FTTX to the Housing

Galantti

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Okay i'm doing some pre research to the place i live about the FTTX (Fiber To The X) services. The place is an housing cooperative, with 30 "flats?".

The wires are 20 years old cat-3 cables (phone) so 100Mbits are out of the question, but vdsl and adsl are both good options as the caples are only about 200m long at the far end of the complex.

Also i have (some time ago) found other type of connection, it uses the tv-cables (like cable tv company's inet services)and it would allow 100Mbit lines via this centrilized tv box to diffrent "row's" (5 of these "row's" are in the complex).
I have tought about that every "flat" would have static ip from an specific range (example 10.1.12.1 -.30) and as i didn't use dhcp the ip's are specific to the "flat".
As from the housing cooperatives part, every flat would have 1/1Mbit as a base speed, and they could raise their speed up to 50Mbit/50Mbit via the "board of dicertors" (to save bandwidth in the 100Mbit line) [of course the speed is reduced if every flat uses their 50Mbit line at a max, the speed should only drop to 14Mbit per flat].

Now to my question:

Is it possible to reduce the network speed to specific ip from the centrilized place?
As the tv lan would work like a hub (it might us the diffrent housing row's tv-antenna as a hub, so 5xhubs connected to a gateway).
Like this:
Code:
Flat 1 has ip 10.1.12.2, and is owned by a grandma, so only 1Mbit speed.
Flat 2 has code monkey that has ip 10.1.12.10 and own http-server, 10Mbit speed.
Flat 3 has p2p user with ip 10.1.12.7 with some allowed ports, 50mbit speed

The tv cables are in star, with every row having its own aplifier and about 7 flats.
The "gateway" with the speed "reducer" would be in the centre of the star.


PS. there are some pre made FTTB services from diffrent ISP here, but with this housing cooperatives cat-3 cables, these would use adsl (and would be hooked to just 1 isp for inet services :( ).
So with my tv-inet it would allowe to every flat to decide the adsl provider (if they want to use it and they might not have to change the isp of their adsl).


Thanks in advance for your comments.
 

PacketCollision

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You can set maximum transmission rates relatively easily on the router, but I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to do.
 

Clegko

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I assume he's trying to set up a LAN in his apartment (similar) building, with people have a base speed, and if they pay more, they get faster speeds. Or something.
 

Galantti

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just what clegko sayd. :)

But with that setup the router is only in direct link to the 5 lan_to_coaxcial thinggys.
And from there in every where there is tv plug in the wall, there is coaxcial_to_lan thinggy build in the wall.

So nearly like those old bnc based networking, but with rj-45 connectors in the same plug as tv.

Well that was the idea, but as i don't find the place anymore with the technology, i might aswell as start looking those Xdsl boxes and try to convince that new modem is good.

Edit 2. so basicly the techlogy had cable modem integrated into the wall outlet.

Edit. in a picture, the rj-45 socket would be on top of these wallmounted tv-cable thinggys
1814-000.jpg


EDIT 3. i found it its from Teleste, and its called ETTH (Ethernet To The Home) way, and it is finnish company
ETTH info here
 
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PacketCollision

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A couple ideas: You could try the almost-never-used 100BASE-T4, if you can find the hardware. It allows for 100Mbit transfers over Cat3 cable. You could also try your luck at just doing 100Base-TX over Cat-3, it appears some people have had some luck, at least for short cable runs, although since it is in flagrant violation of the standard, YMMV. You might be able to get the 50Mbit speeds you're looking for though, even if you do end up with a high error rate from all the crosstalk. If you're mostly only needing 1-5 mbit/s, it you could just do 10Base-T for almost everyone and only make the crazy p2p folks buy the expensive hardware required for the higher speeds / deal with 100Base-TX. You could also make those people pay for the cost of upgrading their lines to Cat5, thus slowly upgrading your infrastructure, without taxing the (vast majority of) people who will never use the added speed, although depending on the physical location, this might not be a viable option.

Out of curiosity, what is your uplink, that you anticipate being able to have multiple people using so much bandwidth?
 

Galantti

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A couple ideas: You could try the almost-never-used 100BASE-T4, if you can find the hardware. It allows for 100Mbit transfers over Cat3 cable.

Well that is nice tech, but i have 2 issues with it.
1. only 1 pair is per "flat" that is then divided to 2 places (so i could use the phone, without dialing anywhere, to talk if i don't like to shout).
2. the place that has all the wires close is unauthorized plaze for us, as it is isp's own place next to out electricity "room".

With the 1 pair i could have gone with the 100BASE-T2, but those devices could have been very expensive.

You could also try your luck at just doing 100Base-TX over Cat-3, it appears some people have had some luck, at least for short cable runs, although since it is in flagrant violation of the standard, YMMV. You might be able to get the 50Mbit speeds you're looking for though, even if you do end up with a high error rate from all the crosstalk. If you're mostly only needing 1-5 mbit/s, it you could just do 10Base-T for almost everyone and only make the crazy p2p folks buy the expensive hardware required for the higher speeds / deal with 100Base-TX.

Again thanks for these new ideas, but since the phone lines are connected briefly next to our house and then it has 3 km to the isp central place.
That's why i was looking into this cable-lan thinggy, as it was inside our electricity room.

You could also make those people pay for the cost of upgrading their lines to Cat5, thus slowly upgrading your infrastructure, without taxing the (vast majority of) people who will never use the added speed, although depending on the physical location, this might not be a viable option.

Well that is in our mind, but there is more places for that money (like new roofs, wooden outside framework, asfalt to some places etc...), but it is likely going to be done when the pluming is renovated (in the mid 2020's to late 2030's).

Out of curiosity, what is your uplink, that you anticipate being able to have multiple people using so much bandwidth?

Well i was thinking about symmetrical lines, that would have been (at max) 500/500Mbit (yes the isp's own lines are 1Gbps/1Gbps, but they are as fast with these lines at 24/1[or 2 or 3] per flat).


But thans for your answer, i think i'm going to be using my 8/1 (4/1 for now, i dunno why thought) for a very long time.
I'll +rep you.
 

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Have you seriously considered just recabling the complex with two Cat5 cables to each former single Cat3 installation? Your plain old voice telephony quality has to be starting to degrade with those old phone lines, and I've found that it's usually fairly inexpensive to do so. It may pay to just run the numbers on that.
 
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Galantti

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Have you seriously considered just recabling the complex with two Cat5 cables to each former single Cat3 installation? Your plain old voice telephony quality has to be starting to degrade with those old phone lines, and I've found that it's usually fairly inexpensive to do so. It may pay to just run the numbers on that.

yeah i have considered that, but like i sayd a new roof is more important, than recabling 5 row's of flats (30 flats) that are 50m apart from other row's.

And the place where all the phone lines meet (but don't connect to bigger/more capasity one) from the row's is in a locked isp's closet that no one has key (besides the isp).
The lines are like in a star configuration, as every has own wire to 3km away.

so no cat-5 for a very long time, as this isn't 1 building with 30 flats.
Thanks anyway for the thought.

ps. i really don't know the terms about housing :p
 

PacketCollision

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The more I hear about your current cabling setup, the more it sounds like you really need to start form scratch. Wire each building with two (at a bare minimum) cat-5 drops to each flat, and have them connect up in a closet/wiring box in each building, then you can use a single uplink line from each building (1000-TX would work fine, or you could use fiber if you want to sound impressive) to connect them all to a central router. Cut the old cat3 cables where they enter the buildings and route them into the wiring closets too- right next to your shiny new cat5. That way you can use some punchdowns and some patch panels to organize and route calls/data however you want. If your POTS provider (telephone company, not necesarily related to ISP) doesn't want to give anyone access to the far end of those old cat3 lines, it doesn't matter, because they are now simply generic extensions into your buildings from which you can route anywhere. If you haven't priced it, you should see what the actual cost of cat-5 installation would be, before you discount it as a possibility. You're looking at several thousands of dollars of infrastructure if you go the DSL/cable route, plus you'd be running a seriously esoteric config that will be much harder to manage than bog-standard Ethernet.

If you do have to go the DSL/cable route, look into buying the equipment on Ebay or some local equivelent. I researched starting a DSL co-op several years ago, and I found the head-end DSL equipment I needed on ebay for several thousands less than elsewhere (it wasn't exactly free even then, but it wasn't tens of thousands either). This was in probably 2002 though, so prices are almost certainly wildly different now.
 
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