Energy production, storage, and future technologies

eizbaer

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Our isolationists are loosing their shits over it, of course, they are rambling about it as if it was 1940 and the sky was full of Heinkel. But, I'm not worried about it. You have to see it in long therm, maybe, we'll get more expensive electricity for a shorter period of time every now and then, but on the flip side we greatly improve our power supply redundancy by adding more possible power sources to the mix, as Germany is getting more and more renewables online. This also means we can export a lot of our hydro power when we have a surplus, which is most of the time.

The opposite of cables like this is a very, very bad idea, as demonstrated by Texas this winter.
To be honest I was surprised a connection like this didn't exist already! I know many "green" electricity tariffs in Germany are sold with some 60+% hydro power - which can only really come from Norway. I know it's not physically linked, but for the "balance sheet" method of greenwashing used here; I had assumed would at least have a decent link between the grids.

I saw some scandinavian already go ape-shit in the reddit thread I stole the picture from... not quite the NAZI INVASION!!!!11 type of thing, but they were convinced suddenly their energy would get ridiculously expensive for some reason. I can honestly only see positives: we'll ditch our surplus wind & solar (but mostly wind) to Norway at negative prices and import hydro when we manage to throttle the crappy coal enough. The only time I can see this interconnect actually raising Norwegian prices is in the case that there's very low renewables available and a very high consumption driving market prices through the roof. However, in that case, I think Nordlink i simply too small to even make a difference, as peak for German electricity production in 2021 so far: 78.5 GW, max. import/export: 13.5 GW (so at least in this case, it's a solid 10% addition). [source]

There has to be standardized plugs, and equal prices for every customer independent of what car they drive.
That's the thing though... that'll be a long way to go now, the way the market has been developing so far. It's a good idea (because it'd prevent the crazy-price horror stories journalists often experience, because they're clueless), but I don't see it happening...

The thing is, and I think it's been stated nicely already: if you wait for the legislation to be there first, you will never get anywhere. And when you wait for legislation to catch up (like now), you end up with a bunch of players in the market getting screwed over or angry at least. Example here: Germany just mandated credit card terminals (full terminals, no software solution blabla) for all public chargers from July 2023. It's ridiculous, as it's gonna make building and operating them even more expensive... and nobody actually needs that, as:
Didn’t the EU do that??
The EU mandated the standard plug and a "non discriminatory access method" for anyone just arriving at the charger. So you don't have to have a pre-existing contract (i.e. get a charge card beforehand), you can just arrive and somehow pay for your charge. This somehow is open, but the German interpretation of the law basically allows any one the following: a coinslot (yes. Germany.), a card terminal, a web-based payment system. Because of cost and operational considerations, basically everyone (except very few high power chargers who will actually have a CC terminal) will go with the latter option. Just set up a simple website to pay via paypal/cc that remote-authorizes the charger. Mostly simple and easy. Unless you don't have a smartphone, ofc...
 

GRtak

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GRtak

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GRtak

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GRtak

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marcos_eirik

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This is not surprising. I remember seeing this a long time ago, I see it has been updated since then.
 

GRtak

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marcos_eirik

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TeslaBjørn's thoughts about Tesla opening up the SC-network to others, and how they may do it:


The only problem I can see is as TB points out, the mess you will get as most of the charging stalls are made for having the socket in the same place, as in the left, rear 3/4 panel of the car. The points he makes are very much valid, and somewhat hard to argue against.
 

NooDle

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I understand the whinging of diehard Teslafans since they think’Part of me funded this and now they’re going all socialist and giving it to everyone and I don’t want to be held up by a slow charging car’ which I sort of understand… OTOH Tesla’s (atleast in Europe) can charge at every CCS plug so why not have it work both ways around? There’s a lot of money involved also ….

Charge port placement is an issue though, a Porsche Taycan or Audi etron will have a bad time unless they park sideways / backwards and thereby block 2 or more stalls.

Maybe they’ll redesign the existing stalls so cars from other brands won’t have this problem?
 

marcos_eirik

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^A lot of Tesla SCs (here at least) have the charge stall behind the car. With an etron or Taycan you just park the car with the nose (rather than the rear) in at the stand. I also believe they have the DC-fast charger on the right front fender, so they can get away with parking backwards on the side mounted (trailer friendly) Tesla SC-stalls (Teslas have the charge port on the left rear 3/4 panel).

On a side note, what I have seen at charging locations where there are multiple chargers is that on big drive out days, the Ionity, Mer, ReCharge, Circle K etc. are full, but the Tesla SC is usually at like 1/2-capacity, so there would be plenty of space for other brand's EVs at Tesla SCs most of the time. Despite this, Tesla is still expanding aggressively, probably in preparation for opening up the network.

However, I do see one problem with the Taycan and etron-GT sisters at Tesla SCs, and that is the 800 volt architecture. The Tesla SCs are 400 volt, which means that you will get a conversion loss with 800 volt cars at Tesla SCs, which means you won't get the full SC charge speeds.
 

jack_christie

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Tesla planned to sell an adapter (USA) that would connect non-Teslas to the supercharger. Owners would need to download the Tesla app to pay for charging.


Also set to charge more for slow charging

ChargePoint has bigger network
 
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GRtak

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I would rather use a credit card than an app. Why, you ask. Let's say I rent, borrow, or loan out an EV and will only have it for a short time. Why do I want to go through the hassle of setting up the app? We have the ability to do it, we have for decades on gas pumps
 

jack_christie

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I would rather use a credit card than an app. Why, you ask. Let's say I rent, borrow, or loan out an EV and will only have it for a short time. Why do I want to go through the hassle of setting up the app? We have the ability to do it, we have for decades on gas pumps
Contactless payment should mandatory on all chargers at no surcharge.

EV drivers probably end up with 4, 5, 6 or more apps?
 

gaasc

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I would rather use a credit card than an app. Why, you ask. Let's say I rent, borrow, or loan out an EV and will only have it for a short time. Why do I want to go through the hassle of setting up the app? We have the ability to do it, we have for decades on gas pumps
But that would not be "futuristic", would it?
 

GRtak

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gaasc

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You and me both, but it doesn't seem like the market is moving that way. I believe we did mention something on this thread about this being a perfect time for governments to step in and do attempts at standardization. This is another data point on this.

*Insert my rant about Hydrogen here* :p
 

NecroJoe

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Are there adaptors for cars that have a different plug standard?
 

GRtak

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Are there adaptors for cars that have a different plug standard?


Most EVs use a standard connector. Teslas are the exception, and yes, you can get an adaptor to use the other chargers.
 

NecroJoe

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Most EVs use a standard connector. Teslas are the exception, and yes, you can get an adaptor to use the other chargers.

I guess what I meant was going the other way...but I guess there wouldn't have been a need for a way for cars to attach to Tesla's chargers before, there there probably will be some when Tesla does open them up.
 

eizbaer

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I guess what I meant was going the other way...but I guess there wouldn't have been a need for a way for cars to attach to Tesla's chargers before, there there probably will be some when Tesla does open them up.

Pretty much: if it works in one direction it should work in the other as well, somehow. Still, I don’t see many people actually buying the Adapter at possibly high cost (only a thing in murica anyway). I think musk suggested on Twitter to have the adapter at the SC available for use (like Fastned has done over here with the chademo to tesla adapter, back when Tesla didn’t use ccs yet).

Regarding 800V architecture: I think v3 SUCs are capable of delivering 960V or something, at least according to the slightly confusing mandatory plaque they carry.
 
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