Covid 19 CRISIS

Perc

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I am raging about the people who DON'T get vaccinated when they could because they want the better stuff.

These people deserve to be put last in line, and their vaccination slots should be handled by some bureaucrats that are out of ink for their rubber stamps.
 

Dr_Grip

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I just picked up under a lot of panicky reporting that the Indian "double mutation" carries a lot less vaccine escape potential than the South Africa one, according to Cambridge's Ravi Gupta.
 

calvinhobbes

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You’re seeing “Impfneid“ where there is none. My first shot is scheduled for next Tuesday, so get off your high horses and think of the damage that this blatant favouritism is doing to our society. THAT is my point.

Millions of people have been doing more than they were told to to protect the weakest, “flatten the curve” and protect our healthcare system. They worked from home if possible (and if their employers allowed it), in many cases juggled childcare and/or homeschooling with work and if they were unlucky, their livelihoods were lost through no fault of their own and they were tossed into the misery of “Hartz IV”.

Most of these people are reasonably healthy Gen Xers and Millennials and as such, far from being eligible for vaccinations. But that doesn’t mean they were any less hard hit than the boomers who are making the rules and benefitting from them.

We’re now at what, less than 10% fully vaccinated? But our politicians are focusing on the nice and easy parts (reopening and playing favourites) rather than the very real problems (e.g. schools and Covid poverty) that are troubling many in the workforce. That’s a slap in the face of everyone who’s struggling and not yet lucky enough to be granted a vaccine.

And I nearly forgot to mention that lots of people believe they are protected right after the first dose when that’s only true two weeks after the second dose. I can look up the study I’m referring to later.
 

Dr_Grip

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And I nearly forgot to mention that lots of people believe they are protected right after the first dose when that’s only true two weeks after the second dose. I can look up the study I’m referring to later.
You have a reasonable protection (50%+) from getting (asymptomatically) infected and a 85%+ protection from getting a severe case from about 14 days after the first dose, ample data from Israel, Scotland, als elsewhere shows.
That's not even close to the what you get seven days after the booster shot, especially with the mRNA vaccines (with AZ, it's more of a "long burn" until full immunization sets in, independent of the booster). But it's not "being unprotected" either.

I will not comment on the rest of your post since we already had this a few weeks ago, and while I understand your anger, I don't think that by lashing out against the few things that are being done right you are doing yourself or the debate any favors.
 

calvinhobbes

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I don't think that by lashing out against the few things that are being done right you are doing yourself or the debate any favors.
To be honest, I don't think you're doing "the debate any favors" by ending it after your main argument against me personally has collapsed. You could apologise for accusing me of being just another "Impfneider" based on nothing but thin air. If that doesn't constitute "lashing out", i.e. a personal attack, I don't know what does.

As for the "vaccinated people are no longer a threat" argument, that's only true if people act responsibly and if there's at least some semblance of herd immunity; or at least widespread immunity among those people who are frequently in contact with others. The way it is looking now, vaccinated people will soon be able to travel to risk areas, catch the virus due to lack of social distancing and masks (it is a vacation, after all), return as asymptomatic carriers and spread it in a largely unvaccinated population. Think of situations like supermarket checkouts. And then we have to consider fake vaccination certificates.

Finally, if people can "wait for (their shots) for a few more weeks", why can't others wait a little bit longer for their holidays? I don't recall any constitutional right to long-distance holiday travel, but I distinctly remember that bodily integrity is a human right.
 

calvinhobbes

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And I nearly forgot to mention that lots of people believe they are protected right after the first dose when that’s only true two weeks after the second dose. I can look up the study I’m referring to later.

Just over 44% of adults reported that the vaccines provide strong protection against Covid-19 by 1 to 2 weeks after the second dose (in keeping with CDC guidelines), about 20% believed the vaccines provide strong protection before the second dose, and 36% were unsure.
If 20% percent believe this and act on this belief, we've got a huge problem because they will simply be giving the virus another opportunity at immune escape.
 

eizbaer

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I'm sort of with ch on this one...

Maybe ignore this rant, it doesn't add to the discussion - I'm just mad and had to type it out somewhere:
Honestly the way this is being handled is ridiculous. Today in the radio I heard (paraphrasing ofc) both Laschet and Bouffier talking about "solidarity with the unvaccinated population" after showing them the finger just two days beforehand. The way that they're now opening AZ to everyone also irks me - it seems like they're just doing it, to be able to say "well we offer the jab to everyone now, so it's purely your own fault if you're not vaccinated yet!". No, their fucking decisions are actively keeping the younger population locked down, while - I'll get flak for this, but fuck it - the CDU core electorate gets to enjoy life! All this is honestly a fucking outrage, it's insane - and don't come with the Impfneid thing again - honestly, I would've expected better from you guys than to come around with that bullshit - I'm not even affected myself in any way, I don't suffer from the restrictions in the slightest, I am vaccinated, and I'm still outraged.

Yes, legally speaking, you can't restrict people who are no longer a danger to the public - and I accept that. What I am not willing to accept is the fact that this garbage imbalance, again the young having to carry the weight of this shit, is purely down to political decisions made by people who have shown again and again that they do not have the best interest of the public at heart, but at best are working for their own best benefit.
 

calvinhobbes

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Maybe ignore this rant, it doesn't add to the discussion - I'm just mad and had to type it out somewhere:
I notice that we agree. You today, me one month ago:

 

Dr_Grip

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@calvinhobbes @eizbaer Nothing has changed since the post on page 148. I still agree that our government is criminally mishandling the pandemic. This is why I refused to discusss further, there's nothing new to discuss.

BUT - I still maintain that giving people their basic civil rights back as soon as possible, as well as the general management of the vaccination campaign, are the wrong topics topic in being angry.
As especially you @calvinhobbes pointed out, there is ample to be angry about. So I don't even disagree with you, I just think in typical German left fashion you picked the wrong example (a bit like with Mumia Abu-Jamal).
 

calvinhobbes

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I just think in typical German left fashion you picked the wrong example (a bit like with Mumia Abu-Jamal).
Dude, you insult me, don't apologise when given the opportunity, assume wildly and wrongly (again) what is angering me and then tell me that I'm angry at the wrong things. I think you might want to stop telling people how to discuss, let alone get psychological help.
 

Dr_Grip

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Dude, you insult me, don't apologise when given the opportunity, assume wildly and wrongly (again) what is angering me and then tell me that I'm angry at the wrong things. I think you might want to stop telling people how to discuss, let alone get psychological help.
I did not mean to insult you, and if I did (I guess you refer to "Impfneid"), I apoplogize.

In general, though, I don't really know what it is about my post that makes you take it so personal. And for whatever it is I apologize as well.
 

93Flareside

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I'm on the edge of my seat for when they announce actual information whether it'll be ok to travel. hopefully before ringmeet.


I need answers! :D
 

RdKetchup

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Yesterday the province of Quebec beat its record for most vaccination doses administered in one day, with 104742 doses, breaking the 100000 bar for the first time.

I was one of these doses :D

40% of the population has now received at least one shot.

Vaccination-21-05-07.png


My second dose is scheduled for late August since we are still on a 16 week schedule. I hope this changes soon, it would make things simpler if I could get my second dose before my trip to Germany in July.
 

jack_christie

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93Flareside

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Had my second vaccine yesterday. Admiration for Microsoft products have t changed and I haven’t noticed a 5G improvement. I feel jipped.

that said, I can’t tell if it’s from sitting for 9 hours for the monthly video meet, but there is some limb achey-ness. Most of what I feel is in my butt muscles. Shoulder is a little sore but nothing crazy.
 

Dr_Grip

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The Amtsärzte (basically the lowest level of our public health system, state-employed doctors responsible for public health policy on the county level) are positioning themselves as needing more funding in the gear-up to September's election by issuing a stern warning before an "overload of the German vaccination system" by "booster shots needed as early as June".

Meanwhile, in the real world, those who actually run the BioNTech trials say boosters will not be needed (statement dated May 4th):
Comirnaty’s six-month data is a testament to the vaccine’s durability, which is likely to be maintained up to at least 12 months following the initial two-dose regimen, said Phase III Comirnaty investigator Dr Stephen Thomas, chief, Infectious Disease Division, Upstate Medical University, Syracuse, New York. The six-month data from the Phase III portion of the Phase I/II/III trial showed a 3.7-point drop to 91.3% efficacy against symptomatic disease based on 850 confirmed infections in the placebo arm and 77 in the Comirnaty arm, according to a 1 April media release.

In general, a vaccine that triggers a durable response for the first six months typically has longer-term durability, Thomas added. And so, despite mRNA vaccines being a new technology, it is unlikely that Comirnaty’s efficacy will drop below 50% protection in the next six months, he noted. Regulatory agencies’ passing grade for Emergency Use Authorizations (EUAs) is 50%.
Of course Pfizer's CEO drums up the off-chance of boosters being needed since a six-month booster regimen would be pretty amazing for his company, commercially.

So what if we do need boosters after six months? Then the 550K people the German vaccination campaign managed to fully vaccinate in January will not even put a dent into the overall vaccination pace, let alone "overload the system" (we could literally do that in a day). Given the six-week dosing regimen, we'll be done with first shots for all who want one before a significant amount of people would even be up for a six-month booster appointment.

I understand that the election campaign run-up is the time for crazy demands and outrageous showboating, I just would prefer to keep the fight against the pandemic out of it. And I'd prefer for our press to do their job and not only copy and paste a statement like this into a live ticker, but provide some context - like I did just now.
 
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