Do you believe in Global Warming/Climate Change

Do you believe in Global Warming/Climate Change

  • Yes i do believe in Climate Change, and humans as the cause

    Votes: 15 19.5%

  • Yes i do believe in Climate Change, but humans are not the cause

    Votes: 53 68.8%

  • No i do not believe in Climate Change

    Votes: 9 11.7%
  • Total voters
    77
i just remembered a massive flaw in the climate change argument
its very clever, and packs a punch
As smart people will tell you, extreme weather is caused by the difference in temperature between the arctics and the tropics. The greater the difference, the more extreme the weather, due to pressure differences and lots of other stuff.
The environmentalists claim that global warming is causing the polar ice caps to melt because its getting warmer.
if it is true that they are getting warmer, then the difference between the arctics and the tropics is less, which, scientifically, means less extreme weather
so how can they blame extreme weather on global warming ?
think about it
and then say owned, or something similarly derogatory
 
I haven't read through any of the reponses in this thread but I do believe that some degree of climate change does exist. I believe it is a cycle of the earth. After all there was an ice age that occured long before the modern era and I've heard reports that Mars has seen an increase in temperature as well, in addition to increased solar activity. I do not doubt the occurences are linked. I severely doubt that humans cause climate change and I think regulations imposed on us to "prevent" climate change based on hypothesis is both illogical and wrong.
 
I think an even more pressing issue in the future will be lack of food and fresh water, rather than climate change. There's no way that the planet can support 7+ billion people without shortages of food etc, unless we take Jeremy's solution and burn down the Amazon rainforest and grow food there!
 
I recommend Essential Background found at http://unfccc.int

Regardless of what the internets think, the UN climate report is what goverments and leaders base their decisions on. The time for debating if there is a climate change is long passed. What we do about it is the question for today. Food production is a big part of the issue, with several countries using food to make fuel.
 
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AiR said:
I recommend Essential Background found at http://unfccc.int

Regardless of what the internets think, the UN climate report is what goverments and leaders base their decisions on. The time for debating if there is a climate change is long passed. What we do about it is the question for today. Food production is a big part of the issue, with several countries using food to make fuel.
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I do agree with you there
Whilst I have my doubts of it's existance and the humans input, I belive the only way to assure it doesn't exist is to act immediately
It's a threat, and threats must be acted upon, just like a bomb threat or something similar because there honestly isn't the time or a second chance
And even if the action is for nothing, then at least we'll live on a clean earth :)
 
There aren't enough options. Where are "its real, humans contribute, but aren't the main factor" option?
 
Whappeh said:
There aren't enough options. Where are "its real, humans contribute, but aren't the main factor" option?
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Yep, that would be my vote too.
 
Goose+ said:
...unless we take Jeremy's solution and burn down the Amazon rainforest and grow food there!
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McDonalds' solution.

Seems a bit shortsighted to blame climate change on mankind when you consider the solar activity of the sun and how we operate in a very narrow band that's able to sustain life. Surely we must be subjectible to the changes in temperature from the sun and that's having an impact on our climate?

I dont know, I'm not an expert. Give me a $5 000 000 research grant and I'll go find out. Anyone?
 
I think climate change is happening, but not as a result of C02 emissions from burning fossil fuels. Cows farting contribute more to global warming (though methane gas) than I do driving my Ford pickup. The current warming trend is a direct result of increased solar activity.
 
I am pretty sure that the climate change that is happening (however political groups like the IPCC are, I think the argument has moved beyond whether it is happening to what is causing it) I'm not convinced that humans are the sole/major cause.

The only cause I have seen information on is the solar variation theory, which sad to say, was pretty thoroughly disproved. I can't remember the details, but it was a lecture I attended a couple of years ago given by a then colleague who is a Space Scientist and Fellow of The Royal Society who works on research into solar activity (so knows what he is talking about).

Although I don't believe we are a major cause of climate change, I do believe that a lot of the technology being developed to stop it will be of benefit anyway as we have known for years that we will eventually run out of fossil fuels, possibly in the next couple of hundred years if we use it at current rates. What we need is to get the focus on what works (solar collectors in the desert, but not in Manchester) and ditch what doesn't (most wind farms - unless you can guarantee high winds they are not reliable enough, and they are far too inefficient). Nuclear needs to be a big part of the solution as well.

Obviously the holy grail of power production will be Fusion, but that is probably 30 years away at least.

We will also have to face up to reducing our reliance on petrol/diesel fueled transport as long term the prices will continue to rise. By any measure pure electric cars are not the answer (Carbon costs in production, reliance on power grids that will be stretched anyway as older fossil fuel and Nuclear plants are taken off line - if we won't be able to power peoples homes in 5 years time in the UK the how are we going to power their cars as well? - and the charge time/range issues will remain troublesome - until we have <5 minute charges for a 300 mile range it just won't work.) Hydrogen looks the most viable to me, especially if you increase the number of Hydro/Tidal power plants - they can kill two birds with stone. Hydrogen gives carbon free transport with a viable range and, given a suitable network, a viable re-fuelling.
 
Red_Bull said:
I think humans do contribute to climate change, but not on the level that the eco-mentalists would have us believe.
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Whappeh said:
There aren't enough options. Where are "its real, humans contribute, but aren't the main factor" option?
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jeffy777 said:
Yep, that would be my vote too.
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Agree with the ^^^ above.
Where are "its real, humans contribute, but aren't the only factor" option?

Crazyjeeper said:
I think climate change is happening, but not as a result of C02 emissions from burning fossil fuels. Cows farting contribute more to global warming (though methane gas) than I do driving my Ford pickup. The current warming trend is a direct result of increased solar activity.
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x2 Crazyjeeper, there is a lot of bullshit in the Global Warming arguments, both literal and metaphorical. :)
 
AshDav said:
i just remembered a massive flaw in the climate change argument
its very clever, and packs a punch
Click to expand...

To be honest anyone who claims they can accurately model the effects of varying temperature across the globe is full of crap. You have two methods of modeling:

1) Trend fitting (guessing): trying to apply simple linear and exponential models to the most complex, most non-linear thing on the planet (the atmosphere).

2) Modeling: Trying to apply the equations of fluid and thermo dynamics on a large scale to the most complex, most non-linear thing on the planet. If we had an infinitely powerful computer and knowledge of every property of the atmosphere at infinite precision for the entire globe this might work.. but spot the problems.

So yeah, I guess what i'm saying is that climate science is shite.
 
Adunaphel said:
Climate change happens, as it has done for billions of years, and will continue to do as long as the earth has an atmosphere. Are humans the cause of it? I don't think so, at best a very little cog in the entire process. To say that humans cause global warming is giving ourselves too much credit. To think we can do anything to stop global warming, is just gross overestimation of our own abilities.
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Assuming we caused global warming, then we can fix it.

Adunaphel said:
Please tell me what that graph has to do with humans causing climate change or not. I just shows carbon emissions, which have risen over the past century yes. Nowhere it shows any correlation between carbon emissions and rising temperatures.
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It stands to reason. If you increase the amount of the greenhouse gas by 50x (for sake of arugment) then the tempreture will rise.

The problems of climate change are very real, if the earth has no significant glaciation then sea levels could potentially reach the levels that they were during the Mesozoic era (85% of the earth was covered in water opposed to 70% today). If that does happen then it has massive ramifications for human civilisation. Also, we know that the last time a massive body of ice broke into the atlantic is plunged northan europe into an ice age.

If humans really are significatly changing our climate then we have the power to fix it and if we aren't changing the climate, then it hardly matters since in millions of years from now, we are in trouble. :)
 
mclarensmps said:
(Though I do feel we contribute, just not a significant amount, in the greater scheme of things)
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Whappeh said:
There aren't enough options. Where are "its real, humans contribute, but aren't the main factor" option?
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Agreed.

While I think any changes in the weather are mostly natural I think it is pretty obvious we aren't helping anything by polluting the environment we live in. Most all of the environmentally friendly ideas that are being pushed recently I agree with, not because they claim omg global warming will kill us all but because in the long run they will only help. Help as in lead to cleaner air/water or as in provide us with a renewable source of energy.
 
I think out planet is still climbing out of the last ice age, so arrogant we are to think that over the course of a few hundred years mankind has raised the temperature, or make drastic changes in our world.

In the summer, see how much grass grows out of the cracks of pavement. That, is proof alone we affect very little of the world.
 
The one thing we do know about climate change is that we don't know anything at all.
 
jayhawk said:
I think out planet is still climbing out of the last ice age, so arrogant we are to think that over the course of a few hundred years mankind has raised the temperature, or make drastic changes in our world.

In the summer, see how much grass grows out of the cracks of pavement. That, is proof alone we affect very little of the world.
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In a sense you have a point. The earth is very resilient, but at the same time we do make some nasty changes to our planet. Take the river and lake systems in the US for instance. These days it's getting harder and harder to find a body of water that isn't at least a little polluted. Some are so nasty that you aren't even supposed to put your head under the water, and certainly you aren't supposed to eat the fish. If we were able to compare the state of our rivers and lakes to that of 100 years ago, it would be quite shocking to see how much they've changed, and in more ways than just becoming more polluted (such as the negative effects on water due to construction, deforestation, etc).

So it's not so arrogant to see that we do have an impact on this planet. Actually it's hard not to see it.

However, I'm not saying that climate change is definite result of human actions, but I don't think it's a stretch to think that we just might have a little bit of an impact.
 
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