"God Bless America"????????

optimusprime

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There are a lot of intelligent people that believe in God.
I am absolutely certain that this is not true. 93% of National Academy of Science members don't. I don't. Both of the Mythbusters don't.

I do indeed struggle to think of 'a lot' of even moderately intelligent theists, let alone eminent thinkers.
 

AiR

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When the president, whoever it is, ends his speech with the god bless line, I always think of Iran for some peculiar reason... I dont recall Clinton saying that god line all the time...?
 

TBoneUs

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Wow a lot of different topics have been brought up here. For the sake of full disclosure, I am a practicing nondenominational Christian.

Ok, as has been covered, politicians saying "God bless America" is not banned, but actually covered under their constitutional rights of both freedom of speech and freedom of religion. It is also really just a way to pander to voters. If they mean it or not is an entirely different matter.

As for the legality of "God Bless America" on money and in the pledge I really don't know. If you care that much, email a constitutional law professor at a major US university.

One thing that bothers me is that some people have taken separation of church and state as meaning that if the state is any way involved, that the church should be completely absent and driven away. To some extent that would seem to say that the state sponsored religion should be an absence of religion. In my opinion, you have to remember that the vast majority of founding fathers were religious men. What they were trying to do was avoid the problems they had had in England with the State/Church of England actively persecuting and putting down other religions/denominations. Their goal was to have an open place where you could practice your beliefs without interference, or worse persecution. Though I do understand that often the practice of ones religion or beliefs conflicts with another persons religion or beliefs. That is what courts are for.

As for the difference between the various Christian denominations, they are there, if often very subtle. Though I do think many of the divisions are pointless and a negative influence on Christianity as a whole. If you want to talk about that send me a PM.

Finally I would have to disagree with the statement that there are not intelligent Christians. Honestly I don't even know if that question merits a response beyond that, so I will leave it there as to not descend into a flame war.
 

bartboy9891

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I am absolutely certain that this is not true. 93% of National Academy of Science members don't. I don't. Both of the Mythbusters don't.

I do indeed struggle to think of 'a lot' of even moderately intelligent theists, let alone eminent thinkers.
Being intelligent doesn't necessarily mean having a scientific background or being a special effect specialist on a TV show. Though generally, scientists tend not to be religious.
 

KaJuN

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This makes me think about the fact that no alcohol can be sold or bought on Sunday in this state. Every time I go to the grocery store on Sunday and I see those tarps lining the shelves with booze I get so fucking aggravated. And no, I don't drink.
That irritates me too. What the hell does a religious worship day have to do with the government saying no alcohol can be sold on that day?
 

Cobol74

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^ Woa - not going to live there then, what a daft idea. That kind of used to be the case in Scotland and parts of Wales but I think that they got over that some time ago and society has not fallen apart - yesh.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What an established church actually is - Englands version:

Known as the Lords Spiritual, they (26 of them - Bishops/Arch Bishops really) sit in the upper chamber of parliament known as the House of Lords:

"The Lords Spiritual normally do not vote on matters of law or State in the House of Lords."

Wow they do have some power then. ... Er not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_Spiritual
 

Firecat

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Personally, I think those that say "God Bless America" have it wrong. If they really cared, they'd say "God Bless the World" or something more encompassing.

Or maybe they think Jesus was American.
 

teeb

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That irritates me too. What the hell does a religious worship day have to do with the government saying no alcohol can be sold on that day?
You should see the Highlands and Islands in Scotland on a Sunday...

Children are not allowed to play in the playgrounds or on the football pitches.

^ Woa - not going to live there then, what a daft idea. That kind of used to be the case in Scotland and parts of Wales but I think that they got over that some time ago and society has not fallen apart - yesh.
Can't buy booze before 12 noon on a Sunday in Scotland, still.

Then again if you need to buy booze at 9am on a Sunday, you've bigger problems than religious interference in government.
 

chaos386

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As for the legality of "God Bless America" on money and in the pledge I really don't know. If you care that much, email a constitutional law professor at a major US university.
The issue of "under God" being in the Pledge of Allegiance actually came up as a discussion topic one day in my US history/government class (I went to a high school in the US), and the consensus was that, even though the original pledge didn't include that line, it's not really worth it to go back and remove it now, especially since it doesn't specify which god and most Americans are monotheists. I've never come across an atheist or polytheist who felt deeply offended by the pledge or the phrase on coins, either.

Add the phrase "There is no god" to the nickel, though, and I bet there'd be hordes of angry people ready to storm the mints. :mrgreen:

Finally I would have to disagree with the statement that there are not intelligent Christians. Honestly I don't even know if that question merits a response beyond that, so I will leave it there as to not descend into a flame war.
I strongly agree with you. I'm of the opinion that religion doesn't cause ignorance, hate, or bigotry, just that it's a popular excuse for people who are already ignorant bigots.
 

watisdis

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Up until your post, the discussion has been pretty benign
He asked, I answered his question.

Um... we are on the internet you know. Also, if you don't want to hear opinions on this topic, stop bitching and stay out of the thread.
Ha! Since we are all on the internet, that means you get to read my comment regardless of wether you like it or not (see what I did there?). And who said I didn't want to "hear" these opinoins anyway? I could give two shits about what you guys think of "God Bless America". I didn't bitch, I just made a comment, but you guys seem to be the ones who got their panties in a twist.
 

Vector

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Personally, I must admit that electing a president that's not pink is a small step, compared to the day when the United States finally elect a president who openly says "I do not believe in God".

That's a day to look forward for.
Why? North America and Britain have always embraced religion or spirituality, it's part of the culture and it's part of who we are. Most of us also possess the ability to not push our beliefs on other people, and to do our jobs objectively regardless. Belief in something greater than yourself is a wonderful thing and it does not share the same stigma over here as it does in Europe, and it never will "God willing". So please, get over it and lighten up on your pretentiousness a bit.
 

Flyingphil

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it's part of the culture and it's part of who we are.

I don't understand how American can have so many people claiming to be Christian when you look at their culture. Eg:

Their high rates of crime conflicting with the bibles 8th commandment "thou shalt not steal" and "thou shalt not kill" commandment.

Ethusiam to seemingly be constantly involved in a war or often starting own war making a mockery of the "Thou shalt not kill" commandment (a commandment which in itself controdicts stories in the bible where 'good' 'character's killed others but never mind).

Very high divorce rates and a culture where having a affair is quite common, contradicts the "Thou shalt not commit adultry' commandment.

The capatilist style politics and culture where being rich is admired and looked up to when the bible clearly states that rich people will not go to heaven. It's in Mathew 19:24 (and a few other sections)- 'And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.'

Some American states allow gay marriage (something I support) which is pretty rare in this world yet the bible clearly says that all gays (or at the very least gay males) should be put to death in Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

More than %10 of the US population lives below the povety line yet despite what the bible says in Deuteronomy 15:7: I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land" . Americans give more to their church (who just spend it most of it on themselves) than they do to the poor who obviously aren't get enough help (or any at all).

Less than half of all Americans attend church every week, some polls showing as little as 25% actually do.
I haven't seen statistics for this but it would appear they're also in violation of the 4th commandment: "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy".



Why? North America and Britain have always embraced religion or spirituality, it's part of the culture and it's part of who we are.
Is this by way of exposing Children too it straight from Birth (by way of baptisims, christenings, circumcisms etc etc)? I don't know about Britain but Australia, as part of the Commonwealth/British empire does not 'embrace' religion and it's not part of who we are and our Prime minister does not constantly tells us to 'pray' or 'bless'. In the past we've even elected Athiest prime ministers (Paul Keating).

Belief in something greater than yourself is a wonderful thing
In what way?

This makes me think about the fact that no alcohol can be sold or bought on Sunday in this state. Every time I go to the grocery store on Sunday and I see those tarps lining the shelves with booze I get so fucking aggravated. And no, I don't drink.
I didn't know that. So much for a free country.

But did they have to create 100 different variations of a single religion?
I assume thats because they keep finding themselves violating their own relgion's rules so they start up a new Christian church with rules adjusted to suit themselves.

Being intelligent doesn't necessarily mean having a scientific background or being a special effect specialist on a TV show. Though generally, scientists tend not to be religious.
Thats true, but being scientific means knowing the facts, being logical, using or discovering evidence and defining unproven work as theorys which are all characteristics of a intelligent person. Christianity on the other hand requires a person to ignore evidence and believe in unproven stories/statistics of which they are not allowed to question or believe otherwise. These are the chracteristics of a narrow minded person who is unable to think for themselves - things that a intelligent person isn't.

Most of us also possess the ability to not push our beliefs on other people
I may be wrong, but doesn't the Mormon Church (and the church of latter day saints or are they the same church) and similar churches come from America? All they seem to do is send people door knocking around the neirbourhoods, armed with a bible to try and convert people. Most of the people we get in Australia doing that, are actually Americans who travelled here specifically just to do that. Why don't they spend their time doing charity work instead?



Anyway, back to the original post, Someone tell me what these statements from the president are needed for and what they're supposed to mean.
Frankly I found it rather scary that the person in charge of the worlds most powerful country believes in a super natural being.
 
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