Felipe Massa had a dream...

Ironlord

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...quite literally.

Some of you will have missed
this BBC blog:
Massa spent much of Monday's test session snoozing in Ferrari's motorhome, even though the five-star Montecastillo Resort where he is staying is right next to the circuit.

...

The 27-year-old wants races to be shorter, reasoning: "In the last 15 laps nobody cares about the race".
If Massa's suggestion had been taken up in 2008, things could have been different for the Brazilian.
Let's see; instead of retiring from the Hungarian GP because of engine failure with three laps to go, he would have won the race and that would eventually have been enough to pip Lewis Hamilton to the 2008 title.
There's a comment at the end:

That'd be interesting.... remove the last 15 laps from every race last year (i.e. Australia '08 finished on lap 43 instead of 58) and tot up all the points. That would be an interesting blog entry. See who benefits most, or see who wakes up most at the end!
Now, we will see how it'd turn out if every race had been stopped 15 laps before the end - or after the pit stops for the top eight have been finalised, if (as in the case in Australia) they were still going on at the 15-lap cutoff point! And it's all thanks to lovely, lovely FORIX... how did I do without this site for so long?

Are you bracing yourselves for the most anorakish post since... the last time vikirad posted here? Then I'll begin!

AUSTRALIA
Classification after 58 laps: Hamilton, Heidfeld, Rosberg, Alonso, Kovalainen, Nakajima, Bourdais, R?ikk?nen
Classification after 46 laps: Kovalainen, Hamilton, Heidfeld, Barrichello, Rosberg, Bourdais, Kubica, Alonso
Points: Kovalainen 10, Hamilton 8, Heidfeld 6, Barrichello 5, Rosberg 4, Bourdais 3, Kubica 2, Alonso 1

MALAYSIA
Classification after 56 laps: R?ikk?nen, Kubica, Kovalainen, Trulli, Hamilton, Heidfeld, Webber, Alonso
Classification after 46 laps: R?ikk?nen, Kubica, Kovalainen, Trulli, Hamilton, Heidfeld, Webber, Alonso
Points: Kovalainen 16, Hamilton 12, R?ikk?nen/Kubica 10, Heidfeld 9, Barrichello/Trulli 5, Webber/Rosberg 4, Bourdais 3, Alonso 2

BAHRAIN
Classification after 57 laps: Massa, R?ikk?nen, Kubica, Heidfeld, Kovalainen, Trulli, Webber, Rosberg
Classification after 48 laps: Massa, R?ikk?nen, Kubica, Heidfeld, Kovalainen, Trulli, Webber, Rosberg
Points: Kovalainen 20, R?ikk?nen 18, Kubica 16, Heidfeld 14, Hamilton 12, Massa 10, Trulli 8, Webber 6, Barrichello/Rosberg 5, Bourdais 3, Alonso 2

SPAIN
Classification after 66 laps: R?ikk?nen, Massa, Hamilton, Kubica, Webber, Button, Nakajima, Trulli
Classification after 55 laps: R?ikk?nen, Massa, Hamilton, Kubica, Webber, Button, Nakajima, Trulli
Points: R?ikk?nen 28, Kubica 21, Massa/Hamilton 18, Heidfeld 14, Webber 10, Trulli 9, Barrichello/Rosberg 5, Button/Bourdais 3, Nakajima/Alonso 2

TURKEY
Classification after 58 laps: Massa, Hamilton, R?ikk?nen, Kubica, Heidfeld, Alonso, Webber, Rosberg
Classification after 49 laps: Massa, Hamilton, R?ikk?nen, Kubica, Heidfeld, Alonso, Webber, Rosberg
Points: R?ikk?nen 34, Massa 28, Hamilton/Kubica 26, Kovalainen 20, Heidfeld 18, Webber 12, Trulli 9, Rosberg 6, Alonso/Barrichello 5, Button/Bourdais 3, Nakajima 2

MONACO
Classification after 76 laps: Hamilton, Kubica, Massa, Webber, Vettel, Barrichello, Nakajima, Kovalainen
Classification after 61 laps: Hamilton, Kubica, Massa, Sutil, R?ikk?nen, Webber, Barrichello, Nakajima
Points: R?ikk?nen 38, Hamilton 36, Massa/Kubica 34, Kovalainen 20, Heidfeld 18, Webber 15, Trulli 9, Barrichello/Rosberg 6, Sutil/Alonso 5, Button/Bordais 3, Vettel/Nakajima 2

CANADA
Classification after 70 laps: Kubica, Heidfeld, Coulthard, Glock, Massa, Trulli, Rosberg, Vettel
Classification after 55 laps: Kubica, Heidfeld, Coulthard, Barrichello, Glock, Trulli, Massa, Vettel
Points: Kubica 44, R?ikk?nen 38, Hamilton/Massa 36, Heidfeld 26, Kovalainen 20, Webber 15, Trulli 12, Barrichello 11, Rosberg/Coulthard 6, Sutil/Alonso 5, Glock 4, Vettel/Bourdais/Button 3, Nakajima 2

FRANCE
Classification after 70 laps: Massa, R?ikk?nen, Trulli, Kovalainen, Kubica, Piquet, Alonso
Classification after 55 laps: Massa, R?ikk?nen, Trulli, Kovalainen, Kubica, Alonso, Piquet
Points: Kubica 48, R?ikk?nen/Massa 46, Hamilton 36, Heidfeld 26, Kovalainen 25, Webber/Trulli 18, Barrichello 11, Alonso 7, Rosberg/Coulthard 6, Sutil 5, Glock 4, Bourdais/Vettel/Button 3, Nakajima 2, Piquet 1

GREAT BRITAIN
Classification after 60 laps: Hamilton, Heidfeld, Barrichello, R?ikk?nen, Kovalainen, Alonso, Trulli, Nakajima
Classification after 48 laps: Hamilton, Heidfeld, Barrichello, Kovalainen, Alonso, R?ikk?nen, Nakajima, Trulli
Points: R?ikk?nen 49, Kubica 48, Hamilton/Massa 46, Heidfeld 34, Kovalainen 30, Trulli 19, Webber 18, Barrichello 17, Alonso 11, Rosberg/Coulthard 6, Sutil 5, Nakajima/Glock 4, Vettel/Bourdais/Button 3, Piquet 1

GERMANY
Classification after 67 laps: Hamilton, Piquet, Massa, Heidfeld, Kovalainen, R?ikk?nen, Kubica, Vettel
Classification after 54 laps: Piquet, Massa, Hamilton, Heidfeld, Kovalainen, Kubica, R?ikk?nen, Trulli
Points: Massa 54, Hamilton 52, R?ikk?nen/Kubica 51, Heidfeld 39, Kovalainen 34, Trulli 20, Webber 18, Barrichello 17, Alonso/Piquet 11, Rosberg/Coulthard 6, Sutil 5, Nakajima/Glock 4. Vettel/Button/Bourdais 3

HUNGARY
Classification after 70 laps: Kovalainen, Glock, R?ikk?nen, Alonso, Hamilton, Piquet, Trulli, Kubica
Classification after 55 laps: Massa, Kovalainen, Glock, R?ikk?nen, Alonso, Hamilton, Piquet, Trulli
Points: Massa 64, R?ikk?nen 56, Hamilton 55, Kubica 51, Kovalainen 42, Heidfeld 39, Trulli 21, Webber 18, Barrichello 17, Alonso 15, Piquet 13, Glock 10, Coulthard/Rosberg 6, Sutil 5, Nakajima 4, Bourdais/Vettel/Button 3

EUROPE
Classification after 57 laps: Massa, Hamilton, Kubica, Kovalainen, Trulli, Vettel, Glock, Rosberg
Classification after 44 laps: Massa, Hamilton, Kubica, Kovalainen, Trulli, R?ikk?nen, Vettel, Glock
Points: Massa 74, Hamilton 63, R?ikk?nen 59, Kubica 57, Kovalainen 47, Heidfeld 39, Trulli 25, Webber 18, Barrichello 17, Alonso 15, Piquet 13, Glock 11, Coulthard/Rosberg 6, Sutil/Vettel 5, Nakajima 4, Bourdais/Button 3

BELGIUM
Classification after 44 laps: Massa, Heidfeld, Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Kubica, Bourdais, Webber
Classification after 34 laps: R?ikk?nen, Hamilton, Massa, Alonso, Bourdais, Vettel, Heidfeld, Kubica
Points: Massa 80, Hamilton 71, R?ikk?nen 69, Kubica 58, Kovalainen 47, Heidfeld 41, Trulli 25, Alonso 20, Webber 18, Barrichello 17, Piquet 13, Glock 11, Vettel 8, Bourdais 7, Rosberg/Coulthard 6, Sutil 5, Nakajima 4, Button 3

ITALY
Classification after 53 laps: Vettel, Kovalainen, Kubica, Alonso, Heidfeld, Massa, Hamilton, Webber
Classification after 38 laps: Vettel, Kovalainen, Kubica, Alonso, Heidfeld, Massa, Hamilton, Webber
Points: Massa 83, Hamilton 73, R?ikk?nen 69, Kubica 64, Kovalainen 55, Heidfeld 45, Trulli/Alonso 25, Webber 19, Vettel 18, Barrichello 17, Piquet 13, Glock 11, Bourdais 7, Rosberg/Coulthard 6, Sutil 5, Nakajima 4, Button 3

SINGAPORE
Classification after 61 laps: Alonso, Rosberg, Hamilton, Glock, Vettel, Heidfeld, Coulthard, Nakajima
Classification after 51 laps: Alonso, Rosberg, Hamilton, Glock, R?ikk?nen, Vettel, Heidfeld, Coulthard
Points: Massa 83, Hamilton 79, R?ikk?nen 73, Kubica 64, Kovalainen 55, Heidfeld 47, Alonso 35, Trulli 25, Vettel 21, Webber 19, Barrichello 17, Glock 16, Rosberg 14, Piquet 13, Coulthard/Bourdais 7, Sutil 5, Nakajima 4, Button 3

JAPAN
Classification after 67 laps: Alonso, Kubica, R?ikk?nen, Piquet, Trulli, Vettel, Massa, Webber
Classification after 54 laps: Alonso, Kubica, R?ikk?nen, Piquet, Trulli, Bourdais, Vettel, Webber
Points: Massa 83, Hamilton/R?ikk?nen 79, Kubica 72, Kovalainen 55, Heidfeld 47, Alonso 45, Trulli 29, Vettel 23, Webber 20, Piquet 18, Barrichello 17, Glock 16, Rosberg 14, Bourdais 10, Coulthard 7, Sutil 5, Nakajima 4, Button 3

CHINA
Classification after 56 laps: Hamilton, Massa, R?ikk?nen, Alonso, Heidfeld, Kubica, Glock, Piquet
Classification after 42 laps: Hamilton, Massa, R?ikk?nen, Alonso, Heidfeld, Kubica, Glock, Piquet
Points: Massa 91, Hamilton 89, R?ikk?nen 85, Kubica 75, Kovalainen 55, Heidfeld 51, Alonso 50, Trulli 29, Vettel 23, Webber 20, Piquet 19, Glock 18, Barrichello 17, Rosberg 14, Bourdais 10, Coulthard 7, Sutil 5, Nakajima 4, Button 3

BRAZIL
Classification after 71 laps: Massa, Alonso, R?ikk?nen, Vettel, Hamilton, Glock, Kovalainen, Trulli
Classification after 56 laps: Massa, Alonso, R?ikk?nen, Hamilton, Vettel, Kovalainen, Glock, Trulli
Points: Massa 101, Hamilton 94, R?ikk?nen 91, Kubica 75, Kovalainen/Alonso 58, Heidfeld 51, Trulli 30, Vettel 27, Glock/Webber 20, Piquet 19, Barrichello 17, Rosberg 14, Bourdais 10, Coulthard 7, Sutil 5, Nakajima 4, Button 3

And what that does for the constructors...

Ferrari 192, McLaren 152, BMW 126, Renault 77, Toyota 50, Toro Rosso 37, Red Bull 27, Honda 20, Williams 18, Force India 5, Super Aguri 0.

The conclusion: it's not just Felipe who wants the races to be shorter; so would Kimi, Adrian Sutil and Nelson Piquet as well!
 

Xeon SX

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What is he talking about, the most interesting parts are the start and finish. If we didnt have the last 15laps in spa we wouldnt see lewis/Kimi fight or epic championship win in Brazil. That is so low for Massa to look for what to blame for his result.
 

justvisiting

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I sort of agree with him, most of the races become processional. The lewis/kimi spa race was down to the weather. Any variation is always due to the weather, and if the races are shorter, that is still a variable regardless.

the only thing to the end of the races, is watching if people screw up due to lack of concentration or fitness. Some may argue that is what makes it sport though.
 

AnGuRuSO

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What is he talking about, the most interesting parts are the start and finish. If we didnt have the last 15laps in spa we wouldnt see lewis/Kimi fight or epic championship win in Brazil. That is so low for Massa to look for what to blame for his result.
ahahahaha!!!! Just because you remove 15 laps doesn't mean there isn't going to be a finish!
 

pfrocker

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This is stupid...

look, the teams react to different conditions. If a race is shorter a lot of other thing change as well: the drivers will drive more aggressively not thinking about saving the tires, the pit stop strategies will be different, and even the way the engines and the car are built will be different as they wont have to endure as much stress.

Changing something like this, will change a lot of things and any result can occur. I understand Massa is still sad about what happen last year, but come on put it behind you and focus on this year.
 

GaryC

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Meh. As exciting as it is, what has been, has been.
 

Sir Stiggington

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This is stupid...

look, the teams react to different conditions. If a race is shorter a lot of other thing change as well: the drivers will drive more aggressively not thinking about saving the tires, the pit stop strategies will be different, and even the way the engines and the car are built will be different as they wont have to endure as much stress.

Changing something like this, will change a lot of things and any result can occur. I understand Massa is still sad about what happen last year, but come on put it behind you and focus on this year.
x2 :)
 

ladora

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This is stupid...

look, the teams react to different conditions. If a race is shorter a lot of other thing change as well: the drivers will drive more aggressively not thinking about saving the tires, the pit stop strategies will be different, and even the way the engines and the car are built will be different as they wont have to endure as much stress.

Changing something like this, will change a lot of things and any result can occur. I understand Massa is still sad about what happen last year, but come on put it behind you and focus on this year.

x3
 

Ironlord

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Great post Ironlord. It's pretty interesting to see how it could have been. :hmm:
I could do it again - actually cutting off at 15 laps before the end, which is, about half the time, right in the middle of the second round of pit stops. That'd really shake things up.

Although, it took an hour and a half to compile what you see above...

Next stop: how it'd have been under the 1990 points system, where only the best 11 results of the 16 races that season counted to the total - I suspect it'd have been 12 out of 18 had they done that for the 2008 season. And it was 9-6-4-3-2-1 in those days, so there's more advantage to the win than now, but less than for 1991-2002.

EDIT: here are the results! I've applied the strict rules of the 1990 season - the best 11 of the results count for the final total. Gross totals are shown in brackets if there has been any change.

Massa 76(77), Hamilton 71(75), R?ikk?nen 54, Kubica 47(48), Alonso 40, Heidfeld 36, Kovalainen 33, Vettel 20, Trulli/Glock 13, Rosberg/Piquet 10, Webber 6, Barrichello 5, Coulthard 4, Nakajima/Button 1, Bourdais/Fisichella/Sutil/Sato/Davidson 0.

Ferrari 130(131), McLaren 104(108), BMW 83(84), Renault 50, Toyota 26, Toro Rosso 20, Williams 11, Red Bull 10, Honda 6, Force India & Super Aguri 0.

Massa would have won the championship irrespective of deductions under this system - he lost a sixth place, whereas Lewis lost two fifths. Calls from the tifosi for this system to be implemented for 2010 in three, two...
 
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Dogbert

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Stupid as it is, I see his point... six of those races didn't change at all after having 15 laps lopped off.
 

Sir Stiggington

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Massa would have won the championship irrespective of deductions under this system - he lost a sixth place, whereas Lewis lost two fifths. Calls from the tifosi for this system to be implemented for 2010 in three, two...
I'm sorry, but all this "how it would have been" is utter bullshit. If the rules would have been different, the teams would react differently to them, and the champion would probably have been the same in most of the years.
 

Ironlord

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I'm sorry, but all this "how it would have been" is utter bullshit. If the rules would have been different, the teams would react differently to them, and the champion would probably have been the same in most of the years.
Interesting, isn't it, that I get a negative reaction from he with the "LEWIS HAMILTON WORLD CHAMPION" banner in his signature, whereas I get Gman-Ferrari agreeing with me for what may well be the first time ever...

Three and a half days to go until Melbourne qualifying, so I'm going to scarper again before this post and others turn into the Lewis/McMerc versus Alonso versus Ferrari flame-and-negrep-fests that I'm fully expecting. Prove me wrong, people.
 

ladora

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I could do it again - actually cutting off at 15 laps before the end, which is, about half the time, right in the middle of the second round of pit stops. That'd really shake things up.

Although, it took an hour and a half to compile what you see above...

Next stop: how it'd have been under the 1990 points system, where only the best 11 results of the 16 races that season counted to the total - I suspect it'd have been 12 out of 18 had they done that for the 2008 season. And it was 9-6-4-3-2-1 in those days, so there's more advantage to the win than now, but less than for 1991-2002.

EDIT: here are the results! I've applied the strict rules of the 1990 season - the best 11 of the results count for the final total. Gross totals are shown in brackets if there has been any change.

Massa 76(77), Hamilton 71(75), R?ikk?nen 54, Kubica 47(48), Alonso 40, Heidfeld 36, Kovalainen 33, Vettel 20, Trulli/Glock 13, Rosberg/Piquet 10, Webber 6, Barrichello 5, Coulthard 4, Nakajima/Button 1, Bourdais/Fisichella/Sutil/Sato/Davidson 0.

Ferrari 130(131), McLaren 104(108), BMW 83(84), Renault 50, Toyota 26, Toro Rosso 20, Williams 11, Red Bull 10, Honda 6, Force India & Super Aguri 0.

Massa would have won the championship irrespective of deductions under this system - he lost a sixth place, whereas Lewis lost two fifths. Calls from the tifosi for this system to be implemented for 2010 in three, two...


Wow, that's interesting. I wonder if there would have been any change to the 2007 season if each race had 15 laps chopped off.


(Wait, you're not Massa in disguise, are you? :hmm: :lol: )
 

Sir Stiggington

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Interesting, isn't it, that I get a negative reaction from he with the "LEWIS HAMILTON WORLD CHAMPION" banner in his signature, whereas I get Gman-Ferrari agreeing with me for what may well be the first time ever...
It has nothing to do with that. You can't just lop off 15 laps, because it brings you in the middle of a pitstop window. Do you really think a team would pit their car 2 laps before the end? No. 17 laps? Sure. You know they would pit at different times, and the result would most probably be the same (excluding reliability and weather issues).
 

pfrocker

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Interesting, isn't it, that I get a negative reaction from he with the "LEWIS HAMILTON WORLD CHAMPION" banner in his signature, whereas I get Gman-Ferrari agreeing with me for what may well be the first time ever...

Three and a half days to go until Melbourne qualifying, so I'm going to scarper again before this post and others turn into the Lewis/McMerc versus Alonso versus Ferrari flame-and-negrep-fests that I'm fully expecting. Prove me wrong, people.
Read my post, I'm a Ferrari fan myself. It has nothing to do with who we are supporting, it's just logic.
 

justvisiting

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I think Ironlord himself knows it just logic, its just a 'what if' situation for amusement prior to the opening practice.

You can't honestly try to change the rules in retrospect, but that doesnt mean its not fun to.
 

mclarensmps

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This is stupid...

look, the teams react to different conditions. If a race is shorter a lot of other thing change as well: the drivers will drive more aggressively not thinking about saving the tires, the pit stop strategies will be different, and even the way the engines and the car are built will be different as they wont have to endure as much stress.

Changing something like this, will change a lot of things and any result can occur. I understand Massa is still sad about what happen last year, but come on put it behind you and focus on this year.
You posted exactly what was on my mind
 

otispunkmeyer

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i think the races could do with being shorter... infact, i really like the way things happen in touring cars... some sprint races and a longer one with winners getting ballast and stuff for the next race.

last year i lost count the number of times i wished the race would be over already, especially when you got drivers who play the long game and just kinda wait things out for a while. i wanna see shorter, more aggressive races...where there isnt time to wait it out, you just have to push.

this could put some of the lesser teams in the mix too, and the ones with a history of bad reliability. heck you could even argue it'll cut costs and emissions or whatever, keep the greens happy

ALMS has long races, but then that is endurance racing...but theres numerous classes on track, so there always plenty of action to keep you entertained.
 
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