Fahrenheit 9/11

Fahrenheit 9/11

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Renesis

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your sig is a bunch of red X's.

and BTW I think what you quoted is a good way of thinking for artists although it's surprizing coming from a filmmaker..
 

haz

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justin syder said:
haz said:
There are some other wankers who want to make a profit off MM, by going against him with making docu's against MM and such.

Did they not get his films content, or are they just retardos?!?!

haz

hmm, i looked at the sites and failed to see how they are profiting from Moore. tell me how those sites are profiting from Moore.

they are simply telling the truth and undoing the lies he tells.

Yeah Bush is out for Iraq's oil. And gasoline prices are really low thanks to him. :roll:

Well, I think generally that whenever someone goes tries to steal some of the light that shines on people who recieve alot of attention from media etc., they tend to go against that person or that group.
In this case, Moore.

I just don't understand why anyone wants to go against him at least not in his case, I mean he's a big menace to the US govt - but with the right of being that. I think that the average american should involve themselves a whole lot more in what's going on in the world, since half the time it's them having a war in foreign countries (with a hidden agenda, ref: Iraq=oil) And why not let MM be that person?
I can agree on that his sources are sometimes scetchy, but try and focus ON THE BIG PICTURE. I think more and more peeps in the US now know (as opposed to before their wars in Afg & Iraq) how shitty, yes SHITTY, pres they have controlling their "free" country (and every NATO-member as well) and what descissions he makes and has made concerning reactions to the 9/11 attacks.
I guess his father had his war, now it was his turn ;)

I heard something about the US vicepres. telling another politician (or was it a reporter?) to "go fuck yourself"..... :shock: I mean whatafuck?!? HOW old are you again? Now THATs a wanker....

As to making profit on MM with going against him: of course they win on that!! They get publisity for their webpages, sell films (ref. Michael Wilson with www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com) and get maybe 5 seconds, or more, of fame. And for what?
In my eyes, MM wants to "get back" on the people fucking his country from behind, namely their politicians.. he loves his hometown, but in the 80's, it looked like a ghost-town. People were thrown out of their homes, fired from their GM jobs and eventually had to move to another city/state and live on wellfare.... (if you saw "Roger and Me"...)

To put it this way JUSTIN; how do you think these people that are against MM are NOT making profits on this?? They might be claming on their websites they only want to enlighten people on MM's "lies", and just bring the truth to the people. Pheh.. THEY are the only true liars.

haz
 

Renesis

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This is so funny... I have like 3 arguments of this going on at different forums...

some Pro bush don't get it.. but they don't even have arguments so :roll:
 

haz

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^^^^^^ I KNOW ^^^^^^

It suprises me, and that was one of my arguments in this discussion - that why do these idiots go against MM when they don't know/have any arguments for hating him (they claim he's lying...phehh...)

Another thing; why do people like Bush? (What makes people think: hmmm...that Bush-now THERE's a darned good man!) What good has he done after he took over as pres? NUTTN!!!! He has even made several European nations "war-nations", and WE don't want war just because US wants/wanted it....freakin' pisses me off...

haz
 

Renesis

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yup. I'm glad our PM back then was Chretien and not Martin... I'm sure Martin would've sent people in Irak.
 

zenon

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I've got immense respect for what Chretien did in that situation.

I haven't heard of a politician in such a high position do something nearly as ballsy in a long time.
 

justin syder

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so i take it canadians are cowardly?

if 9-11 happened to you guys would you think that you would need to fight the terrorists or simply set up a memorial and move on?

to haz, one big reason why i hate MMoore is his lies that he out put and brainwashed people with. We are there for oil??? plz, why do we have high gas prices, why dont you hear on the news that we are pumping their oil for our consumption. on top of that tell me how we are using their oil?

My point about moore, what has he done to help america??

Bush has gotten tons of terrorists, taliban assholes, and saddam captured of killed. Do you think the world is a better place without those people??

Then I ask, what has moore done to make this world better. :roll: Yeah making conspiracy theories on how we are there for oil or the govt is evil. :roll: :roll:
 

zenon

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justin syder said:
so i take it canadians are cowardly?

if 9-11 happened to you guys would you think that you would need to fight the terrorists or simply set up a memorial and move on?

Justin, are you actually serious about this! 9\11 has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq. I strongly urge you to actually educate yourself on this situation before posting flame bait! Seriously!

Turn off Fox News and go out and read a book!

The UN realized that 9\11 had nothing to do with Iraq, Canada realized that 9\11 had nothing to do with Iraq - hence there was no sanctioning by the UN, and no Canadian troops.

That does not mean that Canada is opposed to fighting terrorism. We sent a large group of troops to Afghanistan (by the way, there were numerous Canadian soldier casualties thanks to American friendly fire)!

This brand of right wing ill-logic is absolutely plaguing north America! 9\11 has nothing to do with Iraq!

justin syder said:
to haz, one big reason why i hate MMoore is his lies that he out put and brainwashed people with. We are there for oil??? plz, why do we have high gas prices, why dont you hear on the news that we are pumping their oil for our consumption. on top of that tell me how we are using their oil?

Again, please go and read a book or two before posting non-factual\ill-logical flame bait! Do you know anything about energy issues? Do you realize how cheap fuel is in North America? Do you realize how much the political structure of America has invested in and relies on cheap fuel? That comment is not even worth responding to.

justin syder said:
Bush has gotten tons of terrorists, taliban assholes, and saddam captured of killed. Do you think the world is a better place without those people??

Then I ask, what has moore done to make this world better. :roll: Yeah making conspiracy theories on how we are there for oil or the govt is evil. :roll: :roll:

You just don't get it. Turn off Fox News, turn off CNN, look into who is actually writing the newspapers you read... and think more!!!
 

Renesis

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justin syder said:
so i take it canadians are cowardly?

if 9-11 happened to you guys would you think that you would need to fight the terrorists or simply set up a memorial and move on?

we're not hated so that woudn't happen to us and your terrorist war is bullshit, like zenon said you can't relate Iraq and 9/11



justin syder said:
My point about moore, what has he done to help america??

what have YOU done? :roll: :wink:

justin syder said:
Bush has gotten tons of terrorists, taliban assholes, and saddam captured of killed. Do you think the world is a better place without those people??

are you fucking joking? damn! comon dude! :roll: :roll:

justin syder said:
Then I ask, what has moore done to make this world better. :roll: Yeah making conspiracy theories on how we are there for oil or the govt is evil. :roll: :roll:

you really don't get it.. stop thinking that Bush is a genius and look at the facts
 

justin syder

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he is not a genius but tell me what makes him bad for re-election, which is how i will help my country come Nov 2, re-elect prez Bush.

how does mmoore help america?
 

Renesis

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He helps america with his movie, showing americans how of an ass your dumb president is and part of the stupidities he did. Sadly some are still too close minded to see the reality like you.
 

justin syder

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so tell my dumb ass all the stupid things bush does, im listening.
 

Renesis

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go watch the move that'll save both of us some time since I won't have to explain and you won't try to argue with a theater screen. :wink:
 

justin syder

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funny you should say that, cuz ur friend said the same thing.

the movie makes you think that our govt is so wrong and evil but when i ask ppl that saw it to give me their own opininon they have to refer to the movie.

they themselves dont belive that propoganda that they saw.
 

Likwid

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The sad fact was this was not a documentary but the propagandist delusions of an extremist. Fact was completely thrown out the window replaced instead with the infestation of hate this man feels for our President. Before I go further I am not a republican or a Bush supporter and yes I did see the movie.

In his film you had a mix of outright spoken lies and innuendo that was meant to convey a point without words. As with Columbine there was a magician?s slight of hand with film clips as well.

First let?s start with the scene in the school. As the events are unfolding our President sits stunned and useless for seven minutes and from the pictures it does in fact look like our President was doing nothing, however, there was really nothing to do until he had information to base his actions on. Acting out of impulse or anger would have solved nothing and the events of that day would have continued regardless. Jumping off his stool and running out of the room showing panic, fear or anger during a PR event wouldn?t have solved anything and most likely would have caused panic as the PR event was rushed to the carnivorous news media for early air play, aka ?This just in...?. The fact is unless GWB had a superman cape under his suit there was nothing he could do. The argument then arises that if the Bush admin hadn?t cut CIA spending this wouldn?t have happened. Fact is it was the Clinton admin that cut CIA spending. Then there?s the golf scenes and vacation time. Many presidents have given witty retorts to the press while they were golfing, Clinton did it many times. Many presidents have gone back to their home or Camp David to work so there is nothing uncommon in that either. Tony Blair appears in one of the shots slightly off camera for a brief moment so that would tell me, that in at least that clip, the President was in fact working. Then there is his daddy and the strings pulled for him. To lead one to believe that George W. Bush is the only person that has pulled strings in Washington is blasphemy. The accounts of people getting sweet deals from relatives in Washington would be an endless list. One of the most outrageous (aside from the numerous Kennedy family atrocities) was the then Senator Al Gore?s wife Tipper and her wonderful contribution called the PMRC. In 1985 it was Tipper that led other Washington wives on a crusade to censor (read remove 1st amendment rights) ?offensive? music lyrics. Actual US tax money was wasted on this pathetic effort which did nothing more then give us the music ?parental warning? label (which IMO sells more records). Even John Denver got a sticker for his song Rocky Mountain High because the daft Tipper thought it was a drug reference.

Let?s talk about Iraq. Several times on national television Bill Clinton made the statement that Iraq had WMD which means Bush isn?t the first one to make those accusations. There was a time during the Clinton term that we bombed Iraq but of course Moore never thought to enter that dialogue into his film. Moore also didn?t include the number of known terrorists that would spend time at one of the many palaces Saddam owned. The fact that suicide bombers and other forms of terror attacks were funded, undisguised, in Israel (among other places) by Saddam was thoughtfully absent in the film as well. When Saddam invaded Kuwait he took prisoners including Americans, which with the assignation attempt by the Iraqi secret police on the former President Bush disproves the statement made that no Iraqi has harmed, killed or threatened an American citizen. Happy times in Iraq? Well if you perceive dancing in the streets after the 9/11 attacks a happy Iraq then yes. After the attacks it was Saddam?s regime that openly celebrated and ordered the celebration to be broadcasted on Iraqi TV, none of which ever made it into Moore?s film of course. The suffering of those who spoke against Saddam, his rapist older son, his Hitleristic genocide to his own countrymen.... none of that made it into his film. Moore went for your heart strings when he showed the bombing of Iraq and several moments when pictures of dead Iraqi?s were displayed on the big screen but fails to clue you in that the explosions you see are the palaces, police and military targets. He fails to mention that those who oppose US forces, unlike civilized militia, don?t wear uniforms and have absolutely no problem attacking the ?enemy? from a stranger?s home, place of worship or even in a hospital. Moore never tells you that to a terrorist or Saddam supporter a civilian means nothing. Moore?s film directs you to believe that Saddam was a good man, his citizens led productive happy lives and he had no agenda with terrorism across the globe.

So what about the Saudi?s? Well the FBI did in fact question the visiting Saudi?s before they left US soil. The theory that the Saudi?s and the Bush?s are hand in hand chums is ludicrous. If this were so liberating Iraq into a democracy would never have happened as the Saudi?s oppose it and everything the Bush admin has spoken. There is Saudi money in the US but they aren?t the only outside money being invested in US business. What about Microsoft? There is Saudi money invested in MS but they didn?t have a profit surge directly linked to the war. GM however did as did many other companies that make US military weapons, software, vehicles clothing and other various needed supplies. Funny thing is none of them have Saudi money invested or a link to the Bush family but Moore must not have felt it important to mention any of this.

One thing Moore did right was include the minorities and poor in his film just like he has in the past. A Michael Moore film just wouldn?t be the same without his finger pointing to the poor masses and minorities then blaming the rich or large corporations but unlike past films (since the bad people change with every film) it was Bush?s fault this time. The facts have seemed to slip off Michael?s clipboard when he was writing this section of the film as well. The fact is Caucasian?s are still signing up for military duty more then minorities. Schools located in ?rich? sections of town get just as many recruiters as other schools. You still have to be tested to join the military so that means in today?s US military Forest Gump wouldn?t be accepted.

In all his ramblings he only convinced me of three things.

1. He lives in his own world where his reality is somehow different then the rest of our?s.
2. He can contradict himself quite well (saying we didn?t send enough troops in an anti war film and the govt didn?t take enough warnings seriously but warn too much now as just two examples)
3. He truly, honestly, intensely and with great passion undeniably hates George W. Bush with all of his being.

As I said before I am not a Bush supporter and I think we should have had the world's blessing before taking ANY action. I, however, can not agree with this film. It is outright propaganda the likes of which haven?t been seen since Hitler Germany or Communist Russia. For a film that was meant to outright slap the President I honestly think it will end up helping him in the upcoming election. Moore displayed a one sided and sometimes even made up view of the events of the Bush presidency. Unfortunately for Moore there are people in this country that are intelligent and can think for themselves that will see this film for what it truly is. But what more can you expect from a man who has been quoted as saying Americans are stupid and if the hostages on the planes during 9/11 werent all scared white people it wouldnt have happened.... IMO Moore is the lowest form of lying biggot.
 

Renesis

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Likwid said:
The sad fact was this was not a documentary but the propagandist delusions of an extremist. Fact was completely thrown out the window replaced instead with the infestation of hate this man feels for our President. Before I go further I am not a republican or a Bush supporter and yes I did see the movie.

In his film you had a mix of outright spoken lies and innuendo that was meant to convey a point without words. As with Columbine there was a magician?s slight of hand with film clips as well.

First let?s start with the scene in the school. As the events are unfolding our President sits stunned and useless for seven minutes and from the pictures it does in fact look like our President was doing nothing, however, there was really nothing to do until he had information to base his actions on. Acting out of impulse or anger would have solved nothing and the events of that day would have continued regardless. Jumping off his stool and running out of the room showing panic, fear or anger during a PR event wouldn?t have solved anything and most likely would have caused panic as the PR event was rushed to the carnivorous news media for early air play, aka ?This just in...?. The fact is unless GWB had a superman cape under his suit there was nothing he could do. The argument then arises that if the Bush admin hadn?t cut CIA spending this wouldn?t have happened. Fact is it was the Clinton admin that cut CIA spending. Then there?s the golf scenes and vacation time. Many presidents have given witty retorts to the press while they were golfing, Clinton did it many times. Many presidents have gone back to their home or Camp David to work so there is nothing uncommon in that either. Tony Blair appears in one of the shots slightly off camera for a brief moment so that would tell me, that in at least that clip, the President was in fact working. Then there is his daddy and the strings pulled for him. To lead one to believe that George W. Bush is the only person that has pulled strings in Washington is blasphemy. The accounts of people getting sweet deals from relatives in Washington would be an endless list. One of the most outrageous (aside from the numerous Kennedy family atrocities) was the then Senator Al Gore?s wife Tipper and her wonderful contribution called the PMRC. In 1985 it was Tipper that led other Washington wives on a crusade to censor (read remove 1st amendment rights) ?offensive? music lyrics. Actual US tax money was wasted on this pathetic effort which did nothing more then give us the music ?parental warning? label (which IMO sells more records). Even John Denver got a sticker for his song Rocky Mountain High because the daft Tipper thought it was a drug reference.

Let?s talk about Iraq. Several times on national television Bill Clinton made the statement that Iraq had WMD which means Bush isn?t the first one to make those accusations. There was a time during the Clinton term that we bombed Iraq but of course Moore never thought to enter that dialogue into his film. Moore also didn?t include the number of known terrorists that would spend time at one of the many palaces Saddam owned. The fact that suicide bombers and other forms of terror attacks were funded, undisguised, in Israel (among other places) by Saddam was thoughtfully absent in the film as well. When Saddam invaded Kuwait he took prisoners including Americans, which with the assignation attempt by the Iraqi secret police on the former President Bush disproves the statement made that no Iraqi has harmed, killed or threatened an American citizen. Happy times in Iraq? Well if you perceive dancing in the streets after the 9/11 attacks a happy Iraq then yes. After the attacks it was Saddam?s regime that openly celebrated and ordered the celebration to be broadcasted on Iraqi TV, none of which ever made it into Moore?s film of course. The suffering of those who spoke against Saddam, his rapist older son, his Hitleristic genocide to his own countrymen.... none of that made it into his film. Moore went for your heart strings when he showed the bombing of Iraq and several moments when pictures of dead Iraqi?s were displayed on the big screen but fails to clue you in that the explosions you see are the palaces, police and military targets. He fails to mention that those who oppose US forces, unlike civilized militia, don?t wear uniforms and have absolutely no problem attacking the ?enemy? from a stranger?s home, place of worship or even in a hospital. Moore never tells you that to a terrorist or Saddam supporter a civilian means nothing. Moore?s film directs you to believe that Saddam was a good man, his citizens led productive happy lives and he had no agenda with terrorism across the globe.

So what about the Saudi?s? Well the FBI did in fact question the visiting Saudi?s before they left US soil. The theory that the Saudi?s and the Bush?s are hand in hand chums is ludicrous. If this were so liberating Iraq into a democracy would never have happened as the Saudi?s oppose it and everything the Bush admin has spoken. There is Saudi money in the US but they aren?t the only outside money being invested in US business. What about Microsoft? There is Saudi money invested in MS but they didn?t have a profit surge directly linked to the war. GM however did as did many other companies that make US military weapons, software, vehicles clothing and other various needed supplies. Funny thing is none of them have Saudi money invested or a link to the Bush family but Moore must not have felt it important to mention any of this.

One thing Moore did right was include the minorities and poor in his film just like he has in the past. A Michael Moore film just wouldn?t be the same without his finger pointing to the poor masses and minorities then blaming the rich or large corporations but unlike past films (since the bad people change with every film) it was Bush?s fault this time. The facts have seemed to slip off Michael?s clipboard when he was writing this section of the film as well. The fact is Caucasian?s are still signing up for military duty more then minorities. Schools located in ?rich? sections of town get just as many recruiters as other schools. You still have to be tested to join the military so that means in today?s US military Forest Gump wouldn?t be accepted.

In all his ramblings he only convinced me of three things.

1. He lives in his own world where his reality is somehow different then the rest of our?s.
2. He can contradict himself quite well (saying we didn?t send enough troops in an anti war film and the govt didn?t take enough warnings seriously but warn too much now as just two examples)
3. He truly, honestly, intensely and with great passion undeniably hates George W. Bush with all of his being.

As I said before I am not a Bush supporter and I think we should have had the world's blessing before taking ANY action. I, however, can not agree with this film. It is outright propaganda the likes of which haven?t been seen since Hitler Germany or Communist Russia. For a film that was meant to outright slap the President I honestly think it will end up helping him in the upcoming election. Moore displayed a one sided and sometimes even made up view of the events of the Bush presidency. Unfortunately for Moore there are people in this country that are intelligent and can think for themselves that will see this film for what it truly is. But what more can you expect from a man who has been quoted as saying Americans are stupid and if the hostages on the planes during 9/11 werent all scared white people it wouldnt have happened.... IMO Moore is the lowest form of lying biggot.

you expect us to read THAT?!!! :lol: :lol:

you're too optimistic! :wink:
 

justin syder

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i did read it and it un-biasedly proved what i was tryin to say, in a more elaborate manner.

blaming the rich, corporations or the prez for the problems of the poor and other things doesnt help america. neither does moore and his movies.
 

Renesis

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you don't want to understand so I won't waste more time on you, stay in your imaginary world where everyone likes bush and USA and where you're seen as heroes all over the world and where you're doing war for peace.
:roll:

and YES, that's sarcasm
 
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