Germany: Nuclear power plants to close by 2022

Just because we get bogged down by NIMBYS - er the same people who will do for Nuclear by the way - does not make it the wrong thing to do. Also is that the 40% figure or the 100% figure? It would appear La Rance only has 40% usable electricity. Also we have 5 other sites we could use. Of course none of this stuff would help Germany at all, they could buy ours and Frances spare electricity - Euro Grid would be a practical benefit (There have been precious few) of the EEC. (No one asked me to vote for this EU rubbish).
 
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No I am not - sod 'em, do not like it then turn your lights etc. off or perhaps you'd like a Nuclear Power station next door - and pay for it and we will not need the tidal barrier - your choice.

This amuses me.

What's just up the coast from the proposed site of the barrier? Why it's Oldbury Nuclear Power Station. That's right, the 'NIMBYs' have a nuclear power station next door.

and you can put a motorway across the top - how useful.
Not that much use, we already have the M4 and M48 bridges just up stream.
 
My opinion on producing power is that hydroelectric is the optimal solution, if possible. After all, the three biggest power generating stations in the world are hydroelectric. It's also fully renewable, though it comes at the expense of loosing land (when you dam up) and disturbing the environment.

My view point might be influenced by Norway's position, as we are 98% supplied by hydroelectric, using surplus natural gas (from our petroleum industry) to supply when hydropower can't deliver, or import nuclear power from Sweden. The town I come from has 3 large hydropower stations, all of them with an annual production of about 1000 GWh. The problem with hydropower is that you need a reasonably strong river with a stable flow for it to be efficient. Or you'll have to dam up the river to make a reservoir, which is nice if it's already a lake there, if not it will have dramatic effects on the areas around the river upstream from the dam. The other solution is using big mountain lakes, and replace the natural water falls with piping down to a power station by the foot of the mountain. This though, only works if there are sufficient amounts of smaller streams which replenish the water in the lake. This is always a problem, every fall we hear it hasn't rained enough, and the reservoirs are draining rapidly so power is going to be expensive...

If hydropower isn't possible, I think nuclear is the best option. Clean, no CO2, though we should reprocess as much waste as possible, and get Gen IV reactors up and running as soon as possible. There are also other materials than uranium that can be used as fuel, such as thorium. So I applaud Sweden's decision to scrap the moratorium and replace the existing reactors with new ones. I wonder if they will go for EPR like Finland, or ABWR?
 
Let the games begin:

Business Model at Risk

Nuclear Phaseout Could Spell Disaster for German Energy Giants

With the government's decision to phase out nuclear energy, Germany's four biggest utility companies face an uncertain future. Profits could tumble this year by as much as 30 percent and the companies are also becoming increasingly vulnerable to takeovers. Are the days of giant energy companies numbered in Germany?

J?rgen Grossmann loves playing the role of the lone knight. Speaking in D?sseldorf last week, the veritable giant of a man declared that neither the German government nor Chancellor Angela Merkel herself could "divert him from his nuclear plans." As the CEO of RWE, Germany's second-largest electricity producer, Grossmann has an enormous responsibility toward both his company and its 70,000-strong workforce. He says job security is close to his heart, and because of this, he has vowed to fight for his employees.

And fight he must. The Japanese nuclear disaster at Fukushima and the subsequent debate about nuclear safety have plunged Germany's energy industry -- in particular the country's four biggest utilities, RWE, E.on, EnBW and Vattenfall -- into a hitherto unimaginable crisis.

Profits now look set to plummet. According to internal company estimates, after-tax earnings could fall by up to 30 percent this year alone. That's partly because customers are fleeing in droves to the big four's environmentally friendly rivals, such as Lichtblick and Naturstrom, companies that offer electricity free of nuclear or coal sources. The share prices of electricity companies have been on the decline for months. As a result, the stock exchange darlings of yesterday may now be the takeover candidates of tomorrow.

As if to add insult to injury, the German government this week announced it would permanently reverse its plans to extend the lifespans of nuclear power plants in the country. A post-Fukushima "moratorium" had already taken the seven oldest of Germany's 17 nuclear power plants off the grid. They will now stay permanently offline, as will another plant that was already out of operation following an accident in 2009. Under the plan agreed by Merkel's Christian Democrats (CDU) and the business-friendly Free Democrats (FDP) on Sunday, Germany's remaining nuclear plants will also be shut down between 2021 and 2022.

The government has handed a small olive branch to nuclear energy producers by allowing them to transfer their allotted energy production from the plants that are currently offline to newer ones that will continue to operate until 2022. But the utilities had also hoped that the government would scrap the nuclear fuel tax it had introduced as part of an austerity package passed last year. The tax is intended to generate around ?2.3 billion a year through 2016 for the government to help pay off its public debt. With the current closure of the eight plants, that sum is already expected to drop to around ?1.3 billion annually, but it is a sum the Finance Ministry has refused to do without.

Doom for Germany's Big Four Utilities


Berlin's nuclear exit strategy spells doom for the utilities. Atomic energy expert Wolfgang Pfaffenberger from Jacobs University in Bremen estimates that the eight plants that are being shut down this year generate annual profits of over ?1.5 billion and revenues of at least ?3 billion. All of Germany's 17 nuclear plants together generate around ?4 billion in profits and ?7.5 billion in turnover -- all revenues that will disappear by 2022 at the latest.

In addition, nuclear energy produces few carbon emissions. With an increasing reliance on fossil fuel sources until renewable energy sources can be expanded, the number of certificates the companies are required to purchase for the right to emit CO2 could rise dramatically. Today the companies obtain approximately 70 percent of those certificates for free. Energy researcher Uwe Leprich at the University of Applied Sciences in Saarbr?cken, Germany, has calculated that the German coal industry will have to pay around ?4.2 billion a year starting in 2013 for emissions certificates. A large part of that will be borne by the four main energy companies.

The uncertainty over the future of nuclear power in Germany has depressed these companies' share prices in recent months. Shares in E.on and RWE have lost 20 percent of their value since mid-March, with the downward trend continuing. And analysts at state bank LBBW estimate that the two companies' shares will lose an additional 6 to 11 percent of their value by 2012, making them even easier takeover candidates.

In stark contrast to past decisions on energy policy, the bosses of the big four producers were not given a seat at the negotiating table this time around. Nor did they have the ability to broker the type of backroom deals allegedly made last summer as the government considered extending plant lifespans. "This is a genuinely political decision," Environment Minister Norbert R?ttgen emphasized last week.

A Business Model in Decline

As the uncertainty over their future persists, RWE and E.on are becoming increasingly nervous. After all, much more is at stake than possibly losing billions in revenues from nuclear power. Their main worry is whether their very business model, which is based on generating electricity centrally at huge power plants, is viable in the long term -- or if it will ultimately lead to their demise.

Pushed into a corner, they are taking action against the government, too. On Tuesday, the board of E.on announced it would sue Berlin over the government's decision to keep the nuclear fuel tax. "Adhering to the tax while at the same time significantly shortening the operating lives of nuclear power stations raises additional legal issues," the company said in a statement. E.on said it "expects to receive due compensation for the financial damages associated with these decisions, which is expected to amount to billions of euros."

E.on CEO Johannes Teyssen said he expected "damages in the double-digit billions" as a result of the shortened lifespans of nuclear power plants and their shutdown. The company is arguing that the tax violates constitutional and European law because it is only applied to nuclear power and thus puts it at a disadvantage over other energy forms.

Officials at RWE, which is already suing the government for damages over Merkel's three-month moratorium, said the company is also considering a lawsuit over the phaseout.

Vulnerable to Takeover

Meanwhile, rating agencies have already threatened to downgrade the German utilities further, increasing fears about possible takeovers. Potential buyers include formerly state-owned French utility GDF Suez and even Russian giants such as Gazprom.

Germany's biggest utility, E.on, is especially vulnerable. About 40 percent of E.on's electricity is nuclear in origin, making it the country's biggest producer of atomic energy. The company is at least part owner of a total of 11 nuclear power plants, including six which it operates alone.

Germany's nuclear power plants include problem-plagued ones like the Kr?mmel plant near Hamburg, which has been offline since 2009, as well as several old plants such as Unterweser in Lower Saxony, which came online in 1978 and was due to be taken off the grid next year.

Because E.on's second economic pillar -- gas imports from Russia -- is generating millions in losses, CEO Teyssen is desperately negotiating with the government to try to save whatever he can.

Teyssen needs, for example, support for another major but precarious project: the coal-burning Datteln 4 power plant in North Rhine-Westphalia, which cost more than ?1 billion to build. Work on the nearly completed plant was halted over a year ago by a court injunction because of planning errors by E.on.

Teyssen knows full well that unless he gets significant political backing, this ultramodern coal-fired plant could become one of Germany's most expensive white elephants. And that would cut even bigger holes in his balance sheet because E.on would have to pay for both the demolition of the plant and waste disposal.

While Teyssen continues to lobby in public but says internally that he could easily go down a very different path, RWE boss J?rgen Grossmann has thrown all caution to the wind. At a meeting of a group of executives aligned with Merkel's party, the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU), last week, Grossmann flatly stated that the government's energy policies were wrong. He said Germany now faced an "environmental dictatorship."

Reducing Reliance on the German Market

Grossmann hasn't merely complained about Merkel's new energy policies. For months now, he's been trying to reduce his company's reliance on the German market and politicians. Ideally he'd like to move parts of the company abroad -- or even merge with an international partner.

That would make RWE less dependent on its German operations and could pave the way for importing electricity from power plants near the German border. Grossmann has therefore been pulling out all the remaining stops, sounding out companies from Russia and the Czech Republic to France.

He seemed to have found a partner almost two weeks ago when he bought a 30-percent stake in the Borssele nuclear power plant in the Netherlands. The Dutch government is considering constructing a new nuclear power plant right next to the existing one, which was built back in 1973. RWE could also become involved in the project, but it would probably be only the opening move in a far greater gambit. Grossmann showed what he's capable of in talks with Spanish electricity utility Iberdrola three months ago.

The RWE CEO spent weeks seriously negotiating a merger with Iberdrola, which specializes in supplying renewable energy. As part of this deal, the German was prepared to demote his firm to the role of a junior partner in the resulting company and even suggested moving its corporate headquarters abroad. The plans were ultimately scuppered because of Spanish concerns that unions might have too great a say in the company's decision-making.

Just like his E.on rival Teyssen, Grossmann also plans to divest parts of his business. According to RWE, this could net the company about ?8 billion.

The Rise of Municipal Utilities

This selloff has been triggered because Germany's abandonment of nuclear power and the expansion of the use of renewable energy sources affects more than simply the way the utilities generate part of the electricity they sell. Up to now, the big four's massive coal-fired and nuclear power plants have enabled them to undercut smaller municipal utility companies and then use the profits to entrench their position at the top of the pecking order.

In contrast to the municipal utilities, the energy giants have invested very little in renewable energies and forward-looking technologies, at least in Germany. They've even failed to keep their own, self-imposed pledges to build sufficient numbers of wind farms off Germany's coasts. And why should they? Coal-fired and nuclear power plants have been earning them billions in profits.

All that will change now that nuclear power is being phased out in Germany. The government wants the energy of the future to come from a few reserve power plants and many small, decentralized and intelligently interconnected units harvesting wind, solar, hydroelectric and biomass power. That's an area the electricity utilities know very little about. Worse still, as Environment Minister R?ttgen told the RWE CEO 18 months ago, it is one where the giant companies will no longer even be needed.

More and more local authorities are trying to set up community wind farms as a way to develop their own mini-grid. The approximately 900 municipal works in Germany, who serve as the energy giants' biggest customers, are already jumping ship. Only a few months ago, a consortium of seven municipal works secured itself a majority shareholding in power plant operator Steag for ?651 million. The aim: greater independence from RWE and the other leading utilities.

The city of M?nster's municipal works are trying to dump supply contracts with RWE so that they can offer their customers nuclear-free power. In Hamburg, residents are trying to buy back the electricity network of operator Vattenfall, a Swedish company with mass operations in Germany. And even Germany's largest municipal power provider, Munich-based Stadtwerke M?nchen (SWM), plans to switch its production to renewable energies by 2025.

In an attempt to meet this ambitious target, SWM has been investing across Europe. CEO Kurt M?hlh?user says, "We couldn't meet our targets solely in our own region." Even so, M?hlh?user is also active in Bavaria.

Less and Less Room

It remains to be seen whether projects such as these will be able to hold their own and indeed supply an industrial economy like Germany with sufficient electricity.

It is certain, however, that there will be less and less room for the energy giants. Even top managers in Germany are now convinced the big four will be unlikely to escape a further downturn in fortunes unless they reinvent themselves and are prepared to make big sacrifices, including in the boardroom.

That could come quicker than expected at RWE. The company's supervisory board has called a surprise special meeting in early August with only one item on the agenda: Germany's energy revolution and Grossmann's related strategy.

Boy, do I feel sorry for them. I mean, it's not like they have cut the German market into pieces, so they don't have to compete with each other, and exploiting us for decades... nah...

:rolleyes:

Seriously, though, there have been discussions for years and years about cutting the power those energy giants have. But until now, their lobby work was excellent. Well, the rules of the games changed now.

I hope that once they stopped moaning and complaining, those power companies set their minds to dealing with the facts and put their energy into finding solutions for the new prevailing circumstances.

That's what I mean, when I'm talking about putting pressure on or giving the necessary kick in the butt.

And as you can see, the decentralizing of power production is already on its way. Those who mock Germany's decision to abandon nuclear power now, might become very quiet in a few years from now.
 
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time to start buying shares in French and Czech nuclear energy companies i think.
 
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MacGuffin, you think you've been exploited in the past. Reading that article suggest to me that in the short to medium term the energy companies will be bending you over and taking your trousers down with alarming frequency as their own costs look set to skyrocket and it's always the consumer who suffers in the end.

Don't worry, it's bound to happen to us as well sooner or later. :(
 
MacGuffin, you think you've been exploited in the past. Reading that article suggest to me that in the short to medium term the energy companies will be bending you over and taking your trousers down with alarming frequency as their own costs look set to skyrocket and it's always the consumer who suffers in the end.

Don't worry, it's bound to happen to us as well sooner or later. :(

Well, if that should happen (which I doubt), it won't be my trousers, because in my region the power production has already been regionalized. I get heating and electricity from a company called GEW, which the town of Wilhelmshaven is holding 51 % of. It's like the article above mentioned with other examples.

And, as you can tell from the car videos I make, the region here is already getting a lot of its electricity from wind energy. Actually we are already ahead of the development and the process of transition to renewable energy is on its way. But I admit, that my region has certain advantages over other regions in Germany (such as steady wind and tides) and it isn't really industrialized.

For the time of transition, though, a new, ultra-modern coal power plant is currently being built here (by GDF Suez, after e.on backed out) with a thermal efficiency of 43 %(*) and strongly reduced CO2 emissions. Yeah, I know, what you wanna say: The CO2 footprint. And I agree, that on the long run that cannot be the final solution. But we're in the transition phase already now. We know where we need to go.

The "problem zones" are the regions in western and southern Germany, which are heavily industrialized, with a much higher power need and less possibilities to generate it with renewable energies.

(*) For comparison: The new EPR reactors have a thermal efficiency of 37 %
 
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Thanks for clarifying. Fits with what we both agreed earlier that the solution needs to be suited to the prevailing conditions and has to be addressed on a regional level. Guess Porsches and BMWs are only going to get more expensive eh?

You also mentioned innovative thinking earlier and I just stumbled across this on the Telegraph website. Thought you might be interested.

solar-bikini_1910966i.jpg


A model shows off a solar-powered bikini capable of charging your iPod or camera. The crazy concept is the brainchild of Brooklyn-based designer Andrew Schneider and is made using photo-voltaic panels sewn together with conductive thread. The bizarre bikinis - which are made to measure - cost more than ?120 each to make and Andrew spends up to 80 hours painstakingly hand-stitching each swimsuit. The 30-year-old is also hoping to create a male version which can cool beer.
 
Well, I didn't have THAT decentralized in mind but... yeah... :D
 
Oh man. Power companies are a regulated monopoly for a reason. Can you imagine having two power companies in an area each with their own set of power cables running around. Be real that wouldn't lower cost that would make them worse. Remember a transmission line is at least $1M a mile.

And before you say the transmission system should be shared and generation privately owned. Too late, that happens.

Also, A microgrid type system needs a transmission/distribution system just like the centralized system right now.
 
Power companies are a regulated monopoly for a reason.

There are many power companies to choose from in any city, I fail to see a monopoly :dunno:

In fact, a quick price comparison site such as http://preis24.de/strom/ yields 98 different companies offering me power. Obviously they don't all have their own cables and some are just brands of a larger company, but that's far from a monopoly.
 
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Oh man. Power companies are a regulated monopoly for a reason. Can you imagine having two power companies in an area each with their own set of power cables running around. Be real that wouldn't lower cost that would make them worse. Remember a transmission line is at least $1M a mile.

And before you say the transmission system should be shared and generation privately owned. Too late, that happens.

Also, A microgrid type system needs a transmission/distribution system just like the centralized system right now.

Maybe there is a misunderstanding here: I'm not a fan of giving the responsibility for the power grid completely into private hands. Privatising the infrastructure is always a bad idea. Without regulation or control it will always lead to a neglect, because companies will start saving money in care and maintenance to maximize heir profits. There has to be a higher-ranking board of control, which ensures, that the companies will not only looking for ways of maximizing their profits but also working in the interest of the public.

Here we have the Federal Network Agency. Among other duties, its task is to ensure the stability of our electrical infrastructure (now and in the future) and to guarantee free access to the market and competition among the power suppliers.
 
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Maybe there is a misunderstanding here: I'm not a fan of giving the responsibility for the power grid completely into private hands. Privatising the infrastructure is always a bad idea. Without regulation or control it will always lead to a neglect, because companies will start saving money in care and maintenance to maximize heir profits. There has to be a higher-ranking board of control, which ensures, that the companies will not only looking for ways of maximizing their profits but also working in the interest of the public.

Here we have the Federal Network Agency. Among other duties, its task is to ensure the stability of our electrical infrastructure (now and in the future) and to guarantee free access to the market and competition among the power suppliers.

I agree with you - we had to take rail track back into public ownership for instance, because the commercial organisation kept pairing down costs and upping profits until people started dying in preventable accidents.

Our Power companies use the infrastructure provided - station/grid/door and buy the power wholesale then the electricity is sold to customers who pay retail. The meter readings are used to send the bills to the customer. So forinstance I am on nPower but my next door neighbour may be on Eon and paying a different rate. They can provide gas too, in the same model.

Dual fuel as it is known has a cheaper price, and even cheaper if paid for by Direct Debit mandate. You are allowed to change to a cheaper provider and the companies have become quite good at doing the changes.
 
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The IAEA has published initial findings on Japan's response to Fukushima

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/2011/japanmission.html
The expert team made several preliminary findings and lessons learned, including:

  • Japan's response to the nuclear accident has been exemplary, particularly illustrated by the dedicated, determined and expert staff working under exceptional circumstances;
  • Japan's long-term response, including the evacuation of the area around stricken reactors, has been impressive and well organized. A suitable and timely follow-up programme on public and worker exposures and health monitoring would be beneficial;
  • The tsunami hazard for several sites was underestimated. Nuclear plant designers and operators should appropriately evaluate and protect against the risks of all natural hazards, and should periodically update those assessments and assessment methodologies;
  • Nuclear regulatory systems should address extreme events adequately, including their periodic review, and should ensure that regulatory independence and clarity of roles are preserved; and
  • The Japanese accident demonstrates the value of hardened on-site Emergency Response Centres with adequate provisions for handling all necessary emergency roles, including communications.

Most interesting part is that the IAEA expect the exclusion zone will decontaminated and declared safe in a comparatively short time period (presumably because the plant is no longer emitting long half life particles?).
 
I would rather suggest that there are no serious long time contamination risks because there hasn't been any serious spreading of nuclear contaminated materials around the plants because the only way spreading could have happened is if the heavy nuclear elements would have been suspended inside the radioactive steam emanating from the spent fuel pools. That's pretty much the only way that contamination of a wider area could happen with a containment system in place and due to the high weight of the elements and the rather inefficient transportation method most of those long-life radionuclides would have fallen down pretty close to the plant limiting the long-term danger to relatively quickly decaying lighter elements in the decay chain.

I mean compared to what Chernobyl caused without the graphite fire and nonexistant containment, fukushima is an absolutely minor short term risk as there was no direct large-scale transport of radionuclide producing material but only a small amount of the radionuclides themselves.
 
Hello? The accident in Fukushima is still in progress. They are months, maybe years away from getting the thing under control. Actually they will never get it "under control", they can only bury it under concrete and hope it stays there. :rolleyes:

Never forget, that the IAEA is not a neutral, independent organization. According to its statute, it "shall seek to accelerate and enlarge the contribution of atomic energy to peace, health and prosperity throughout the world.".

It's great that the IAEA sees no evil, hears no evil but I wouldn't exactly put my trust or belief into an organization, which is a part of the pro nuclear lobby.

Everybody's talking about the dangers of contamination but that's quite a useless discussion, because the only part of radioactivity, that has been researched properly, is high radiation. Everybody knows what happens with high radiation. But there is no hard intelligence so far and very limited knowledge on the long-term effects of low radiation. And we haven't got a lack of research opportunities by now.

Believe it or not but even after Tchernobyl there have been no studies here whatsoever about the after-effects of the fallout in middle Europe and what it meant for example for cancer rate in children. Despite the fact, that there definitely are regions, which were effected more by it than others (Southern Germany vs. Northern Germany for example). The logical thing would be to think that scientists would have a field day to investigate, having been given such a great natural laboratory.

But no. No reliable data and no studies on the subject of the long-term effects of low radiation and contamination of food whatsoever. Scientifically speaking, Tchernobly is a wasted disaster.

I don't know, if such a neglect is deliberately or simply because nobody wanted to dedicate themselves for decades on such a project and I certainly don't want to start any conspiracy theory. But I cannot get rid of the nagging feeling, that it is in the interests of certain advocacy groups to keep the whole thing rather foggy, to better not dig too deep and better not know too much about it. Motto: "Don't ask a question, when you fear the answer".
 
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This amuses me.

What's just up the coast from the proposed site of the barrier? Why it's Oldbury Nuclear Power Station. That's right, the 'NIMBYs' have a nuclear power station next door.


Not that much use, we already have the M4 and M48 bridges just up stream.
Now I thought Oldbury was near Wolverhampton and the barrier was to be near Bristol?
 
I for one, welcome Germany?s move to abandon nuclear energy. The forced move to renewable energy will spark innovative technologies which can later be sold to other nations, strengthening Germany?s already strong industrial positioning in the world.
 
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