Entire field of MotoE bikes destroyed by fire

bone

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where these spec bikes?
anyone has results of the test?
any team that was blatantly slow and tried to fix it? :p
 

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divine intervention
Probably doesn't feel that way to the teams and the riders. Regardless of personal feelings, dino-juice is going away and it's race series like this that are going to make our future vehicles better to drive and ride.
 

prizrak

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Probably doesn't feel that way to the teams and the riders. Regardless of personal feelings, dino-juice is going away and it's race series like this that are going to make our future vehicles better to drive and ride.
I would argue that of all types of vehicles, motorcycles moving off of dino-juice makes the least sense.
 

bone

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I would argue that of all types of vehicles, motorcycles moving off of dino-juice makes the least sense.
you should watch a clip from some asian cities, and see how many moped etc are running around
it would make A LOT of sence to replace those with electric variants

doesn't make a lot of sense for an entertainment bike, but for a commuter bike, it sure does
 

prizrak

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you should watch a clip from some asian cities, and see how many moped etc are running around
it would make A LOT of sence to replace those with electric variants

doesn't make a lot of sense for an entertainment bike, but for a commuter bike, it sure does
Except that these are places where e-anything makes no sense because they neither have the infrastructure nor the money to pay for it.
 

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Except that these are places where e-anything makes no sense because they neither have the infrastructure nor the money to pay for it.
...yet

And are you really telling me that Tokyo, Hong Kong, Taipei, or Singapore don't have the grid to facilitate electric charge points? Because that's bullshit. Sure there are less developed cities and towns, but this is part of the process. We could have said the same thing about gas powered engines, they don't have the roads, refineries, fueling stations or other infrastructure to support gas vehicles, so they will just sick with oxen and horses forever.
 

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...yet

And are you really telling me that Tokyo, Hong Kong, Taipei, or Singapore don't have the grid to facilitate electric charge points? Because that's bullshit. Sure there are less developed cities and towns, but this is part of the process.
Tokyo and HK aren't poor so they don't have to run some shit 100cc mopeds as their main transport. Motorcycles as main form of transportation is really only something that happens in poor countries where cars are too expensive. China is a perfect example of this, they went from pedal bikes to cars as soon as they could afford it and immediately started building out roads. Hell even in the US, California should be a bikers paradise, mild weather, legal lane splitting, ability to use HOV lanes, lower tolls, much cheaper to run and massive traffic jams to boot and yet it's somewhere in the middle for bike registrations.

People like to be comfortable, they like air conditioning when it's hot, heaters when it's cold, they like soft cushy seats, they like to be able to take their entire family in relative safety without having to look like something out of Mad Max. So as soon as they can afford it, they get cars not bikes.
We could have said the same thing about gas powered engines, they don't have the roads, refineries, fueling stations or other infrastructure to support gas vehicles, so they will just sick with oxen and horses forever.
Gas can be shipped, electricity not so much. Plenty of cars and motorcycles require nothing more than somewhat flattened and de-grassed piece of land to run on. Roads are not an issue for motorized mobility.

You are also completely ignoring the problems of longevity, all your vehicles would have needed at least one battery replacement by now (and your VFR likely two). Mind you this is going by how long car batteries last, bike batteries being significantly smaller are likely to last much less.* That is entirely too expensive a fix for countries where people run 100cc mopeds as their main mode of transport.

*Less cells means each cell is a larger percentage of total capacity so each degrading cell takes away a larger portion of total charge
 

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Look at how far battery tech has come in the last decade or two. The fact is, this is the future, I'd like to make it the best possible one that we can. Who knows what infrastructure and technology we will develop as we continue to work on this problem. One possible solution I've seen thrown around is being able to pump electrolytic gel into a car's battery pack, allowing you to "fuel" up like you would at a gas pump.
 

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Best possible future would include:
  1. Technology progressing to the point where transportation is cheap and plentiful so that poor people don't have to get 100cc scooters just to get places
  2. Poor countries no longer being poor and being able to afford decent stuff like cars
Let's face it a motorcycle is an enthusiast toy and is not something regular people would choose if they could afford cars, no matter how much sense it might make (see CA example above).

Additionally there is no technological difference between an E-bike and an E-car. Any advancements in E-car technology will always trickle down to motorcycles.

Look at how far battery tech has come in the last decade or two.
It really hasn't, we are using same exact Li-po tech, that is quite close to it's theoretical limit I must add, we have been using for a good long while. The biggest advances have been in how efficiently those batteries are used not how they store power.
 

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The capacities have increased many times over. If you don't see or understand that, then you are blind or misinformed.
 

bone

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[*]Poor countries no longer being poor and being able to afford decent stuff like cars
[/LIST]
And the little kids in Africa should all wear shoes, because that's how we do it!
Maybe you should stop forcing your values on other civilisations?

Also, imagine all those on a moped, in a car...most of those cities are already in permanent gridlock!

And why are the 100cc mopeds so cheap over ther? Because we funded 100 years of development...just like we're doing with electric vehicles now.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
 

prizrak

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And the little kids in Africa should all wear shoes, because that's how we do it!
Maybe you should stop forcing your values on other civilisations?
You just reduced a huge ass continent with thousands of different cultures and over 50 countries to one tired trope and you are going to try and lecture ME on forcing values? Leaving aside the fact that people in Africa do actually wear shoes...

Also I am using logic and history, like I said look at China and see how car ownership exploded once middle class grew.

And why are the 100cc mopeds so cheap over ther? Because we funded 100 years of development...just like we're doing with electric vehicles now.
Computers are cheap, so is internet, yet you are not likely to get Gigabit to your house somewhere in Vietnam because it requires a ton of pre-requisite infrastructure. Even if you got the e-bikes to be as cheap as those little mopeds you are still talking about an absolutely massive infrastructure investment.

Batteries are energy storage, while efficient it is not 100% efficient meaning you have to overproduce energy in order to meet demand, something even developed countries struggle with these days. The best thing about fossil fuels is that they are essentially "free" and self contained energy. They require relatively little infrastructure (compared to electrics) as they can be wheeled around in big ass barrels.

Also, imagine all those on a moped, in a car...most of those cities are already in permanent gridlock!
If they are already in permanent gridlock, ev bikes won't help. The only way out of it is mass transit systems running below or above ground.
 
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prizrak

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Not with congestion. Yes with air quality, which tends to be an issue on those places.
And the air quality is bad because they either don’t have an infra to clean it (like clean power plants) or money to buy less shitty transport.
 

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Part of the reason for the packaging increase is that they are getting more from less materials. Ie, capacities have increased.
Not really, they are able to stick cells closer together, not make smaller cells. Biggest difference between Li-ion and Li-po (which is where you got most of the improvement from) is that latter doesn’t have to use round cells so you don’t have all that wasted space.
There are basic chemical limitations on what Lithium can do and it’s getting damn close to that limit already* Unless we get some completely different battery tech** you won’t see much improvement.

*That limit is also informed by safety and longevity, you could run the battery harder and get more out of it but it won’t have as many cycles in it and might explode.

**Sulfur would be better but that’s insanely toxic. And I been hearing about breakthroughs in solid state batteries for at least a decade now and still nada

Even assuming battery tech can progress to be nearly as good as ICE in terms of range/price, you are still talking about having to replace a major [expensive] component every few years. And you still require a robust and over producing grid
 
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