vaccinated and non-vaccinated, the only difference being to allow the vaccinated doing something to help the non-vaccinated too. Like the healthcare professions, for example.

Leisures? Eh... not so much... that would generate resentment and hate.

---

On a sidenote: I received a message from the Healthcare System: I am eligible for the vaccine and I should be able to get an appointment within April. Probably Pfizer or Moderna.
 

Dr_Grip

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I expect much more shaky daily figures now that GPs are in the mix. If they get a weekly shipment I expect them to administer their entire shipment in one afternoon dedicated to covid vaccinations, leading to very bouncy per-day numbers.
German doctors being German doctors, they dedicate Monday to putting people on "yellow holidays"* (i.e. signing sick notes) and don't like to work on Fridays, so we can expect huge peaks Tue-Thu as they burn through more than 1,2 mio doses a day, with "only" a 400-ish baseline from the vaccination centers Fri-Mon. But this still levels out at a very impressive 700K average. If we ignore J&J and assume half of these go into first shots, we end at 0,5% of those eligible a day, meaning without any increase in speed after April, a theoretical 100% vaccination coverage including hypothetical second doses for J&J is possible until October. Deduct 30% hesistant and we are back at our usual early July window for everyone who wants a shot having gotten one.

*note to non-Germans: The form you have to hand in with your employer when you are sick is yellow, thus calling in sick on Monday is stigmatized as "taking a yellow holiday".
 
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Dr_Grip

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There should be little difference between vaccinated and non-vaccinated, the only difference being to allow the vaccinated doing something to help the non-vaccinated too. Like the healthcare professions, for example.

Leisures? Eh... not so much... that would generate resentment and hate.
As we had this debate a few pages downthread, let me just recap my main point quickly: Currently, people have basic rights taken away from them because they pose a danger to themselves and others (due to asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic covid spread). If this changes (because due to being vaccinated, the risk of them spreading covid is close to zero) there is no legal way to take away their rights any more, at least not under German law.
You can have a grace period maybe until everyone who wants a shot can get one, but then, there is absolutely no reason to allow 15% vaccine refusers to hold society hostage.

This works very well and without any resentment and hate with the "green vaccination passport" in Israel.
 

narf

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As we had this debate a few pages downthread, let me just recap my main point quickly: Currently, people have basic rights taken away from them because they pose a danger to themselves and others (due to asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic covid spread). If this changes (because due to being vaccinated, the risk of them spreading covid is close to zero) there is no legal way to take away their rights any more, at least not under German law.
You can have a grace period maybe until everyone who wants a shot can get one, but then, there is absolutely no reason to allow 15% vaccine refusers to hold society hostage.

This works very well and without any resentment and hate with the "green vaccination passport" in Israel.
:nod:

Put differently, you would not be granting privileges to the vaccinated, you would stop restricting their rights.


PS: 4.9Hz 🏎️
 
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Misrabelle

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So, the new advice in Australia is that the AstraZenica vax is not recommended to people under 50 due to the blood clotting risk. However anyone in the risk group who has already had the first dose successfully is fine to receive the second dose.

Another 20 million doses of the Pfizer vax have been ordered. We manufacture the AZ vax here, so I'm guessing most of that will now be sold overseas instead.
Not sure yet on how this sets back our timeline. My parents are now in the elligible group, but have not made appointments to get it thus far.
 

93Flareside

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I’m scheduling early afternoon to get my first of the moderna. Sounds like it’s basically the same as the Pfizer minus subzero cooling, woo.
 

SirEdward

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You can have a grace period maybe until everyone who wants a shot can get one, but then, there is absolutely no reason to allow 15% vaccine refusers to hold society hostage.
Of course.

The thing is, though: things cannot really change until it would be possible for everyone who so desire to get the vaccine. The reaction would otherwise be what you witnessed earlier on and what DanRoM told about his friends.
 

narf

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The thing is, though: things cannot really change until it would be possible for everyone who so desire to get the vaccine. The reaction would otherwise be what you witnessed earlier on and what DanRoM told about his friends.
The first batch of easing for fully vaccinated people here is likely to happen this month 🤷‍♂️
Stuff like not having to show a fresh negative test where the unvaccinated still have to, or not having to quarantine after returning from abroad. If not through government actions then through courts striking down those restrictions for vaccinated people for lack of cause.
 

93Flareside

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The first batch of easing for fully vaccinated people here is likely to happen this month 🤷‍♂️
Stuff like not having to show a fresh negative test where the unvaccinated still have to, or not having to quarantine after returning from abroad. If not through government actions then through courts striking down those restrictions for vaccinated people for lack of cause.

No doubt this will be seen as a way to class people in the future. There’s already a huge Us vs. Them attitude in the states... :(
 

narf

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No doubt this will be seen as a way to class people in the future. There’s already a huge Us vs. Them attitude in the states... :(
Well, there's no legal and ethical alternative.
Take quarantining after returning from abroad. Without anyone vaccinated, that's done because you might be infectious and therefore a threat to others and help spread the pandemic - currently enough to force you to stay home for two weeks or so, and usually upheld in court [exceptions apply].
If say 80% are vaccinated, the pandemic aspect goes away and I'd expect quarantine requirements to be dropped for everyone, even the unvaccinated.
However even today a fully vaccinated person is no significant threat to others or the pandemic fight in general. If that threat is gone, by what legal or ethical reasoning could you force such a person to quarantine? You can't.

For the first few months of the vaccination effort this issue was suppressed here by way of "we don't know for sure if vaccinated people still spread the virus", but by now evidence is mounting and official papers are in saying "no significant threat", so that suppression is out the window.
 

gaasc

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Now you can register to purchase vaccines if you're a company.

my family is not a company.
 

gaasc

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I would, but then I saw the tax code.:cautious:
 

93Flareside

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We'll be Moderna Bros! :cheers:
H8g39cf.png
 

Perc

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No doubt this will be seen as a way to class people in the future.

If you decided against the vaccine because you "did your own research", I'm going to go ahead and say that that's not my f*ing problem.
 

Dr_Grip

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No doubt this will be seen as a way to class people in the future. There’s already a huge Us vs. Them attitude in the states... :(
There's a very small minority of people (less than .1 percent) that can't get vaccinated due to medical reasons. But for the 99.9% of people over 16 who can take one of the vaccines, I fully support a "us vs. them" attitude: Those who act responsible towards themselves and society by getting vaccinated versus those who act selfish and irresponsible. The latter deserve to be shamed. Even publicly.
The worst people are those who believe that vaccination works but are so worried about side-effects they simply trust in being protected by enough others getting a vaccine (like mothers who want to spare their precious kids the measels vaccination and explicitly rely on all the other kids having gotten it - I remember having a toxic discussion with a FG mom on Telegram about that last summer).
 

Perc

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like mothers who want to spare their precious kids the measels vaccination

Like this, a couple of years back...

I've never heard about the site "Newsbeezer" before but the two other links are Finland's national broadcasting company.



 
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