Dodge Viper could bow out again in 2017

prizrak

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That is virtually the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Where do you think the Corvette (or the 911, or the Coxsters, or the Mustang, or the Camaro, or the Challenger) would be if they didn't at least offer the choice of an automatic? They'd be keeping a tombstone warm to greet the Viper in the awesome cars cemetery.

I'll buy a manual Corvette. And I'll be grateful that I even have the opportunity to do so courtesy of all the housewives who kept that car alive by getting an automatic.


I don't think offering it as an auto would have solved all its problems, but it's undeniable it would have likely doubled, if not tripled the sales. Also, lack of a drop top this time around was pretty stupid.
Fuck autos, this type of car should never have it market appeal be damned. Focus RS is manual only, as it should be
 

JimCorrigan

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Fuck autos, this type of car should never have it market appeal be damned. Focus RS is manual only, as it should be
And it wouldn't exist were it not for all the auto Focus models sold upon which this business case could be made.
 

prizrak

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And it wouldn't exist were it not for all the auto Focus models sold upon which this business case could be made.
I don't care about normal Focus, it's a boring FWD pile of misery. RS doesn't have an auto, nor should it ever. Viper doesn't have an auto, nor should it ever. Both are cars for fun and nothing else. I am still pissed that 370z nismo comes as an auto. I get pony/muscle cars having the auto option, Vette is bought by old people with arthritis and the muscle/pony cars do plenty of drag racing where auto is actually better. Viper is not even a super car driven once in a blue moon, it's about as close as one can get to a race car on streets. I'm glad they didn't offer an auto, it let the car die with dignity not as a shadow of its former self (looking at you GT-R).
 
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Spectre

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What about using the Viper name to make a few hand-built cars every few years or so? If no one knows when the next Viper will be produced, it will increase the perceived scarcity of the car and possibly drive up overall sales. You tool up and do a one-year run every 6-8 years or so when there is surplus time and space on a particular line. This would help avoid layoffs and bring a return for Fiat Chrysler.
Type certification (emissions, crash testing, etc.) will cost the same if they put it into that sort of production as it does now; it will also still have to meet the full safety requirements. Since it's FCA, they won't qualify for the new green-car-intended Low Volume Manufacturer exemptions.

This has been coming for a long time. Everyone forgets that the Viper was originally an exercise in parts-bin engineering - the majority of the mechanical and components of the first Viper came from other cars in the Chrysler lineup. This kept the production costs way down and made the car very easy to justify. As the Viper developed, it got further and further away from this and contained more and more bespoke items that just weren't making it into the higher volume cars. Eventually, we get to today where the Viper is no longer justifiable because of all the bespoke parts.

The loss of the Viper is actually far more significant than just the loss of an automotive icon. The number one actual impact of the Viper has rarely been the car itself; no, the major accomplishment of the Viper was to keep GM honest on the Vette and force them to make the Corvette a real world class sports car instead of the boulevard cruiser/poser it had become before Viper.
 

prizrak

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The "supercar that's not even driven that much" are ferraris and lambos. Most of those have flappy paddles.
You misunderstood my point, Viper isn't one of them, hence should only be manual

On the parts bin vs bespoke, we kind of see the same thing with the new Ford GT, it's only going to be a super limited run and even then only to show off the "ecoboost" tech. FCA just doesn't have the funds for a show off car like Ford does
 
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JimCorrigan

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I don't care about normal Focus, it's a boring FWD pile of misery. RS doesn't have an auto, nor should it ever. Viper doesn't have an auto, nor should it ever. Both are cars for fun and nothing else. I am still pissed that 370z nismo comes as an auto. I get pony/muscle cars having the auto option, Vette is bought by old people with arthritis and the muscle/pony cars do plenty of drag racing where auto is actually better. Viper is not even a super car driven once in a blue moon, it's about as close as one can get to a race car on streets. I'm glad they didn't offer an auto, it let the car die with dignity not as a shadow of its former self (looking at you GT-R).
You need to sell your Mustang IMMEDIATELY or your militant stance is just posturing.

Oh, I don't have arthritis, and I'm not even 40.

Keep digging. You must be halfway to China at this point.
 
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prizrak

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You need to sell your Mustang IMMEDIATELY or your militant stance is just posturing.
Last I checked mine had three pedals. Mustang is in the same vein as the Focus, it's not a purebred sports car, it had a choice of a V6 from the beginning. It was a mass market car, it wasn't essentially a track day special. And when they made one (GT350) it's manual only.

Viper was never a "normal" mass market car, it has no need for an auto and it wouldn't have saved it anyway.

Oh, I don't have arthritis, and I'm not even 40.
Nor have a Corvette :p
Keep digging. You must be halfway to China at this point.
Want me to bring you a new wife while I'm there? :p
 

czelaya

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Yuck! Pushrods rock -- it keeps the weight down low and less moving parts. My car has variable valve timing and all of that fancy stuff. You don't need DOHC for that.

My understanding is the main reason is stuff like airbags, plus of course the fact that the plant is shutting down. They aren't selling enough to make it worth moving the dedicated production line.
I've recently had a complete change of mind on OHV engines (especially because of their physical size when compared to DOHC engines). However, the 8.4 Liter V10 in the Viper does weigh around 700lbs. What's the weight of lets say a 5.2 V-10 from Audi? I'm trying to find this out now. On the other hand, I'm almost sure that a 5.2 V10 from Audi is still much larger than the Viper's V10.

What picture that still blows my mind is the following (a 6.2 Liter OHV vs. 2.0 Liter I-4):


Out of curiousity why are you more of a fan of OHV engines?
 

argatoga

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How dressed is that 700lb weight?
 

JimCorrigan

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Last I checked mine had three pedals.
But Mustangs come with the option of an auto, and therefore by your own admission it renders the entire line to be avoided like the plague.

prizrak said:
Nor have a Corvette :p
Hey, give me some time! Wifey is caving.... :p

prizrak said:
Want me to bring you a new wife while I'm there? :p
No, but I have a hankering for some authentic dim sum, while you're there.
 

prizrak

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But Mustangs come with the option of an auto, and therefore by your own admission it renders the entire line to be avoided like the plague.
Burn em all to the ground!


Hey, give me some time! Wifey is caving.... :p
That will be the time to come visit you :p


No, but I have a hankering for some authentic dim sum, while you're there.
Done :p
 

czelaya

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How dressed is that 700lb weight?
Not absolutely sure. I went to various websites that had engine weights for the Viper V-10 from various years. The range of the weights were roughly 690-750 lbs.
 
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