Ferdinand Piech leaves VW supervisory board

Ferdinand Piech leaves VW supervisory board

Besides, I'd rather have a car with a risk of an engine failure than having to fear the airbag could explode in my face every moment...
 
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On the subject of VW's reputation in the USA and owners not taking proper care of their cars, the issue still comes back to the fact that none of these things are unique to VW. Japanese car brands didn't earn their shining reputations because their customers take better care of their vehicles, if anything they probably treat their cars worse. It's because they can withstand all that abuse and neglect and keep on working, that customers put so much trust in them.

Of course with the way things change so quickly, it's hard to know when reputations are outdated. Most of the horror stories I've heard about VW's concerned older products no longer in production. The same is true with the positive stories I've heard about Japanese cars, most of them are related to cars that are no longer built as well. But then you have car companies like Hyundai/Kia. They were literally a joke out here, not too long ago. They were considered disposable cars. But they've worked hard and turned that reputation completely around. They are very respectable now.

I really don't know what to think about VW. My parents were making noises about possibly buying a new Jetta for my mom and I wasn't sure what to tell them. Assuming the car is reliable, it could be a great choice, since it has a much more upscale look and feel than much of the competition. But VW dealerships aren't well known for being very friendly or helpful and the vehicle warranties aren't very good, which gives the impression that they don't stand behind their products. I'll probably just advise my parents to stick with Japanese cars, which have served them flawlessly for the past 15 years.
 
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On the subject of VW's reputation in the USA and owners not taking proper care of their cars, the issue still comes back to the fact that none of these things are unique to VW. Japanese car brands didn't earn their shining reputations because their customers take better care of their vehicles, if anything they probably treat their cars worse. It's because they can withstand all that abuse and neglect and keep on working, that customers put so much trust in them.

Of course with the way things change so quickly, it's hard to know when reputations are outdated. Most of the horror stories I've heard about VW's concerned older products no longer in production. The same is true with the positive stories I've heard about Japanese cars, most of them are related to cars that are no longer built as well. But then you have car companies like Hyundai/Kia. They were literally a joke out here, not too long ago. They were considered disposable cars. But they've worked hard and turned that reputation completely around. They are very respectable now.

I really don't know what to think about VW. My parents were making noises about possibly buying a new Jetta for my mom and I wasn't sure what to tell them. Assuming the car is reliable, it could be a great choice, since it has a much more upscale look and feel than much of the competition. But VW dealerships aren't well known for being very friendly or helpful and the vehicle warranties aren't very good, which gives the impression that they don't stand behind their products. I'll probably just advise my parents to stick with Japanese cars, which have served them flawlessly for the past 15 years.

This feels like its likely the mental math that many buyers go through if they even consider a VW product.

A long warranty would help to dispell the whole "these guys have near zero confidence in the product" perception that many have about the brand.

While some would argue that "What a short warranty tells me is that the product is good enough that it doesn't need it." most don't feel that way here especially regarding a brand with such a checkered reputation.

As for the Jetta in particular, other cars in segment have more substantial feeling interiors and look just as classy on the outside. A Focus Titanium, for example, has a fantastic and high-quality interior IMO. While many design details aren't my cup of tea, a lot of critics say that the Kia Forte also has a great interior.
 
About warranty: I have no idea how the conditions are in USA but Kia also used to advertise with a 7-year warranty here and got shitloads of customer complaints because apparently a lot of conditions have to be fulfilled to really make it last that long.

One problem in particular is that as a customer you have to prove that the damage was Kia's fault and not something that is connected to the way the vehicle was treated. For instance I read about clutch problems where Kia plainly said it was the customer's driving style that caused the failure...

I rather have a 2-year warranty I can rely on than having to consider dozens of ifs and whens with a longer warranty.

Besides, if you really want a longer warranty, VW offers if for some extra money. In my case it would have been a few hundred bucks. Not much when you consider what nonsense optional extras many customers order for loads of money.
 
I've heard of warranty claims being denied for failure to keep up with your scheduled services, but that's about it. As you guys said earlier, some owners don't take proper care of their vehicles and when something goes wrong, they immediately blame the car company, even when they've been neglecting their services. I imagine it's easier than ever for car companies to know when something doesn't add up with a mechanical failure, what with all the computers these cars are packed with.

Having an issue while under warranty at least gives you a bargaining chip. Without that, you're on your own.
 
I'm just going to point out that tiny tiny Subaru outsold VW in NA, despite basically having 3 cars.
 
I'm just going to point out that tiny tiny Subaru outsold VW in NA, despite basically having 3 cars.

Really? That's ridiculous.
 
:nod: VW as a brand only sells about 6% of its production to the US.


By contrast, VW as a brand sold 100 times as many cars over here as Subaru did :lol: while Subaru sold 2.5 times as many cars in Japan as VW did...
 
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Yup. VW as a brand ranked 13th in terms of sales last year in America. The only non-luxury brands it beat out were Chrysler, Mazda, Mitsubishi, and the smaller niche brands like Scion, Fiat, etc.

And of those, Chrysler also only has 3 cars (200, 300 and Town & Country), and Mitsubishi only sells 2 (Right? The Outlander and the Mirage? *checks their website* Well, I'll be damned...they still make/sell offer 2015 Lancer/Evo, Outlander Sport and i-Miev?)

Mazda has a "full range" of cars, though, so that's a more-fair comparison, I suppose.
 
Subaru has at least five though - BRZ, Impreza/WRX, Legacy/Outback, Forester, XV... and 2014 sales might even include the Tribeca as well.

It's more like BRZ, Impreza/XV (XV is what used to be the Impreza Outback sport basically), WRX/STi (prez is still rolling on old chassis), Legacy/Outback/Forester (all essentially same car). They mostly sell the Outback and Forester though, with some prezs in there, WRX/STi sells well for what it is but still relatively niche and we all know how "well" BRZ is doing (worse than Miata).
 
Subaru has at least five though - BRZ, Impreza/WRX, Legacy/Outback, Forester, XV... and 2014 sales might even include the Tribeca as well.

True, and that makes it a more fair comparison to VW and Mazda. I wouldn't be surprised at all that they are out-selling Chrysler just based on the number of models they offer/number of segments they compete in.
 
It's more like BRZ, Impreza/XV (XV is what used to be the Impreza Outback sport basically), WRX/STi (prez is still rolling on old chassis), Legacy/Outback/Forester (all essentially same car). They mostly sell the Outback and Forester though, with some prezs in there, WRX/STi sells well for what it is but still relatively niche and we all know how "well" BRZ is doing (worse than Miata).

If you're bunching the XV and Impreza together, using that logic VW basically sells Golfs and derivatives, some Passats and derivatives, and some Touaregs in the US... Three cars, basically :tease:
 
It's more like BRZ, Impreza/XV (XV is what used to be the Impreza Outback sport basically), WRX/STi (prez is still rolling on old chassis), Legacy/Outback/Forester (all essentially same car). They mostly sell the Outback and Forester though, with some prezs in there, WRX/STi sells well for what it is but still relatively niche and we all know how "well" BRZ is doing (worse than Miata).

The Forester shares a platform with the Impreza/XV Crosstrek.

/pedantic
 
bone, I get your point, but you still have to consider that a motor vehicle is a very, very complex mechanical and electronical piece of machinery. Sometimes it astounds me that ordinary human beings without any idea of how any of it works can actually make it work, driving a car is so easy compared to how complex all of the technical innards are. Even after more than a century with the motor vehicle you can't really expect it to be tough enough for it being able to be abused every single day of its life for ten years (at least). Especially since cars have to move forward technically and push the boundaries in every possible direction (and that's the point!), otherwise we'd be stuck in the 30s or whatever.
CVPI can do it, why can't Ze Germans?
 
CVPI can do it, why can't Ze Germans?

In the Finnish inspection statistics the worst 2011 non-vans of brands sold in the US were:
  • Ford Ka
  • Hyundai Santa Fe
  • Fiat 500
  • Kia Sorento
  • Mazda 5
  • Ford Galaxy
  • Ford Mondeo
  • Subaru Legacy
  • Ford S-Max
  • Mercedes E
And many many many more (including the Forester) before the first non-van VW, the Touran. How come SUBARU, HYUNDAI, MAZDA and other US-based-member recommended brands are doing so much worse than VW?
 
Ferdinand Piech leaves VW supervisory board

German T?V statistics speak the same language. VAG products usually rank very high -- among the Japanese cars --, while U.S. Cars and Korean cars are usually at the bottom together with Peugeot, Dacia and Fiat. Mind you, those are factual statistics, not owner surveys.
 
If you're bunching the XV and Impreza together, using that logic VW basically sells Golfs and derivatives, some Passats and derivatives, and some Touaregs in the US... Three cars, basically :tease:
And they can't even do that right!

- - - Updated - - -

In the Finnish inspection statistics the worst 2011 non-vans of brands sold in the US were:
  • Ford Ka
  • Hyundai Santa Fe
  • Fiat 500
  • Kia Sorento
  • Mazda 5
  • Ford Galaxy
  • Ford Mondeo
  • Subaru Legacy
  • Ford S-Max
  • Mercedes E
And many many many more (including the Forester) before the first non-van VW, the Touran. How come SUBARU, HYUNDAI, MAZDA and other US-based-member recommended brands are doing so much worse than VW?

- - - Updated - - -

German T?V statistics speak the same language. VAG products usually rank very high -- among the Japanese cars --, while U.S. Cars and Korean cars are usually at the bottom together with Peugeot, Dacia and Fiat. Mind you, those are factual statistics, not owner surveys.
Perhaps, and this is key here, different places have different driving and environmental conditions causing different cars to have different reliability? Like we been flipping saying all along!

This is anecdotal to an extent but of old cars I see on the road most are late 90s early 00s Subarus and Toyotas, newer cars are a mix of mostly Japanese and now Korean stuff in the "regular car" bracket and Audi, VW, Lexus and Infiniti in the more premium space. What I hardly ever see is VWs either new or old.

VW's biggest issue in the US is that their boring* but not boring in the right way in that they have pretty much no compelling products. Rick already mentioned CUVs, like it or not that's where most of the money is now and VW just doesn't make anything compelling in that space. Spectre already mentioned shitty warranty being a problem as well, most people don't want to deal with cars or care about them a whole lot, knowing that you can keep the car for 5 years and not have to worry about paying for shit going wrong is a big selling point. Add to it the fact that VW maintenance is not far off from Audi cost wise and it makes for a very bad buy. And lastly their problem is image, they are still that company that made the Beetle to most Americans and they have not done anything to shake that image of. Alternative to that is the Golf hellaflush crowd, not sure if that would really help them tho...

*Golf is an exception somewhat but hot hatch market in the US is pretty tiny and even there they have to compete with Ford's ST models and previously MS3 and the WRX/STi.
 
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Perhaps, and this is key here, different places have different driving and environmental conditions causing different cars to have different reliability? Like we been flipping saying all along!

This is anecdotal ...

Exactly. Do you have actual factual statistics (no "my radio doesn't work like I want it to, this car sucks" or "I know like 17, count 'em', 17, Volkswagen owners. They've given them nothing but trouble")? Volkswagens have been quite popular in warmer climes (South Africa, Brazil), so maybe it isn't even about the environmental conditions.

And you not seeing VWs on the road? Well of course you don't if they only have like 6% market share..
 
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