Global warming a scam? Hacked Hadley data might suggest so.

stiggles

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If you hear someone say that Greenland or Antarctica will be ice-free within our lifetimes then they are.
Basically the thing with 'climate change' isn't the magnitude of the temperature change itself, as the planet is actually very much cooler at present than through much of the Earth's history. What does get attention is the rate of said change, and evidence so far suggests that human activity has some role in it.
The major problem is that thanks to eco-nutters and their stupid hairshirted attitudes and silly little windmills the far more important (imo) problems of overpopulation, alternative energy sources, resource depletion and the like will never be sorted.
 

BerserkerCatSplat

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So, come with me on a wonderful journey as the CRU team realise that not only have they lost great chunks of data but also that their application suites and algorithms are total crap; join your humble Devil and Asimov as we dive into the HARRY_READ_ME.txt (thanks to The Englishman) file and follow the trials and tribulations of Ian "Harry" Harris as he tries to recreate the published data because he has nothing else to go on!

Thrill as he "glosses over" anomalies; let your heart sing as he gets some results to within 0.5 degrees; rejoice as Harry points out that everything is undocumented and that, generally speaking, he hasn't got the first clue as to what's going on with the data!

Chuckle as one of CRU's own admits that much of the centre's data and applications are undocumented, bug-ridden, riddled with holes, missing, uncatalogued and, in short, utterly worthless.

And wonder as you realise that this was v2.10 and that, after this utter fiasco, CRU used the synthetic data and wonky algorithms to produce v3.0!

You'll laugh! You'll cry! You won't wonder why CRU never wanted to release the data! You will wonder why we are even contemplating restructuring the world economy and wasting trillions of dollars on the say-so of data this bad.


http://www.devilskitchen.me.uk/2009/11/data-horribilis-harryreadmetxt-file.html
 

Spectre

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If you hear someone say that Greenland or Antarctica will be ice-free within our lifetimes then they are.
Basically the thing with 'climate change' isn't the magnitude of the temperature change itself, as the planet is actually very much cooler at present than through much of the Earth's history. What does get attention is the rate of said change, and evidence so far suggests that human activity has some role in it.
The major problem is that thanks to eco-nutters and their stupid hairshirted attitudes and silly little windmills the far more important (imo) problems of overpopulation, alternative energy sources, resource depletion and the like will never be sorted.

The rate of said change looks alarming... until you look at the studies that show that other planets in our solar system, which presumably have no evil SUVs or polluting humans on them are warming or cooling at the same rate as the earth.

Climate change is solar powered. Not human powered.

When you have a belief system that cannot be proved through impartial scientific investigation or worse is contradicted by impartial scientific investigation and observation, guess what? It's a Religion.
 
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DanRoM

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other planets in our solar system, which presumably have no evil SUVs or polluting humans on them are warming or cooling at the same rate at the earth.
Can you provide a source for that? I'd like to use that information in discussions elsewhere.
 

Cobol74

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I'll give you a little Group Think Scenario:

1. We all know the world is flat - Oh no it is not - how many burned before the group think people agreed with the minority
2. The world is infact round - thankyou Christopher Columbus, but the sun and planets goes around it - Oh no they do not thank you Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo et al - how many burned before the group think people agreed with the minority
3. God personally made all the creatures of the heaven and the earth - how many burned before the group think people agreed with the minority, thank you Charles Darwin

So who is to say that what we have is more "Group Think" from those with a vested interest?

Where is the credible data - why is it not in the public domain and why are opponents views not published for scrutiny and discussion, why is there a conspiracy for suppression of opposing views?
 

argatoga

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2. The world is infact round - thankyou Christopher Columbus, but the sun and planets goes around it - Oh no they do not thank you Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo et al - how many burned before the group think people agreed with the minority

Well the ancient Greeks determined that well before Columbus using maths and the like.
 

NecroJoe

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You can SEE that it isn't flat...go to a ocean beach, or at least a lake big enough you can't see the other side, and you can see the curvature of the earth. You see the tops of incoming shops as they come towards you before you see the bottoms...

Besides...COlumbus knew it was round. He was trying to find the route to India. Instead of heading east over land he was going the opposite way trying to circle around...he just had no idea there was another land mass between europe and asia. I'm sure it's taught differently now. I couldn't imagine that kids are still taught that Columbus was trying to prove the earth was round...
 
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spicysaurus

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argatoga

Yes, in theory - but he proved it - every one thought that he'd fall off the edge.

It's a widely held misconception that people used to think the world was flat. Never in history has that been the majority belief. In ancient Egypt, Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth based on the differences between shadows cast at at two different places. People have known the world was round since prehistoric times.
 

geeman

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Well the ancient Greeks determined that well before Columbus using maths and the like.
Yeah. Ancient Greeks knew a lot about how planets work and that earth revolves around the Sun and stuff like that. There was just a big christian fuck up in the middle ages and everybody forgot about all this.
 

spicysaurus

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Yeah. Ancient Greeks knew a lot about how planets work and that earth revolves around the Sun and stuff like that. There was just a big christian fuck up in the middle ages and everybody forgot about all this.

Exactly. Everybody should read Sagan's Cosmos. In fact, that should be required reading for all schoolchildren. He goes into quite a bit of speculation about where we'd be now if we hadn't lost a millennium to the Christian dark ages.
 

BerserkerCatSplat

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Exactly. Everybody should read Sagan's Cosmos. In fact, that should be required reading for all schoolchildren. He goes into quite a bit of speculation about where we'd be now if we hadn't lost a millennium to the Christian dark ages.

We'd have probably colonized the goddamn Moon by now if it weren't for people and their imaginary sky pixies.
 

argatoga

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Exactly. Everybody should read Sagan's Cosmos. In fact, that should be required reading for all schoolchildren. He goes into quite a bit of speculation about where we'd be now if we hadn't lost a millennium to the Christian dark ages.

This post sponsored by Carl Sagan.

I've already posted this before elsewhere, but let me say it again. The Middle Ages were not world wide. The Chinese and Islamic world developed quite a bit of kit during that time.

The Romans/Greeks also were not developing technology as quickly as people think there were. Nor did they care too much about improving through tech (see how the steam engine was only used as a toy and never developed upon).

Oh and by the way, the most advanced ships in the world during the Middle Ages came from Venice.
 
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spicysaurus

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This post sponsored by Carl Sagan.

I've already posted this before elsewhere, but let me say it again. The Middle Ages were not world wide. The Chinese and Islamic world developed quite a bit of kit during that time.

The Romans/Greeks also were not developing technology as quickly as people think there were. Nor did they care too much about improving through tech (see how the steam engine was only used as a toy and never developed upon).

Oh and by the way, the most advanced ships in the world during the Middle Ages came from Venice.

No, I never claimed the Christian dark ages were global. But don't get all rosey-eyed about the Chinese, either. They've had their fair share of religious subjugation of science.

The main problem with the Greeks and Romans was their acceptance of slavery. They did give us quite a bit of advancement, but that inevitably would have been stifled by the aristocracy's desire to keep the poor subservient.

However, were it not for the thousand years of power for the Christian Church, some society somewhere would likely have made huge leaps in our understanding of the universe. After all, as soon as the power of the Church began to recede following the Inquisition and the pathetic outcome of the Crusades, we suddenly got such famous geniuses as Da Vinci, Decartes, and Columbus.

At least we're back on track now.
 

argatoga

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No, I never claimed the Christian dark ages were global. But don't get all rosey-eyed about the Chinese, either. They've had their fair share of religious subjugation of science.

The main problem with the Greeks and Romans was their acceptance of slavery. They did give us quite a bit of advancement, but that inevitably would have been stifled by the aristocracy's desire to keep the poor subservient.

However, were it not for the thousand years of power for the Christian Church, some society somewhere would likely have made huge leaps in our understanding of the universe. After all, as soon as the power of the Church began to recede following the Inquisition and the pathetic outcome of the Crusades, we suddenly got such famous geniuses as Da Vinci, Decartes, and Columbus.

At least we're back on track now.

No the Chinese were not perfect, no one is.

The idea that the Middle Ages set us back significantly is idiotic. The inquisition wasn't a huge blow to science. It was aimed at Cathars and others who were even more fanatical than the Church was. Yes Galileo was sentenced to house arrest, but that was mostly because he didn't brown nose the clergy.

Also the Church's power was not nearly has vast as it is made out to be. The Catholic Church didn't separate from the Imperial(Greek) Church until around 900-1000 A.D. And it's edicts were ignored frequently by governments. The ban on crossbows for instance was ignored. Hell Fredrick II spent most of his reign excommunicated.

Technology is only useful when it is desired. The Greeks didn't care about steam power, so nothing happened with it. Cannon technology was highly desired by those in the Middle Ages so it rapidly advanced to the point that castles were rendered useless at the end of the Hundred Years War.
 

Cobol74

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Was not Constantinople taken using a big cannon by the Muslims of the Ottoman empire? I think that the bloke who came up with the cannon offered it to the King (or what ever) of Constantinople first and he could see no use for it.

Interesting illustration of why dictatorships and Monarchy's will never work long term - sooner or later you get an idiot in charge with absolute power. We are fortunate in our democracy to have had an idiot of one sort or another running our country since 1953.
 

MacGuffin

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No, I never claimed the Christian dark ages were global. But don't get all rosey-eyed about the Chinese, either. They've had their fair share of religious subjugation of science.

The main problem with the Greeks and Romans was their acceptance of slavery. They did give us quite a bit of advancement, but that inevitably would have been stifled by the aristocracy's desire to keep the poor subservient.

However, were it not for the thousand years of power for the Christian Church, some society somewhere would likely have made huge leaps in our understanding of the universe. After all, as soon as the power of the Church began to recede following the Inquisition and the pathetic outcome of the Crusades, we suddenly got such famous geniuses as Da Vinci, Decartes, and Columbus.

At least we're back on track now.

They actually made huge leaps. After all, most of our cities blossomed during that time and the whole European continent was reclaimed.

The middle ages weren't as dark as everyone assumes. That's a common misconception, which is rather persistent. For example all our universities were founded during that period and within the educated parts of the population the ancient Greek and Roman culture was very much honored and kept alive.

And let's not forget the Magna Charta Libertatum.

It's true that people thought less about individuality and put the good of the community above their own, but it wasn't until the middle ages were over (they officially lasted from about 500 a.d. till 1500 a.d.), before the Christian religious fanatism went really bad (conquering the "New World", colonialism).

The witch hunts for example happened after the renaissance had started and slavery, which was common with the Greek and the Romans and didn't exist during the middle ages, was introduced again in the so-called more civilized times.

Also when you read a bit about the middle ages, you realize that there was a constant power struggle between the church and the mundane leaders, which the church lost in big parts. Most of the horror stories you know about the middle ages were actually politically motivated, rather than religiously.

And let's not forget that the 20th century was the most inhuman, dark and bloody period in all of human history. How will people in a thousand years think about us who lived during that time of hot and cold wars, with our entire race at the verge of extinction?

I'm sure we will be seen as barbarians.
 
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Spectre

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Can you provide a source for that? I'd like to use that information in discussions elsewhere.

Among others: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece

Mars is being hit by rapid climate change and it is happening so fast that the red planet could lose its southern ice cap, writes Jonathan Leake.

Scientists from Nasa say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5C since the 1970s. This is similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period.

Since there is no known life on Mars it suggests rapid changes in planetary climates could be natural phenomena.

The article goes on to cover the asses of the global-warmists, claiming that the mechanism of warming on Mars is somehow different....

NASA themselves have partially admitted much the same. http://www.dailytech.com/NASA+Study...Responsible+for+Past+Warming/article15310.htm

Now, a new research report from a surprising source may help to lay this skepticism to rest. A study from NASA?s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland looking at climate data over the past century has concluded that solar variation has made a significant impact on the Earth's climate. The report concludes that evidence for climate changes based on solar radiation can be traced back as far as the Industrial Revolution.

Past research has shown that the sun goes through eleven year cycles. At the cycle's peak, solar activity occurring near sunspots is particularly intense, basking the Earth in solar heat. According to Robert Cahalan, a climatologist at the Goddard Space Flight Center, "Right now, we are in between major ice ages, in a period that has been called the Holocene."

Thomas Woods, solar scientist at the University of Colorado in Boulder concludes, "The fluctuations in the solar cycle impacts Earth's global temperature by about 0.1 degree Celsius, slightly hotter during solar maximum and cooler during solar minimum. The sun is currently at its minimum, and the next solar maximum is expected in 2012."

According to the study, during periods of solar quiet, 1,361 watts per square meter of solar energy reaches Earth's outermost atmosphere. Periods of more intense activity brought 1.4 watts per square meter (0.1 percent) more energy.

While the NASA study acknowledged the sun's influence on warming and cooling patterns, it then went badly off the tracks. Ignoring its own evidence, it returned to an argument that man had replaced the sun as the cause current warming patterns. Like many studies, this conclusion was based less on hard data and more on questionable correlations and inaccurate modeling techniques.

There's more out there, too.

I'll give you a little Group Think Scenario:

1. We all know the world is flat - Oh no it is not - how many burned before the group think people agreed with the minority
2. The world is infact round - thankyou Christopher Columbus, but the sun and planets goes around it - Oh no they do not thank you Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo et al - how many burned before the group think people agreed with the minority

The only people that believed that were the Western and Southern Europeans, plus the 'Moors'. Everyone else knew the planet was round - and most groups even knew the radius of the Earth.

Where is the credible data - why is it not in the public domain and why are opponents views not published for scrutiny and discussion, why is there a conspiracy for suppression of opposing views?

It's a religion and a wealth transfer scheme - and it may cause it's own Dark Age for the same reasons. Dissent from the Holy Writ must be suppressed, of course. :rolleyes:

And let's not forget that the 20th century was the most inhuman, dark and bloody period in all of human history. How will people in a thousand years think about us who lived during that time of hot and cold wars, with our entire race at the verge of extinction?

I'm sure we will be seen as barbarians.

Or we might be seen as relatively harmless amateurs compared to the conflicts they have on hand in their era.
 
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wooflepoof

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And let's not forget that the 20th century was the most inhuman, dark and bloody period in all of human history. How will people in a thousand years think about us who lived during that time of hot and cold wars, with our entire race at the verge of extinction?

I'm sure we will be seen as barbarians.

^ well, imagine if Ghenghis Kahn and the Inquisition were equipped with machine guns, tanks, and nukes. The 20th century was the bloodiest[citation needed] because it had developed the technology that allowed one man to kill 100 in a single serving and more efficient means by which to transport that deadly force. The motivations of the dictators or whomever really haven't been any more dark or inhuman than any other period. At worst, people 1000 years from now with put us with every other preceding century in the "thats just the kinda shit they did back then" group with no special distinction other than there were more people to be killed and a better means to go about it....but certainly not any more evil than say, Caligula or Mr. Kahn oor as dark as those in the dark ages.
 
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