Ford beats Toyota in quality rankings... no seriously.

UMass

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I rarely take initially quality seriously I remember the last time this happened when GM won initial quality. As a Toyota owner long term quality is all I care for and the true reason why Toyota is on top at the moment. Toyota has never been perfect and in the end it comes down to how well Toyota can satisfy customers even when problems occur. My dad's 2000 Avalon had some issues that shouldn't have occured apparent to the dealer and fixed with no charge. His 2004 Avalon is probably his most driven car since the Cressida I drive clocking 80,000+ kms. The only problems it ever had...a flat tire and a dead battery...things not at all related Toyota's quality.
I agree, someone doesn't like cups holders and ratings take a dive.
But the press eats this kinda of lists up like crack.
I would never by a Ford/Mazda/Linc/Jag/ over a Toyota/Scion/Lexus/Subaru.
 

I<3myV8

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Toyota is a higher quality car than Ford. I would put my money on it. Over here Fords aren't very well made.

I live very close to Detroit. American cars in generally have an abysmal resale value compared to Toyota or Honda. Also, I hear all sorts of horror stories about Ford or GM cars having serious faults while still under a warranty.

i think some of the drops in japanese reliability has to due to fact more and more japanese cars are now made in america. a couple years ago, about 10% of toyotas and hondas were still made in japan and shipped over (FYI if the hondas hood has a white plastic cover, its made in america, a clear plastic cover, its made in japan). with the addition of new american plants and increased demand for the japanese premium brands (acura and lexus), the number of imported hondas and toyotas has basically fallen to zero. maybe this has had an effect.

It's due to the fact Toyota has become the world's biggest manufacturer. The more cars you make the tougher it is to control the quality.
 
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sonza68

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Bleh, whatever. The Tacoma won in this test, the Ford truck did not. I used to have a Ford and it died before it even hit 50,000 miles. I've seen Toyotas with over 300,000 miles on them. As far as every day cars go, I'd take a Toyota over a Ford any day of the week.

And I've seen Fords with over 300,000 miles on them and Toyotas with early engine failures (<60k). In my experience, most cars are capable of 200,000+ miles if the owners are willing to maintain them.

Personally, I own 3 Fords and have no desire to own a Toyota. It's all about personal preference.
 

bobo_1314

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I always believe the keep-it-simple rule; the simpler the design, the fewer problems the car will have. Toyota is going crazy these days in coming up with all those electronic gizmos like automatic parallel parking system and super advanced computer-controlled stability device and all that stuff, so it's hard to keep things working perfectly.

Like seriously, do we need all those electronic devices to drive safely on the road? Do those gizmos make driving easier? Or they make us lazier, and in return we make more mistakes? We don't bother turning our heads to shoulder check before making a lane change because there is a blindspot sensor. We quit turning our heads and looking at the rear windshield when backing up because we rely on a backup camera?
 

thedguy

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Toyota is a higher quality car than Ford. I would put my money on it.

I live very close to Detroit. American cars in generally have an abysmal resale value compared to Toyota or Honda. Also, I hear all sorts of horror stories about Ford or GM cars having serious faults while still under a warranty.

Honda has had a SERIOUS bit of trouble with a few hundred thousand automatic transmissions. A lot of people don't know about it, but it's true.

It's due to the fact Toyota has become the world's biggest manufacturer. The more cars you make the tougher it is to control the quality.

I'm willing to bet it's the manufacturing tolerances coming out. No matter how well you engineer something there is going to be a rate of failure. When you sell cars at the rate Toyota, GM, and Ford, that small (pulling a number from my ass here) 1% of failure can result in several hundred thousand cars.

I always believe the keep-it-simple rule; the simpler the design, the fewer problems the car will have. Toyota is going crazy these days in coming up with all those electronic gizmos like automatic parallel parking system and super advanced computer-controlled stability device and all that stuff, so it's hard to keep things working perfectly.

Like seriously, do we need all those electronic devices to drive safely on the road? Do those gizmos make driving easier? Or they make us lazier, and in return we make more mistakes? We don't bother turning our heads to shoulder check before making a lane change because there is a blindspot sensor. We quit turning our heads and looking at the rear windshield when backing up because we rely on a backup camera?

Well your talking about Lexus' top range car. If they didn't put much of that stuff on it, then they'd be behind the curve in that segment, and much of that segment is about the stupid shit you can put in a car.

I'm more interested in the fact that their engineering seems to be more focused on this stuff then their bulletproof engines. Look at the Tundra v8 cam issue.
 
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Jay

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(FYI if the hondas hood has a white plastic cover, its made in america, a clear plastic cover, its made in japan).

Another way is to look at the first digit of the VIN. "J" is from Japan, "1,4,5" is from America, "3" is from Mexico, and "2" is from Canada..
 

Blind_Io

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Or you could just look on the sticker, it breaks down what percentage of parts came from what countries.
 

jeffy777

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And I've seen Fords with over 300,000 miles on them and Toyotas with early engine failures (<60k).

Yeah well, the proof is in the pudding, as far as my experience goes.

I've had two vans in the past 10 years. The first was a Ford Econoline. Over time, it developed several major problems, which I paid to have fixed, but it finally puked it's last at merely 50,000, at which time I traded it in to the dealership (had to tow it in). I did my best to keep it going, to no avail.

I then bought a Toyota Sienna and my experience has been completely different. I am now very close to 100,000 miles and I'll I've done to it is have the oil changed and maintained the tires. Couldn't be happier :)

Toyota's have great re-sale values for a reason.
 

NecroJoe

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Well, you went from a vehicle made pretty much for purely commercial use, to a passenger "mass market" minivan. I could go the other way, and say that my dad's old Toyota pick-up truck's body rusted away within 3 years in Wisconsin, (pretty much all that was left was the welds themselves) and my uncles Freightliner has 600,000 miles on it, and it's not rusting at all. Granted, the Van should have lasted more than 50,000 though. Sounds like you got a lemon. It shouldn't, but it happens. My mom and her best friend both bought 1992 Ford Explorer Sports within the same week. My mom's has roughly 270,000 on it, and still drives it every day. Her friend's spent more time in the shop than on the road, and they donated it with 70,000 on it.
 

Blind_Io

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^ exactly. One would expect a commercial-grade vehicle built on a truck chassis to last longer than 50K, and certainly longer than a light-duty consumer-grade vehicle.

What year Toyota truck? Some of them were never meant to deal with those winters. Also, some of those Frightliners use plastic or aluminum body panels, so it might not be a fair comparison.
 

thedguy

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Older Toyota Pick-ups (and gars in general) are notorious for their rust problems. Even in Southern California a no rust 80's Toyota truck is hard to find. Guaranteed the engine will still be running like a champ though :D

One thing I've noticed here in Missouri is old Ford Rangers and Chevy S-10's are rather rare. On occasion I'll see a rusted out chunk of metal in a field with the remnants of an S-10 badge on it. Their full-size pick-ups faired quite a bit better.
 
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awdrifter

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Yea, cars built in America definitely have slightly lower quality. My dad's 2000 Accord Special Edition is has a Japanese built engine and trans, and it was assembled in Japan, we never got any problem. But I have read numberous non Japan assembled Accords having transmission problems.
 

gtrietsc

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Another reason for Toyota's good record of resale is low volume. The more rare something is, the better it will hold its value. Now that they are a major player though, unseating the Big Three, combined with more recalls than they have had in the past, we shall see how great the resale stays.

The only vehicle Toyota makes that is even remotely interesting to me right now is the FJ Cruiser. I think the new Tundra will appeal to some people - the same people that were first in line to buy the new Nissan Titan a few years ago, just to have something different.

I dunno if the same commercials for Tundra are playing in the rest of the US that are playing in Texas, but pretty much their entire campaign is "on Tundra, <insert part here> is BIGGER! That's what you want!" Totally unimpressed.
 

GM_IV

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Another reason for Toyota's good record of resale is low volume. The more rare something is, the better it will hold its value. Now that they are a major player though, unseating the Big Three, combined with more recalls than they have had in the past, we shall see how great the resale stays.
I don't think very many Toyotas are rare but I don't think rarity for a Toyota makes it sell well. A Toyota Paseo is rare but fetches little money. Its the popular Corolla and Camry which have made the Toyota brand good for resale because buyers can expect a long lasting car at a lower price. The Mark IV Supra has the most ridiculous resale rate thanks to the Fast and Furious movies, they cost more than some recent used cars even as a body. Supras are hardly a rare model compared to other cars.
I dunno if the same commercials for Tundra are playing in the rest of the US that are playing in Texas, but pretty much their entire campaign is "on Tundra, <insert part here> is BIGGER! That's what you want!" Totally unimpressed.
This is to address the concerns of some truck buyers that the Tundra was always too small and weak for American tastes. This version of the Tundra is the first time Toyota has actually produced a truck larger than its American rivals. Whether this is successful or not, we shall see.
 

gtrietsc

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I dont mean to say that Toyotas by and large are rare. Certainly they are not. But there is no question an Accord or Camry in the past has had lower production numbers. They were sold to rental fleets and corporate fleets either. In my experience, Accord and Camry owners tend to take care of their vehicles better too.
 

jetsetter

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Not to mention the fact that older Toyota engines are notoriously hard to kill.

That's the point I was trying to make. As soon as Toyota went away from their traditional "simple, low power, and reliable" formula they started to have problems. My 93 Toyota Pickup (Helix) will last for 500,000 miles and only ask for oil, I am not sure I can say the same thing about a new Tundra.
 

TC

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In my experience, Accord and Camry owners tend to take care of their vehicles better too.

That would have to be a case-by-case basis. One of my best friends has only owned Toyota's his whole life and I actually felt sorry for his cars. His old Lexus lost it's front wheel while he was driving, tore the lugs off, and went into oncoming traffic.
 

thedguy

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That's the point I was trying to make. As soon as Toyota went away from their traditional "simple, low power, and reliable" formula they started to have problems. My 93 Toyota Pickup (Helix) will last for 500,000 miles and only ask for oil, I am not sure I can say the same thing about a new Tundra.

You must have got one of the shitty ones :p

That thing should still have the 22r in it if it's the 4 cylinder. If it only lasts 500k miles you're trying to hard to keep it running. We've had 3 of those things in my family and they didn't seem to bat an eye at 500k. And I think they got oil changes every 15k miles (and we didn't use synthetic oil on 'em). Got those engines rocked.

The new Tundra apparently has a serious cam wear issue already. My brother tells me there is a camry or corolla that had an issue with the brakes wearing out every 8000 miles, including the rotors. I have put no effort into verifying it, so take it how you want.
 

tigger

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That thing should still have the 22r in it if it's the 4 cylinder. If it only lasts 500k miles you're trying to hard to keep it running. We've had 3 of those things in my family and they didn't seem to bat an eye at 500k. And I think they got oil changes every 15k miles (and we didn't use synthetic oil on 'em). Got those engines rocked.
A friend of mine had one that blew a head gasket around 200k, cracked the head and block, he said it was the first time it overheated, and that it didn't overheat by alot. That surprised me, I mean Toyota built them to be like a forklift engine or something absurd originally. Did any yours ever overheated?

Whats Toyotas cam issue? Do they run flat or something?
 
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