Covid 19 CRISIS

SirEdward

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
2,007
Location
Bologna, Italy
Car(s)
VW Polo mkVI
Here's the New York Times article about Sweden. It hit the elderly hard due to inadequate precautions at nursing homes, but the death toll among everyone else was comparable without tanking the economy.
It has many unforeseen repercussions.
How much of Sweden economy will not be stormed by the global coronavirus economic fallout?

A loss of 7%-10% in GDP is the estimate of the Swedish Central Bank in 2020.
For comparison, the EU estimates, for Italy's GDP, a 10% loss.

Was that little difference worth all those preventable deaths?

Other than that, have you read the numbers I posted you in the other thread, comparing Sweden to its neighbours? What do you think of that tenfold increase in cases and deaths?

The Swedish method has only shown to be SOMEWHAT workable in Sweden; it was not a success, but Sweden managed to be on par with the rest of Europe. The US, Brazil and all the other countries that tried to do so have been swamped by Covid-19. What do you think of this?
 

DaBoom

Worlds fastest Amish
DONOR
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
1,815
Location
Kouvostoliitto, Finland
Car(s)
Various BMWs, a Swift cabrio, Benelli TreK
From one of the neighbors, an estimate of 7% GDP drop for this year was announced today for Finnish economy. So very much in the same range as Sweden, only with less death.
 
Last edited:

TobiasG

Well-Known Member
DONOR
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
1,059
Location
Oslo
Car(s)
116 GTV, 916 GTV, 952 Giulia
As another neighbouring country, our GDP is estimated to drop 5.5% this year. We locked down, Sweden didn't. We have 238 death as of today, Sweden got 4542. And you think Sweden got it right?
 

RdKetchup

Snow Mexican Surender Monkey
DONOR
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
4,798
Location
Montreal, Qc, Canada
Car(s)
FoRS, Japanese touring triple
There is finally a downward trend in new cases in our province, with the number of new cases declining, and the number of active cases actually going down.

Quebec-20200604.png
Quebec-delta-20200604.png
 

argatoga

Can't Start His Wank
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
18,193
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'13 Moto Guzzi V7, '08 Pontiac Solstice GXP
It has many unforeseen repercussions.
How much of Sweden economy will not be stormed by the global coronavirus economic fallout?

A loss of 7%-10% in GDP is the estimate of the Swedish Central Bank in 2020.
For comparison, the EU estimates, for Italy's GDP, a 10% loss.

Was that little difference worth all those preventable deaths?

Other than that, have you read the numbers I posted you in the other thread, comparing Sweden to its neighbours? What do you think of that tenfold increase in cases and deaths?

The Swedish method has only shown to be SOMEWHAT workable in Sweden; it was not a success, but Sweden managed to be on par with the rest of Europe. The US, Brazil and all the other countries that tried to do so have been swamped by Covid-19. What do you think of this?
We'll find out soon enough, the protests in the US have undone anything the stay at home order accomplished. The protesters that march down my street haven't kept social distancing. We will see a huge spike in a week or so if stay at did anything outside of damaging the economy.
 

jack_christie

Forum Addict
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
5,270

SirEdward

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
2,007
Location
Bologna, Italy
Car(s)
VW Polo mkVI
We'll find out soon enough, the protests in the US have undone anything the stay at home order accomplished. The protesters that march down my street haven't kept social distancing. We will see a huge spike in a week or so if stay at did anything outside of damaging the economy.
There is nothing to find out. Sweden's economy is going down similarly to what is happening in other countries who actually locked down.

They bet and paid in lives, actual lives of actual people, and they basically got on par with others. They would have reached the same economic results by locking down, but they would have saved thousands of lives. Thousands of real people. Human beings.

They failed. They admitted it.

Good thing that they admitted it; it is impressive that they were so prepared that they managed without lockdown what normally the other countries managed with it. But they failed nonetheless.
 

argatoga

Can't Start His Wank
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
18,193
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'13 Moto Guzzi V7, '08 Pontiac Solstice GXP
There is nothing to find out. Sweden's economy is going down similarly to what is happening in other countries who actually locked down.

They bet and paid in lives, actual lives of actual people, and they basically got on par with others. They would have reached the same economic results by locking down, but they would have saved thousands of lives. Thousands of real people. Human beings.

They failed. They admitted it.

Good thing that they admitted it; it is impressive that they were so prepared that they managed without lockdown what normally the other countries managed with it. But they failed nonetheless.
Their economy isn't as hard hit as others. Not all business needs International trade. In the rest of the world, bars and restaurants could have stayed open without punishing the lower classes. The deaths where primarily the elderly, not the working class who has mostly been screwed over.
 

H0nzik

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Messages
911
Location
Prague, Czech Republic
Car(s)
Focus 2.0 TDCi, MX-5 NC 2.0
The working class in the US got screwed over mainly because of the US labour laws, not simply just because of the lockdown. No other country has seen such a massive surge in unemployment in such a short timeframe. Even in Sweden the restaurants have seen a significant decline in revenues as many people were actually socially distancing themselves voluntarily, which is also why the death rate wasn't quite as bad as it could be. Anyway in Q1, the impact on the economy was mostly around the unavailability of components from China and exports to China, and really just the last 2 weeks of March were directly impacted by the lockdowns in Europe, the Q2 results will be more interesting.
 

SirEdward

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
2,007
Location
Bologna, Italy
Car(s)
VW Polo mkVI
Their economy isn't as hard hit as others.
On what basis do you say such a thing?
Have you read what I have written before?

A loss of 7%-10% in GDP is the estimate of the Swedish Central Bank in 2020.
For comparison, the EU estimates, for Italy's GDP, a 10% loss.
Plus, you've got other users telling you that their Countries are faring similar or better than Sweden, economically, even though they locked down.

How do you explain that?
 

argatoga

Can't Start His Wank
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
18,193
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'13 Moto Guzzi V7, '08 Pontiac Solstice GXP
On what basis do you say such a thing?
Have you read what I have written before?



Plus, you've got other users telling you that their Countries are faring similar or better than Sweden, economically, even though they locked down.

How do you explain that?
If things are similar without the lockdown, then it didn't do anything. Sweden fucked up with the elderly, where they saw the most deaths. In this country, unemployment skyrocketed after working class people were forced out of work.

One week, if we see a huge surge in the US due to the protests then I am wrong and the lockdown worked. In regards to the disease.
 

SirEdward

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
2,007
Location
Bologna, Italy
Car(s)
VW Polo mkVI
If things are similar without the lockdown, then it didn't do anything.
It isn't similar at all: look at the data from Denmark, Finland, Norway. Those are the benchmarks for Sweden, not Italy or Spain. Or the UK.

Sweden fucked up with the elderly, where they saw the most deaths.
Many did, but this alone does not explain the difference between Sweden and its culturally and socially comparable neighbours.

In this country, unemployment skyrocketed after working class people were forced out of work.
In the US, the unemployment skyrocketed because you have no form of protection for workers in scenarios like this. It is a huge error in management: implementing ways of avoiding people losing their income abruptly is useful, like having reserves in the cellar during a snowstorm.

Having a system like the US may have advantages, but it also has huge disadvantages, like this one. You (and everyone else around the world, for that matter) have to change and adapt to resist and be resilient to events like this, otherwise, someone else will do better and gain a competitive advantage.

One week, if we see a huge surge in the US due to the protests then I am wrong and the lockdown worked. In regards to the disease.
The US numbers are... not that good... 20k new cases and 1k deaths per day, and it has been going on for a while. Today, it's 30k. Again. The situation is by far not under control.
 

CraigB

Ich bin ein Kartoffel
DONOR
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
13,592
Location
SWMO
Car(s)
Mustang SVO - Nissan Frontier Pro-4X & Altima
102824641_10101900044263482_2942384624192904880_o.jpg



A former classmate of Mrs CraigB is a reporter for several of local papers. A friend he met in university makes up these (and many other infographs) each day. This one in particular to me shows how Missouri is doing in snuffing out the spread of Covid-19. I've noticed over the last few weeks that we are not doing a good job. I knew opening the state up in early May was not the right way forward, but at this point I don't think you'd convince anyone in the state to "close down" again. We certainly not out of the woods yet, but life is pretty well back to "normal".
 

jack_christie

Forum Addict
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
5,270
Satellite images of Wuhan may suggest coronavirus was spreading as early as August
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...-was-spreading-as-early-as-august/ar-BB15dy6n

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...hers/story?id=71123270&cid=social_twitter_wnt



Coronavirus: Number of deaths 'could have been halved if lockdown introduced a week earlier'

Coronavirus deaths could have been reduced "by at least half" if the UK had gone into lockdown a week earlier, one of government's former key advisers has told MPs.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...f-lockdown-introduced-a-week-earlier-12004222
 
Last edited:

argatoga

Can't Start His Wank
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
18,193
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'13 Moto Guzzi V7, '08 Pontiac Solstice GXP
How many deaths could have been reduced if the protests didn't happen?
 
Top