Covid 19 CRISIS

NecroJoe

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Same with both of my local chain supermarkets, as well as Target and Costco.
 

Perc

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That's amazing... both from a "what it takes to nudge people" and a "well that's pointless" [a fresh jab does nothing to protect you today] perspective.

:blowup:

I can relate. It took a failed visit to the bank to get me to finally cough up the €70 or so for a set of ID photos and the schengen ID card. I had been putting it off.

I didn’t put the vaccination off, of course, and I wouldn’t have if it had been €70 either.
 

NecroJoe

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1632601949088.png
 

ninjacoco

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gaasc

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Correlation, which, as I should have on a macro key instead of typing at this point, does not imply causation. no matter how much the algorithm rewards putting "Trump" in your search results. The chart could also likely match with, for example, average time of facebook, alcoholic beverage preference, choice of vehicle, and any other number of things.
 
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calvinhobbes

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Are you seriously not seeing a causal link between a cult leader praising all sorts of inadequate “miracle drugs” and his followers dying from the illness those are supposed to cure?

Hardcore Trumpists live in an alternate reality. There absolutely is a link between the consequences of this and the guy they worship and vote for.
 

narf

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Are you seriously not seeing a causal link between a cult leader praising all sorts of inadequate “miracle drugs” and his followers dying from the illness those are supposed to cure?

Hardcore Trumpists live in an alternate reality. There absolutely is a link between the consequences of this and the guy they worship and vote for.
I think the only question is what the direction of the link is.
Does "votes for Trump" imply "is less likely to be vaccinated"?
Does "unvaccinated" imply "is more likely to vote for Trump"? [heh, my browser autocorrect wants to change "unvaccinated" to "vaccinated" :lmao:]
Does "something else" imply a higher likelihood for both?
All of the above?
 

ninjacoco

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Are you seriously not seeing a causal link between a cult leader praising all sorts of inadequate “miracle drugs” and his followers dying from the illness those are supposed to cure?

Hardcore Trumpists live in an alternate reality. There absolutely is a link between the consequences of this and the guy they worship and vote for.
Sure, everyone has their own different reasons for not getting vaccinated, not being careful, or not believing this is a risk. I know right-wingers who jumped at their first shot (and second shot, to round out this pun), too. But the stark, obvious correlation between "places that support politicians who downplay the pandemic" and "places that are suffering the worst from said pandemic" is a big fat yikes. In this case, the behavior encouraged by the authority figure in question—"this pandemic is NBD"—is exactly what's playing out IRL by that politician's supporters. Misinformation is easier to spread when you've got a trusted authority figure who's essentially opened that door already, such that nonsense that backs up that "side" already has a willing audience. A lot of folks in those places trusted Trump, and it's come back to hurt them in a big, big way.

The extent to which "is COVID real?/do vaccines work?/can I trust scientists and doctors?" has unnecessarily become a political issue here is beyond horrifying. Gonna yell out the obvious once more, into the void: None of the obvious solutions at this point (getting the vaccine, wearing masks, keeping some distance) should be political.
 
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gaasc

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Are you seriously not seeing a causal link between a cult leader praising all sorts of inadequate “miracle drugs” and his followers dying from the illness those are supposed to cure?

Hardcore Trumpists live in an alternate reality. There absolutely is a link between the consequences of this and the guy they worship and vote for.

What I see is yet another example of a complex problem pinned into one (reprehensible) person to make it simple.

As ever, the data may be accurate, but it is presented in a manner tailored for you (general) to reach that specific conclusion. to use @narf 's options, it's Does "something else" imply a higher likelihood for both?

Those something elses can include: The education system's lack of provisions to teach people to look for sources or examine contrasting points of view, the social media echo chamber that these people may find themselves. False balancing as defined by that lovely image @eizbaer posted and that I need to find an English version to keep for future reference, their friend's circle, their attitudes towards large cities (yes, even that, if it came from the city I don't want it). How familiar they are with health advances, if they have a passing interest in politics beyond "It's a big boat, why try to rock it?"

et cetera.

But no, it clearly can't be any of that, there has to be a direct link to Trump. The editorial staff demands it. Trump sells. And by still using him as the leading keyword in whatever argument anyone want to do they keep giving him the spotlight, guaranteeing his particular brand of "I can do anything" does not go away, ensuring the continued radicalization of everything into a political position. Great for outrage clicks, analytics and engagement metrics, a continued blight for anyone who wishes for stability and sensible discourse. I agree with @ninjacoco, I shall quite her directly, "None of the obvious solutions at this point (getting the vaccine, wearing masks, keeping some distance) should be political." But they are, and shit journalism like that, where the blame is placed on a joke politician that, if left alone and uncovered beyond what's necessary would be left treading water; and where you can't sneeze without it being a statement venerating a cult leader or, conversely, meaning that you want to nuke red states from orbit is most assuredly not helping matters.
 

ninjacoco

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What I see is yet another example of a complex problem pinned into one (reprehensible) person to make it simple.

As ever, the data may be accurate, but it is presented in a manner tailored for you (general) to reach that specific conclusion. to use @narf 's options, it's Does "something else" imply a higher likelihood for both?

Those something elses can include: The education system's lack of provisions to teach people to look for sources or examine contrasting points of view, the social media echo chamber that these people may find themselves. False balancing as defined by that lovely image @eizbaer posted and that I need to find an English version to keep for future reference, their friend's circle, their attitudes towards large cities (yes, even that, if it came from the city I don't want it). How familiar they are with health advances, if they have a passing interest in politics beyond "It's a big boat, why try to rock it?"

et cetera.

But no, it clearly can't be any of that, there has to be a direct link to Trump. The editorial staff demands it. Trump sells. And by still using him as the leading keyword in whatever argument anyone want to do they keep giving him the spotlight, guaranteeing his particular brand of "I can do anything" does not go away, ensuring the continued radicalization of everything into a political position. Great for outrage clicks, analytics and engagement metrics, a continued blight for anyone who wishes for stability and sensible discourse. I agree with @ninjacoco, I shall quite her directly, "None of the obvious solutions at this point (getting the vaccine, wearing masks, keeping some distance) should be political." But they are, and shit journalism like that, where the blame is placed on a joke politician that, if left alone and uncovered beyond what's necessary would be left treading water; and where you can't sneeze without it being a statement venerating a cult leader or, conversely, meaning that you want to nuke red states from orbit is most assuredly not helping matters.
Hi. Media person here. Different sector, but still the target of the same kinds of lines about how we're all dirty panic-mongers out for clicks, and still someone who's worked alongside folks who've moved on to more general-coverage outlets like the NYT and beyond. Miss me with this "journalism bad" schtick, please. Sure, there's heavily biased outlets and shows out there that stray way far out from reality in a way that's making things worse, but as far as a pretty moderate shop like the NYT goes, this is comically conspiratorial as to what actually happens in a newsroom.

Any respectable news shop (this includes the NYT, regardless of whether you agree with its usual bent or not, which frankly isn't as left-leaning as it often gets portrayed) has a hard wall between editorial and the business side. Edit's left to do their thing of reporting news (or on the opinion page, writing takes); business is tasked with selling it. Business can't just knock on Editorial's door and demand MORE TRUMP to sell ads, subscriptions or papers. Keeping those functions separate is something writers for reputable outlets fight hard to protect—hell, there's a good chance that editorial independence is written into the NYT's union contract as that's an industry-standard ask. (It's also why there's a list of too-friendly-to-the-brands-it-covers outlets I won't work for, but I digress.)

In this case, they're just looking at the really obvious, really depressing correlation between the political leanings of an area and its COVID stats. There's a lot more nuance in that piece than you're giving it credit for. Hell, even the subheading refers to it as a "pattern," and even the concluding remarks are all about how to meet vaccine-hesitant conservatives where they are on this issue—in terms that would resonate with them, on matters they care about. The intro to the data notes that they've noticed changes in different demographics over time as well, as in, they're not just singling out this one data point without looking at the broader picture. A demographic pattern never signifies a monolith anyway, and therefore, it's obvious that being pro- or anti-Trump isn't the only factor that influences people to do one thing or another in regards to COVID.

But it can't be ignored that Trump was one who pushed a lot of BS that wasn't honest about the danger of COVID, and people who put their trust in such leaders and followed that guidance are having an unnecessarily worse time with COVID than they should have. Election stats are one way to gauge political views with a sizable, reliable sample set, distributed geographically: Which areas trusted this guy at least through November '20, and how are they faring vs. elsewhere?

Unfortunately, I'd love to write Trump off as a joke and never think about him again, but he and the cult around him sure as hell aren't a joke for those of us who are stuck in places that aren't over that hangover yet. More people are weirdly aggressive with their political leanings on stuff far more often over the past few years, and it's frankly terrifying to see grown adults throw temper tantrums over little things like masks in schools, or long-settled questions like the '20 election results.
 
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Punisher Bass

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Just checking in to report that everyone in the Bass family is fine, no one got sick. Since boosters have been approved I'm looking into how to get my mom scheduled for one since she's over 65, I don't know if she has to stick with Moderna or if she can get Pfizer. I don't even know if IL is offering them yet.

Also, a reminder that this mother fucker is still a giant unwashed prolapsed asshole. https://www.kmov.com/news/missouri-...0-11ec-a05d-1b4fc6461bc2.html?block_id=990844
 

NecroJoe

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Just checking in to report that everyone in the Bass family is fine, no one got sick. Since boosters have been approved I'm looking into how to get my mom scheduled for one since she's over 65, I don't know if she has to stick with Moderna or if she can get Pfizer. I don't even know if IL is offering them yet.

Also, a reminder that this mother fucker is still a giant unwashed prolapsed asshole. https://www.kmov.com/news/missouri-...0-11ec-a05d-1b4fc6461bc2.html?block_id=990844

I've seen some reporting showing that, of the 3 main US vaccines, the Moderna is the one that retains more of its effectiveness longer, keeping at least 90% of its effectiveness after 6mo, even out-performing Pfizer, the other mRNA vaccine. I have zero idea how definite that info was, though.
 

calvinhobbes

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What I see is yet another example of a complex problem pinned into one (reprehensible) person to make it simple.

As ever, the data may be accurate, but it is presented in a manner tailored for you (general) to reach that specific conclusion. to use @narf 's options, it's Does "something else" imply a higher likelihood for both?

Those something elses can include: The education system's lack of provisions to teach people to look for sources or examine contrasting points of view, the social media echo chamber that these people may find themselves. False balancing as defined by that lovely image @eizbaer posted and that I need to find an English version to keep for future reference, their friend's circle, their attitudes towards large cities (yes, even that, if it came from the city I don't want it). How familiar they are with health advances, if they have a passing interest in politics beyond "It's a big boat, why try to rock it?"

et cetera.

But no, it clearly can't be any of that, there has to be a direct link to Trump. The editorial staff demands it. Trump sells. And by still using him as the leading keyword in whatever argument anyone want to do they keep giving him the spotlight, guaranteeing his particular brand of "I can do anything" does not go away, ensuring the continued radicalization of everything into a political position. Great for outrage clicks, analytics and engagement metrics, a continued blight for anyone who wishes for stability and sensible discourse. I agree with @ninjacoco, I shall quite her directly, "None of the obvious solutions at this point (getting the vaccine, wearing masks, keeping some distance) should be political." But they are, and shit journalism like that, where the blame is placed on a joke politician that, if left alone and uncovered beyond what's necessary would be left treading water; and where you can't sneeze without it being a statement venerating a cult leader or, conversely, meaning that you want to nuke red states from orbit is most assuredly not helping matters.
So basically, it’s inappropriate to name Trump as a main reason for the COVID numbers among his supporters, but it’s appropriate to name “the media” as the main reason for his power?

Sorry, but that doesn’t really wash. You can’t argue against single points of failure in one paragraph and for them in the next.
 

Dr_Grip

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Sadly a correlation between vaccination rate and voting preference is not to be denied in Germany as well, both by polls on the subject and by overlaying election and vaccination rate data (the more center-left leaning a region is, the higher the vaccination rate, the more far right, the lower, with self-reported vaccine uptake being as high as 98% with Green and Social Democrat voters, but below 50% with the populist right AfD).

And it's a pity. As Sweden and Norway are following Denmark in dropping all covid restrictions due to a high vaccination rate, and Finland "only" sitting out the 12-week interval between doses to join them, other countries like Germany and Austria are in a worse state. With single-issue covid denialist political parties gaining 1.4 and six percent of the vote in recent eletions and vaccination rates trailing other northern, middle, and southern european countries by five and more percent (67.8% with first shots putting Germany closer to the US's 65%), it seems like societies there, like in the US, have made a descision of wanting a "new normal" of masks, social distancing, and lockdowns, instead of getting back to a more disinfectant-using, home-working version of life as we knew it.

EDIT: And that's not even getting started on what @Fairlady reported from Latvia.
 
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