Germany: Nuclear power plants to close by 2022

A gust of wind also contains infra sound. We have lots of wind here at the coast, that's why we have lots of wind mills. When you live here, then you know that the whole house starts to swing at low frequencies you cannot hear, when the wind blows.

I wonder why nobody complains about wind :rolleyes:
 
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Infrasound is not EM radiation... BTW humans absolutely can feel EM waves, some we detect with our eyes and call it visible light, some we detect with our skin and call it heat. Additionally inability to feel something does not make one immune from it, if it were the case we could work in the middle of nuclear reactors with no protection.

True dat. I should have beem more precisely calling us immune regarding the GHz-band of the spectrum.
 
Regarding infrasound, I would argue that the distances we're discussing here (as already mentioned, the generators are quite far from where anyone actually lives) make the actual volume of the infrasound so little that it will not cause any effects. of course if you actively start running around underneath them for extended periods of time, that might be a whole different story (and it's not like there's anything keeping you from doing that).

That's a fair point.

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A gust of wind also contains infra sound. We have lots of wind here at the coast, that's why we have lots of wind mills. When you live here, then you know that the whole house starts to swing at low frequencies you cannot hear, when the wind blows.

I wonder why nobody complains about wind :rolleyes:
Cosmic background radiation bombards our planet all the time, since we are constantly exposed to CBR we should be totally fine with nuclear reactors all over the place too. After all no one complains about CBR.

Maybe before rolling your eyes you should learn the difference between pressure and frequency when it comes to sound and read the article that I linked that shows how indescribably wrong you are.

Also my wife and toddler fucking hate wind but that's another topic.

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True dat. I should have beem more precisely calling us immune regarding the GHz-band of the spectrum.

It's all in the power levels really GHz is still microwave, at high power it will cook your food at low power it will bring you internet.
 
Welp... never someone to not admit they were wrong: It all depends on the power output. Luckily there are around three orders of magnitude between wifi and a microwave, and I think the human body can dissipate the small amount of heat from picking up on your wifi just fine. Also it's not ionizing radiation, which means it can't mutate your cells (which is something that you truly cannot feel until it's too late, like 10 years down the line when you get full blown cancer). So if your wifi makes you hot (and I don't mean by the means of it allowing you to look at naked pictures on the internet), better get a new router.
 
Welp... never someone to not admit they were wrong: It all depends on the power output. Luckily there are around three orders of magnitude between wifi and a microwave, and I think the human body can dissipate the small amount of heat from picking up on your wifi just fine. Also it's not ionizing radiation, which means it can't mutate your cells (which is something that you truly cannot feel until it's too late, like 10 years down the line when you get full blown cancer). So if your wifi makes you hot (and I don't mean by the means of it allowing you to look at naked pictures on the internet), better get a new router.

Yep, I'm not worried about wi-fi or cell phones both been around long enough to have long term effects quite well known.

I also don't think that windmills built off shore or generally far enough from humans would be much of an issue.
 
Yeah you know that whole "infra" part of the word? It generally means it's below hearing threshold (fun fact it's the opposite of ultra)

It's probably worth mentioning that your link only dealt with infrasound *above* the hearing threshold, as well as in the range of 100+ dB. I don't think there is 100+ dB of infrasound within whatever minimum distance you need to build wind turbines away from homes.
 
Windmills became only an issue when they started getting into people's view. Personally I like looking at windmills. I consider them an addition to the landscape. More than high houses or smoking chimneys.

There are many things that can make people sick, if they believe in it strongly enough but that doesn't mean the technological progress has to stop. We all don't notice the amount of noise anymore that we are exposed to every day of our lives, especially in tightly populated regions like Germany.

However, on some islands off the coast here cars are forbidden. When you go through the village there at this time of the year, with almost no tourists present, you have the soundscape of a 19th century village. The lack of any background hum or modern day noises is almost deafening, if you know what I mean. You expect it to be that quiet in a desert or in the mountains, far from any infrastructure or settlement but actually experiencing it in a village these days, is a very unique sensation.

I can understand why people get sick with too much noise, I only don't understand why they solely blame power windmills for that. Besides, if the windmills really made us physically ill, then it would also effect animals, as it is proven that animals react to infra sound, for instance when a volcano is about to erupt. But surely though, there have been no reports ever about animals behaving strangely or getting sick in the vicinity of windmills...

serveimage
 
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It's probably worth mentioning that your link only dealt with infrasound *above* the hearing threshold, as well as in the range of 100+ dB. I don't think there is 100+ dB of infrasound within whatever minimum distance you need to build wind turbines away from homes.

Probably not, point is that infrasound does have the ability to affect humans (and other animals)
 
Windmills became only an issue when they started getting into people's view. Personally I like looking at windmills. I consider them an addition to the landscape. More than high houses or smoking chimneys.

There are many things that can make people sick, if they believe in it strongly enough but that doesn't mean the technological progress has to stop. We all don't notice the amount of noise anymore that we are exposed to every day of our lives, especially in tightly populated regions like Germany.

However, on some islands off the coast here cars are forbidden. When you go through the village there at this time of the year, with almost no tourists present, you have the soundscape of a 19th century village. The lack of any background hum or modern day noises is almost deafening, if you know what I mean. You expect it to be that quiet in a desert or in the mountains, far from any infrastructure or settlement but actually experiencing it in a village these days, is a very unique sensation.

I can understand why people get sick with too much noise, I only don't understand why they solely blame power windmills for that. Besides, if the windmills really made us physically ill, then it would also effect animals, as it is proven that animals react to infra sound, for instance when a volcano is about to erupt. But surely though, there have been no reports ever about animals behaving strangely or getting sick in the vicinity of windmills...

serveimage

I can't seem to find any reputable source at the moment, will post if I do
 
Wind power is good. We get it. Nuclear waste disposal can be figured out - as a species, we figured out way harder things. The stuff came from the ground, and to the ground it can return.

What's the amount of land area needed by wind turbines to cover the production of a single reactor?
Is it plausible to cover all fields in windmills?
 
Apparently squirrels don't much like them windmills
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006320706000784
. Animals at the Turbine site exhibited elevated levels of vigilance and showed increased caution demonstrated in part, by returning to the area near their burrows during alarm calling. We conclude that this site difference is probably caused by the disparity in turbine noise, since predator abundance, group size, and vegetation type and density were similar for the two sites.
 
...yes, those shining beacons of democracy...

...and what does democracy have to do with being a leader in reducing greenhouse gas emissions? I think China will have the last laugh in this debate come 2050.
 
...and what does democracy have to do with being a leader in reducing greenhouse gas emissions? I think China will have the last laugh in this debate come 2050.

You mentioned voters' bias, and quote voter-free nations as a better example.
 
You mentioned voters' bias, and quote voter-free nations as a better example.

In the case of science and technology, it is often necessary to brush aside the opinions and illegitimate concerns that have no connection to reality e.g. climate-change deniers, anti-vaxxers, evolution deniers, and etc. Those people are free to speak their minds but until they formulate a concrete argument with scientific support, they should not have the opportunity to weigh in on the technological and scientific policies of a nation.
 
On the other hand, a lot of hatred is being directed towards politicians and experts they make decisions for the greater good (or their own interests) behind closed doors without anybody having any say in it or even being informed at all.

That's part of the recent rise in popularity for certain types of politicians like Le Pen in France and Petry in Germany. Not to mention Trump. They have one thing in common: they blame the current political system, which is exactly what the people that feel "left behind" want to hear. That politicians only have their own interest in mind and/or don't trust their voters in any way, but instead the voters need to be guided and can't make any informed decisions at all. And this just sucks for the voters. I believe the times are over where it was enough to go to an election twice a decade and for the rest of the time you just trust the politicians to get things right.

Nowadays the people should at least have the opportunity to become more involved and play a more active role in politics. Part of that means properly educating people so that they can judge the pros and cons of a certain decision and how it might affect the whole country.
 
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California ground squirrels? Seriously? We talk about wind power in Germany and you bring California ground squirrels?

For your information: Squirrles here live in trees.

Trees are nowhere near wind turbines here because they reduce the effectiveness.

Nice try :p
No we are not, you were talking about infra sound not affecting humans or animals at all, guess what it does, you were proven wrong accept it and move on.
 
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