Ownership Verified: Cursed 92 Camaro is back...

[SoxXpupPeT]

Wow, I cant believe how bad that roller lifter looks! i was under the mistaken impression that they were damn near impossible to really fuck up that bad!

I think in the long term I'll end up with a 5.3L truck motor in this car... but that's whenever this motor dies, and hopefully it will last a very long time. Hopefully by that time I'll have the mony and tools to fab up a turbo setup.

And my clutch is DEFINITELY slipping pretty bad. When I get the money a new clutch is gonna go in. Good thing I learned on a free crappy clutch though. Dont want to burn up a brand new clutch because Im a newbie.

Also, I've got some kind of weird alternator issue. It's not charging at all. Replaced teh alternator, and I'm still not getting anything more than 12v across the battery posts while running. I'm gonna try something tomorrow to measure the voltage coming out of the alternator to see if I can source where the problem is... but I'm leaning towards an electrical issue somewhere, but every connection I've tried is okay. So who knows? My voltage gauge in the car is reading all the way to the left right now, though. Probably as far to the right as the gauge will go into the red zone, and you can clearly see in the vid where I'm driving around, the voltage is fine.

I think this has something to do with the fact that I managed to screw up my fuse box the other day... I'm gonna have to investigate farther.

yeah man the roller was GONE! along with all of my rockers lol not fun. i was having problems with a slipping clutch twice so far. i say practice alittle more then when the time comes you get the flywheel resurfaced and get yourself a nice clutch. im running a spec stage 2 which is good for 600 lbs of torque. plenty for me for right now the only complaint i have is that its abit chattery. but all specs do that. but when its warmed up it grabs like a mofo and a half!

witht he alternator make sure you have all ther terminals going to there right spot on the starter. its hard to diagnose without actually seeing the whole set up. but i hope you figure it out soon. running on no charge can only hurt the engine unfortunately :\

id love to be running a 5.3 with low compression > id say youd make a good choice with running an engine like that in the future. because i would like to do the same lol

 

[InfernalVortex]

yeah man the roller was GONE! along with all of my rockers lol not fun. i was having problems with a slipping clutch twice so far. i say practice alittle more then when the time comes you get the flywheel resurfaced and get yourself a nice clutch. im running a spec stage 2 which is good for 600 lbs of torque. plenty for me for right now the only complaint i have is that its abit chattery. but all specs do that. but when its warmed up it grabs like a mofo and a half!

witht he alternator make sure you have all ther terminals going to there right spot on the starter. its hard to diagnose without actually seeing the whole set up. but i hope you figure it out soon. running on no charge can only hurt the engine unfortunately :\

id love to be running a 5.3 with low compression > id say youd make a good choice with running an engine like that in the future. because i would like to do the same lol

How does the alternator circuit work? All teh connections seem to be fine so I'm at a complete loss as to why it's not charging. Two alternators now too. So it's not the alternator itself. It was working fine a few days ago.

This all started when i wired up my fan. I'm gonna try and put my fuse for the fan back in the fuse box in case that somehow messed with it (I have my switched power for the fan relay coming from there) but it may have something to do with my original fan wiring out of hte fuse box. I put it in one of the IGN power slots, and as soon as I turned the key to on I got a big blue spark, and neither of my IGN slots work anymore. It also blew the fuse to my gauges (Which is right next to it, yours is probably the same). I suppose it shorted across hence the spark.

So I'm not really sure how that could be related, but it started at the same time. Before that I had good voltage and a good battery. Ever since I got no charge. So Im at a loss.

 

[Spectre]

How does the alternator circuit work? All teh connections seem to be fine so I'm at a complete loss as to why it's not charging. Two alternators now too. So it's not the alternator itself. It was working fine a few days ago.

This all started when i wired up my fan. I'm gonna try and put my fuse for the fan back in the fuse box in case that somehow messed with it (I have my switched power for the fan relay coming from there) but it may have something to do with my original fan wiring out of hte fuse box. I put it in one of the IGN power slots, and as soon as I turned the key to on I got a big blue spark, and neither of my IGN slots work anymore. It also blew the fuse to my gauges (Which is right next to it, yours is probably the same). I suppose it shorted across hence the spark.

So I'm not really sure how that could be related, but it started at the same time. Before that I had good voltage and a good battery. Ever since I got no charge. So Im at a loss.

Since you couldn't be bothered to reply to me, all I'm going to say is check your voltage at terminal 1 (on the old SI alternators) or terminal L (if you have a CS-series alternator).

 

[InfernalVortex]

Since you couldn't be bothered to reply to me, all I'm going to say is check your voltage at terminal 1 (on the old SI alternators) or terminal L (if you have a CS-series alternator).

I didn't even see it?

Did you make sure the sense/charge wire is connected and that the idiot light hasn't burned out (which can cause it to not work)?

Which is the sense/charge wire? And I have no idea how to check the idiot light.

I am suspicious if the sense/charge wirei s problem myself since the alt seems to be making good connections to the battery. I just dont know which wire is the sense/charge wire.

I've got a red wire and gray wire coming out of a plug, and a big red wire coming out of the back of the alternator on a stud. Both of them are showing no resistance to the positive terminal on the battery when I test. The gray wire, I think, goes to the gauge which reads, I'm pretty sure, zero. I think you're barking up the right tree given my fuse box problems the otehr day... but Im not sure where to proceed from here.

Since you couldn't be bothered to reply to me, all I'm going to say is check your voltage at terminal 1 (on the old SI alternators) or terminal L (if you have a CS-series alternator).

Not even sure which is which yet.

One of the red ones goes to the starter, and one goes to the battery terminal. The ones to the starter all end up terminating in a box near the battery that serves as a 12v power source post. That gray one goes back down to where the two meet to be loomed nicely, and it then it curves back around and goes to the interior. What are the odds that gray one goes through some sort of sensor circuit in line with teh gauge?

But even if that's teh case... I didnt do anything to that wire. It was the two ign power ports in the fuse box that got weird. I dont understand how those would affect the voltage gauge.

 

[Spectre]

I didn't even see it?

Typical Camaro driver; PAY ATTENTION!

Which is the sense/charge wire? And I have no idea how to check the idiot light.

I am suspicious if the sense/charge wirei s problem myself since the alt seems to be making good connections to the battery. I just dont know which wire is the sense/charge wire.

I've got a red wire and gray wire coming out of a plug, and a big red wire coming out of the back of the alternator on a stud. Both of them are showing no resistance to the positive terminal on the battery when I test. The gray wire, I think, goes to the gauge which reads, I'm pretty sure, zero. I think you're barking up the right tree given my fuse box problems the otehr day... but Im not sure where to proceed from here.

Not even sure which is which yet.

Strangely enough, GM figured there would be people who had problems with this, so the connector is actually labelled - either numbers/letters molded into the plug itself or stamped onto the alternator body.

Edit: Okay, that's the CS-series alternator. The big red wire in that connector is the S terminal. Going from that end to the other, it should be S, F, L, P. Here is the wiring diagram for the CS-series plug:

Either F or L can be hooked up, but not both at the same time.

Edit 2: Power is supplied to either the F or L terminal from the interior from the ignition through a (surprise) fuse. If you blew up your fusebox, that's probably the issue. If you do not have an idiot light in the car (some GM's don't) you probably have a gauge instead, in which case you'll have nothing connected to the F terminal and the wire will be connected to the L terminal. Turn the car on (but don't start it) and see if you have any voltage at L. If not, check F. If nothing on either, start checking for continuity, you may have popped the fuse or the fusible link.

(Why is it that I know more about Camaro electrical systems than most Camaro owners? )

 

[SoxXpupPeT]

you might of blown a fuse able link somewhere in the system. throw a multi meter on the back of the alternator and see what amperage shes putting out along with what voltage you have coming from it. you could just have 2 bad alternators. its happened before

 

[Spectre]

you might of blown a fuse able link somewhere in the system. throw a multi meter on the back of the alternator and see what amperage shes putting out along with what voltage you have coming from it. you could just have 2 bad alternators. its happened before

I'm sorry, but you've just earned this:

Why? Because you just set up your fellow Camaro owner for a "hold muh beer 'n watch this!" moment.

Consider this:
Most multimeters have a maximum amp rating of 40 or 50 amps.

The CS130 alternator on the 92 has a nominal output of 105 amps.

Guess what happens when you plug a 50A max rated device into a 105A supply.

If he's lucky, the fuse will blow and the multimeter will die.

If he's not lucky, the fuse won't blow or he won't have a fused multimeter and it will either explode or burst into flames.

 

[SoxXpupPeT]

I'm sorry, but you've just earned this:

Why? Because you just set up your fellow Camaro owner for a "hold muh beer 'n watch this!" moment.

Consider this:
Most multimeters have a maximum amp rating of 40 or 50 amps.

The CS130 alternator on the 92 has a nominal output of 105 amps.

Guess what happens when you plug a 50A max rated device into a 105A supply.

If he's lucky, the fuse will blow and the multimeter will die.

If he's not lucky, the fuse won't blow or he won't have a fused multimeter and it will either explode or burst into flames.

ok. you an still check the voltage coming out of the back of the alternator right ? if its less then 13 you have a problem with it. and FYI i dont drink beer

 

[Spectre]

Yeah, checking voltage is fine. Amperage, not so much.

 

[SoxXpupPeT]

Yeah, checking voltage is fine. Amperage, not so much.

sea im not tha dumd

 

[InfernalVortex]

(Why is it that I know more about Camaro electrical systems than most Camaro owners? )

I figured a fuse blew somewhere, but Im at a loss as to where it is. Every fuse in the fuse box is fine. Im really not sure I want to rip apart the column to find it since it goes up to the ignition switch and from there... I have no idea.

 

[Spectre]

Have you checked for voltage as I suggested?

 

[InfernalVortex]

Have you checked for voltage as I suggested?

I get nothing. Clearly the fuse on that wire is blown... I have no idea where that wire goes though.

 

[Spectre]

Did your car start out life as a 5.0 or 5.7, and did it have TPI or TBI?

 

[InfernalVortex]

Did your car start out life as a 5.0 or 5.7, and did it have TPI or TBI?

5.0 TBI.

It has a gauge so it's the gauge port on the plug that has thew ire.... but I've got no idea where that wire goes. I can follow it to the firewall where it disappears into the harness. And crawling around under the dash like an overturned crab has gotten me nowhere.

I'm sure it goes to the ignition switch, like the two red wires from the IGN power source slots on the fusebox... but I have no idea where those fuses could be. I looked for fuses but couldnt find any.

 

[Spectre]

That wire (according to the wiring diagram... you *do* have a non-Haynes wiring diagram, right?) doesn't go to the gauge; GM just plugged that into voltage somewhere and left out the charging light. According to the wiring diagram, you should have a red wire and a brown wire coming off that connector. (Are you sure yours is gray and not some screwed up GM shade of brown?)

First, check for voltage with the car on but not running at the red wire on the connector. (You better be using a digital multimeter and not a damn continuity light...) Do you have voltage there?

Edit: Since you appear to have wandered off, here's a diagram. GM calls the alternator a "generator".

 

[InfernalVortex]

Sorry Im dealing with a breakup at the moment. Seems like tehse bitches always wait til the worst time to drop the bomb on you. Whatever.

Anyway, I meant that i have a gauge, not an idiot light so that wire is going into the F port. But it doesnt really matter. That wire looks pretty gray to me. It could be GM brown... but I dont know. Even in the pic it looks pretty gray.

I've been staring at taht diagram for a while trying to make heads or tails of it. Im not sure what the block beside "Generator" is... teh ignition switch? Seems like the ignition switch is a little farther down from that to me...

Should I be taking note that the line from the alternator goes to the fan fuse? Because taht fuse IS pulled at the moment. I meant to throw it back in today to see if it changed anything but I've had a rough day. Im currently using the 12v power from there to power my fan relay. I figured I didnt need a fuse there anymore (I have a fuse in line with my relay).

Also, I'm getting 12 v out of the red wire from the plug with the key set to on.

Im considering just converting it over to a single wire alternator and skipping the bullshit. But maybe replacing the fan fuse will fix it after all. I need to try that tomorrow. I mean I pulled the ECM fuse to use as my fan relay's switched power at first, and the starter wouldnt do ANYTHING. Who knew that pulling the ECM fuse would disable the starter? There's no ECM in the car... But it cared anyway. I just dont understand why a wire from the alternator would go to the fan fuse in the fuse box... But that is something I changed sicne it was working...


And there are SEVERAL fusible links in all the positive wires to teh battery... I tested and and every wire, painstakingly, individually, and as a group, and I've got no continuity problems at all. I'm getting no resistance from either wire to the positive terminal on the battery, and not from any other wire that's squeezed down into the starter either.

 

[Spectre]

Anyway, I meant that i have a gauge, not an idiot light so that wire is going into the F port. But it doesnt really matter. That wire looks pretty gray to me. It could be GM brown... but I dont know. Even in the pic it looks pretty gray.

Wouldn't be the first GM car that had mismatching wiring colors. I had a 68 Cadillac. None of the wires matched the diagram's colors. Thank you, General Morons.

I've been staring at taht diagram for a while trying to make heads or tails of it. Im not sure what the block beside "Generator" is... teh ignition switch? Seems like the ignition switch is a little farther down from that to me...

Thing to remember about wiring diagrams is that they're not usually intended to represent actual distances between components - they're just basically "logical" diagrams to show how the circuit is constructed. And yes, that's the ignition switch.

Should I be taking note that the line from the alternator goes to the fan fuse? Because taht fuse IS pulled at the moment. I meant to throw it back in today to see if it changed anything but I've had a rough day. Im currently using the 12v power from there to power my fan relay. I figured I didnt need a fuse there anymore (I have a fuse in line with my relay).

Um, yeah, I'd put the fan fuse back in....

Also, I'm getting 12 v out of the red wire from the plug with the key set to on.

Good, that tells us that your fusible links are okay.

Im considering just converting it over to a single wire alternator and skipping the bullshit. But maybe replacing the fan fuse will fix it after all. I need to try that tomorrow. I mean I pulled the ECM fuse to use as my fan relay's switched power at first, and the starter wouldnt do ANYTHING. Who knew that pulling the ECM fuse would disable the starter? There's no ECM in the car... But it cared anyway. I just dont understand why a wire from the alternator would go to the fan fuse in the fuse box... But that is something I changed sicne it was working...

As for why GM did that? Dude, it's GM. There's multiple reasons why they're bankrupt. Stupid design like that is part of it. :lol:

That said, lots of manufacturers use specific fuses and specific wires for more than one purpose. This is why you should obtain a wiring diagram before you start hacking into the wiring for any purpose - you can actually set your car on fire by screwing it up.

And there are SEVERAL fusible links in all the positive wires to teh battery... I tested and and every wire, painstakingly, individually, and as a group, and I've got no continuity problems at all. I'm getting no resistance from either wire to the positive terminal on the battery, and not from any other wire that's squeezed down into the starter either.

Good, though we knew from the 12V on the big red wire that you didn't need to worry about that.

 

[InfernalVortex]

That said, lots of manufacturers use specific fuses and specific wires for more than one purpose. This is why you should obtain a wiring diagram before you start hacking into the wiring for any purpose - you can actually set your car on fire by screwing it up.

Pulling a seemingly unnecessary fuse to tap a 12v source is hardly "hacking into the wiring". The wiring was already hacked into when I bought the car, hence my needing to get a proper relay in there.

Good, though we knew from the 12V on the big red wire that you didn't need to worry about that.

I tested resistance from both to the pos battery terminal first thing this morning. I knew it was connecting. But if it was connecting then that clearly wasn't my problem to begin with. The thing is I have something like 4 or 5 wires coming off my starter, each with their own fusible links, and all their ends are tightened down to the same posts on one end or another, and have wires splitting off of some of those. I don't know where some of those go, so I tested each individually thinking if one of those was bad the circuit would still complete itself from the alt to the battery, according to my "test", but it may be interfering with something else farther down the circuit. like maybe my fuse box. Hence I checked each one.

 

[Spectre]

That was more a general comment regarding hacking the wiring, not specific to your setup. Keep in mind, though, that there's a lot of cars that mislabel fuses. There's one of the Nissans that has a fuse labelled "AUX". If that pops or you pull it, the car won't move because that's the circuit that feeds the transmission computer.

Though GM's documentation isn't the best, you could be worse off. You could have to decipher this.

Edit:

Spoiler

In case you're wondering, yes, I can decipher it. Where did you think I learned to read wiring diagrams? :lol: A GM diagram like the above is child's play compared to the original Jag enigma papers.

However, after a number of angry people threatened to go to Coventry and burn the place down, they came out with a much easier to use wiring diagram manual, where they broke things down into subsystems, like so:

http://www.dallasdrivers.org/gallery/d/27965-1/Picture+61.png

http://www.dallasdrivers.org/gallery/d/27968-1/Picture+62.png