Covid 19 CRISIS

There has to be some middle ground between "the Chinese getting shit done" and the way it sometimes happens in Finland. We've been dealing with an invasive bird species (Cormorant) taking over entire islands in the archipelago with their poop until there's nothing more than dead trees left. When hunters apply for permits to hunt them, the environmental enthusiasts that are in charge of these things keep moving the application between different desk drawers until season is over.
 
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My sister and her brood have all recovered, so far no one shows any lingering symptoms. As always I'm still wearing masks everywhere I go, but I am legit shocked at how few people I see out there are doing the same. Yeah, it's a pain in the ass to keep doing it, especially after three years of it, I get it. But this shit isn't going away and continues to evolve because people are slacking off and catching it.
 
New-old study from the Lancet:
Past SARS-CoV-2 infection protection against re-infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis

protection against severe disease remained high for all variants, with 90·2% (69·7–97·5) for ancestral, alpha, and delta variants, and 88·9% (84·7–90·9) for omicron BA.1 at 40 weeks.
The immunity conferred by past infection should be weighed alongside protection from vaccination when assessing future disease burden from COVID-19, providing guidance on when individuals should be vaccinated, and designing policies that mandate vaccination for workers or restrict access, on the basis of immune status, to settings where the risk of transmission is high, such as travel and high-occupancy indoor settings.



View: https://youtu.be/hzv8g1DAyDA
 
"Public health lied" what a nice, balanced thumbnail
 
I now watched the beginning of the video. I feel sickened. No one ever claimed that natural infection would "count for nothing" as this awful excuse for a human being in the video (I can't stretch how awful I find his tonality) claims.
Thing is, your risk of getting really sick, needing a hospital bed, or dying, when getting naturally infected with prior vaccination is a lot lower. No one ever claimed vaccination would be superior to natural immunity after the fact. At least no one from all the institutions listed by the person in the video.
 
I now watched the beginning of the video. I feel sickened. No one ever claimed that natural infection would "count for nothing" as this awful excuse for a human being in the video (I can't stretch how awful I find his tonality) claims.
Thing is, your risk of getting really sick, needing a hospital bed, or dying, when getting naturally infected with prior vaccination is a lot lower. No one ever claimed vaccination would be superior to natural immunity after the fact. At least no one from all the institutions listed by the person in the video.

His tone is like that because, here in the US, natural infection didn't count. In the US, there were no Covid Health Certificates like there were in the EU. I've mentioned this before in this thread. As a result, healthcare workers, military personnel, etc were required to vaccinate or lose their jobs regardless of if they recovered from Covid or not. Also, If you had prior infection/natural infection you were not allowed into certain restaurants and venues because these places only accepted vaccination cards. There were no provisions for people who recovered from Covid. So, essentially, natural infection did "count for nothing". Vinay (the guy in the video) is specifically talking about this issue.
 
So in the end it's about using science to prove the right to refuse science by refusing vaccination. I can not get behind that, but maybe my freedom and liberty senses are disturbed.
 
So in the end it's about using science to prove the right to refuse science by refusing vaccination. I can not get behind that, but maybe my freedom and liberty senses are disturbed.
In the end it is about a government accepting one form of immunization and ignoring another that has been proven again and again to be just as good.
 
A policy to only accept documented vaccinations may be a completely sensible tool to drive vaccination rates, not "lying".

What turns me off from engaging with the argument is that it's framed as a malicious government deliberately cheating people to their disadvantage.
 
A policy to only accept documented vaccinations may be a completely sensible tool to drive vaccination rates, not "lying".
Governments around the world said that vaccination was about public health. Turns out that prior infection is as good as, if not better, than vaccination. This is not a new revelation. We knew this from the Israeli study, we knew this from the CDC study. In fact, the Lancet study above cites 65 other studies supporting the same. The US government ignored that, which resulted in people being fired and ostracized. All the while, having no scientific reasoning to consider people with prior infection a public health threat. So, the policy you speak of is strictly about a blanket vaccination rate and not about each individual's immunization/health status.

What turns me off from engaging with the argument is that it's framed as a malicious government deliberately cheating people to their disadvantage.
So, let me go back to your issue with Vinay's tone. No, one seemed to a have problem with tone when various individuals/media/ governments were advocating to ostracize people from society based on vaccination status. Turned out that vaccinated people still could contract and spread the virus. Yet, it was repeated that it was the unvaccinated who were "killing grandma". How you feel about Vinay above is how I feel about every person who advocated to outcast and/or took joy in the death of the people that they disagreed with.

Edit: Just a note, Vinay is vaccinated and boosted and advocates for vaccination.
 
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Here's what I observed through all this:

Vaccinating was the one sure-fire way to say "yup, you most likely won't pass this fast spreading virus on to others, if you do it shouldn't be full strength, and you won't die if the vaccine doesn't train your body well enough/your body doesn't respond as well as hoped.“ I know what's a really intelligent idea, lets make doctors appointments during a pandemic that killed people, taking up space to "just see if my immune system is strong enough after being sick with covid." Hell, none of my vaccines for covid was done at a doctors office, they were all done at the local pharmacies.

Not vaccinating would mean individual testing for absolutely every person who had covid to see how their immune system is. My father argued this with me as well and for him, his antibodies had a higher score than average which is good, however, my mom and older brother's results most likely would not be the same as there is so many other variables, such as how much they were exposed, how their body will fight it, whats the lasting antibodies and lastly, how long they will last.

Seeing how both of you are responding now, is proving the point as to why the direction went the way it did. Most people will go "oh, so if I just get the virus on purpose, i don't need to be vaccinated!" I thought we were smarter than that, but we clearly are not. Suddenly this time around apparently vaccinations are looked at as scary like we're a bunch of toddlers, or it's unsafe like we haven't had vaccines before. And before anyone says this was government taking control or corporations doing the same thing, polio vaccinations were done in school without parents consent, it was in the name of public health safety and guess what, it worked.

[side quest]I am downright disgusted how through this, my family went from trusting doctors and vaccines as a source of well-being improvement because, newsflash, doctors are fucking professionals in their field of work, to saying they're all quacks and what can be researched online is much better.[/side quest]

My father was nearly hospitalized because he chose to continue going to work and thinking this was "just a flu" to which he infected my mother. My older brother worked with my dad at the time so he got sick with it as well, but is too proud to say it. My brother and my father drove to work together and worked in close proximity, there's no fucking way he didn't get it, even with his lifelong asthma.


In the end, were some people's immune systems just as good as getting vaccinated? Probably, should we just get out on a platform and say that, thinking everyone will "do the right thing" whatever that may be? Fuck no, we all still look both ways down a one way street.
 
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Here's what I observed through all this:

Vaccinating was the one sure-fire way to say "yup, you most likely won't pass this fast spreading virus on to others,
People still passed the virus whether they are/were vaccinated or not.

if you do it shouldn't be full strength, and you won't die if the vaccine doesn't train your body well enough/your body doesn't respond as well as hoped. I know what's a really intellegent idea, lets make doctors appointments during a pandemic that killed people, taking up space to "just see if my immune system is strong enough after being sick with covid." Hell, none of my vaccines for covid was done at a doctors office, they were all done at the local pharmacies.
I have never heard of anyone doing this.

Most people will go
"oh, so if I just get the virus on purpose, i don't need to be vaccinated!"
This is the second time someone on this board has suggested that I or anything that I posted is saying to go get the virus on purpose. There is difference in someone getting the virus and a person who got it incidentally. On this occasion, I am talking about individuals with prior infection.

[side quest]I am downright disgusted how through this, my family went from trusting doctors and vaccines as a source of well-being improvement because, newsflash, doctors are fucking professionals in their field of work, to saying they're all quacks and what can be researched online is much better.[/side quest]
My side quest: I am unvaccinated, I have friends who are unvaccinated. I also have friends who are vaccinated and family members who are vaccinated too. We are all still friends and family. There was never any fallout. No forcing of views. Why? Because we are friends and family. We go beyond a virus. This whole thing came and went for us.

My father was nearly hospitalized because he chose to continue going to work and thinking this was "just a flu" to which he infected my mother. My older brother worked with my dad at the time so he got sick with it as well, but is too proud to say it. My brother and my father drove to work together and worked in close proximity, there's no fucking way he didn't get it, even with his lifelong asthma.


In the end, were some people's immune systems just as good as getting vaccinated? Probably, should we just get out on a platform and say that, thinking everyone will "do the right thing" whatever that may be? Fuck no, we all still look both ways down a one way street.
Sorry to hear about your father.

So, I will tell you my story. I'm unvaccinated. Got Covid back December 2021. Got a fever(thought it was something I ate) for a few hours and then a sniffle for a week. I was never anywhere close to being hospitalized. I'm 47 with no comorbidities. I came through Covid easier than many vaccinated people. One size does not fit all. But do I tell people to do what I do? No. Why? Because it is their health and their choice.

BUT the current discuss is not about me, It is about people with prior infection being fired from jobs etc even though they are just as protected as the vaccinated.
 
If what Mally says about the US Government handling of the thing, than it is understandable why he is upset.

It seems to me a case of considering - all - the aspects of the problem before making a judgment. I am vaccinated (4 times), fragile with fragile family (all vaccinated multiple times). I have had my fair share of work to do to understand people who didn't want the vaccine. It really seemed to me like a useless added difficulty on my life, on top of the pandemic and measures to avoid contagion.

I had to make that effort, though, as I have multiple good friends, or people I deeply respect, who simpkly refused to vaccinate. Why? discounting the idiotic reasons (a couple of them), each one had a reasonable motivation. Did those motivtions hold up to reality, in the end? Some of them did, which shows that they were not "wrong" per se. Would I have done the same, knowing in hindsight that it could be good but not knowing whether I would be in the group that had it good? No.

Most important of all: have I fall out of friendship or respect for them? Mostly not, because I respected and listened to them just as much as they did with me. And that's what counts. As a practical tool, we bsically didn't meet in person for long periods.

Unfortunately, not all the population could have done what they have done, all at once. It would have been disastrous. Some - had - to take the vaccine. We know what would have happened otherwise. People who refused to take the vaccine do owe something to those who accepted, just as people who got the vaccine need to understand there is not just one way or one solution that fits all.

In the end, I think the idea of considering a past infection as a shot of the vaccine, like we did in Italy, was a good choice. At the same time, I think it was a good choice to refuse access to certain places or areas to unvaccinated people, at least for a while. No choice is free when everybody is involved: I accepted (with a little discontent) that they could put me at greater risk, they accepted (with a little discontent) to being subject to temporary restrictions and limitations. I was in full favour of lifting those limitations when the risk was reduced enough. I was very happy when they got healthy again after getting infected.

I lost respect of those (friends or not) who wanted to have their cake and eat it too: no vaccine and free access to everything, everywhere, at all time, because they were stupid and selfish.

In the end, it's a matter of listening, understanding, finding a good solutions and respecting other people.
 
People still passed the virus whether they are/were vaccinated or not.
Naturally, but less so, it won’t happen as much. What i want to know is if the strength of said virus id the same since your now trained immune system can fight it enough.

I have never heard of anyone doing this.


This is the second time someone on this board has suggested that I or anything that I posted is saying to go get the virus on purpose. There is difference in someone getting the virus and a person who got it incidentally. On this occasion, I am talking about individuals with prior infection.

I did, it was a stupid idea. The reason why I react the way I do is my experience had been through family members and friends who felt alienated and did not understand why they were held away from doing everything else. I had coworkers that were openly vocal about being forbidden from attending group work functions or traveling internationally while being unvaccinated and never having been sick yet. So, I am used to that way of thinking.
 
Hi...

So we still have a mask mandate...
 
I'm pretty sure it's not covid because I've tested negative for it 3 or 4 times now, but several weeks ago I came down with what I thought was a cold and it's still with me, so I think it's actually RSV. It started off with a sore throat, then muted smells and taste, then a ton of coughing and hacking up thick chunky shit in various colors. I couldn't even sleep because of non stop coughing fits, but I never had any trouble breathing or the feeling of weight on my chest or any other covid signs.

20230216_141059.jpg

After a very late night trip out to the only 24 hour pharmacy in town I had enough OTC meds to get me through the worst of it. I'm much better now but the cough still lingers.

Anyway, I was amused that even with all the precautions I take, this shit was the first thing to get through, you'd think if an N95 can stop covid it would stop a cold/flu/RSV without issue.
 
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