Germany: Nuclear power plants to close by 2022

Cellos88GT

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While I am not sure that Germany's exit from nuclear energy was the right tradeoff between long-term waste problem and cost on the one hand and having short-term zero emission energy to combat climate change on the other hand, your view of nuclear is not realistic as well I believe.

The reason we are not "transitioning to breeder reactors" is that these make a technology that is already prohibitively expensive even more expensive, so even with government subsidies it's not viable.

While nuclear may be a short-term solution to climate change, it is by no means a free or even cheap source of energy and anyone who thinks so obviously has no grasp of economics.

It's expensive now but will it always be expensive in the future? Russia is already operating two fast breeder reactors and China is right behind them. I'm going to guess western technology for breeder reactors is more expensive due to overregulation rather than due to a lack of technical knowledge and expertise.

Nuclear is not the end-all-be-all solution but it should be part of the landscape combined with renewables. A 100% renewable grid is not consistent when it comes to pricing and their inherently low-inertia nature does not offer any kind of robustness.

Finally, Nord Stream 2 is starting to look awfully sketch in light of recent Russian movements against Ukraine.
 

narf

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Meanwhile, in the first half of 2022 49% of Germany's electricity consumption has been covered by renewables, and we're still exporting loads of power to France because they can't keep their nukes up.

 

calvinhobbes

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49% of Germany's electricity consumption has been covered by renewables

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But what about when the wind doesn’t shine? But base load! But, but, but… WE NEED NUKES!!!

Sorry about the trolling, I read the teaser for another one of those “The war in Ukraine means we have to go back to nuclear power!” PR pieces earlier today and am still banging my head against the wall.
 

Cellos88GT

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Easy to say such bullshit when half of the NPPs in France are undergoing pandemic-deferred maintenance.

Nevermind the fact that Germans are paying more for energy than most of the EU. Weird given that renewables should have the opposite effect. I guess their inability to provide a reliable and predictable base load precludes it from being a serious market player.

The maintenance issues of France’s NPPs will pass especially as new plants come online. The prospects of France’s energy getting cheaper, greener, and reliable look much better than Germany’s.
 
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Cellos88GT

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calvinhobbes

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French Nuclear Power Crisis Frustrates Europe’s Push to Quit Russian Energy

France typically exports electricity, but now it risks blackouts and a need for imported power because of problems at the state nuclear operator.
(...)
EDF’s recent troubles began mounting just before Russia invaded Ukraine. The company warned last winter that it could no longer produce a steady nuclear power supply, as it struggled to catch up with a two-year backlog in required maintenance for dozens of aging reactors that was put off during coronavirus lockdowns.

Inspections unearthed alarming safety issues — especially corrosion and faulty welding seals on crucial systems used to cool a reactor’s radioactive core. That was the situation at the Chinon atomic plant, one of France’s oldest, which produces 6 percent of EDF’s nuclear power.

EDF is now scouring all its nuclear facilities for such problems. A dozen reactors will stay disconnected for corrosion inspections or repairs that could take months or years. Another 16 remain offline for reviews and upgrades.

Others are having to cut power production because of climate change concerns: Rivers in the south of France, including the Rhône and the Gironde, are warming earlier each year, often reaching temperatures in the spring and summer too warm to cool reactors.
 

Cellos88GT

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That’s what happens when Green-party assholes get in the way of development and maintenance.

Now we have to rely on unreliable renewable energy on the interm that was promised to be cheaper but has been anything but.
 

Cellos88GT

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The French Green Party is nowhere near successful enough to have an influence on national policy.

And how and why exactly would they get in the way of maintenance anyway?

Yeah, they only just managed to shut down a successful Fast Breeder Reactor and thwart the research and development of any future reactors with more modern technologies and systems.
 

calvinhobbes

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Yeah, they only just managed to shut down a successful Fast Breeder Reactor and thwart the research and development of any future reactors with more modern technologies and systems.

I wasn’t arguing about their opposition to the development of new (types of) nuclear power stations. But now that you’ve mentioned it, what reactor was that?

I was asking how and why they would get in the way of maintenance. Read and understand the question before you reply.
 

Cellos88GT

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I wasn’t arguing about their opposition to the development of new (types of) nuclear power stations. But now that you’ve mentioned it, what reactor was that?

I was asking how and why they would get in the way of maintenance. Read and understand the question before you reply.

Superphenix

The Greens putting stipulations on the closure of plants and whether they can be considered “green” but when backed up against the energy dilemmas of today, they want to extend their licensing at the last minute and ease regulatory pressures. This creates uncertainty to scheduling and resource management.
 
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