"God Bless America"????????

jeffy777

Forum Addict
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
6,518
Location
US
Car(s)
'04 Toyota Sienna, crippled people like vans....
Finally I would have to disagree with the statement that there are not intelligent Christians. Honestly I don't even know if that question merits a response beyond that, so I will leave it there as to not descend into a flame war.
I strongly agree with you. I'm of the opinion that religion doesn't cause ignorance, hate, or bigotry, just that it's a popular excuse for people who are already ignorant bigots.
This is very true. I think it's very close minded to assume someone is daft just because they believe in God. Such belief does not automatically mean a person is ignorant. For instance, one research project I saw which was conducted by a "non-believer" showed that about 38% of university scholars he contacted (in various fields including anthropology, evolutionary biology, etc) did indeed believe in God, while about the same amount did not, the rest were not sure. The researcher concluded "that people who do and don?t believe in God come from the broad field of higher education".
 
Last edited:

phuckingduck

is awesome!
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
3,018
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
Car(s)
'03 Volvo S60 AWD
I am absolutely certain that this is not true. 93% of National Academy of Science members don't. I don't. Both of the Mythbusters don't.

I do indeed struggle to think of 'a lot' of even moderately intelligent theists, let alone eminent thinkers.
Yes. The Mythbusters. GREAT example. They really offset religious minds like Plato, Hawkings, Franklin, or Jefferson. May I remind you the majority of the nations forefathers, admittedly a dimwitted bunch, were at the least Deists. And also, more than 90% of Americans identify having a belief in some sort of superior being. I doubt that the remaining 10% also happen to be the only smart ones.

For the record, I am an atheist.

I've never come across an atheist or polytheist who felt deeply offended by the pledge or the phrase on coins, either.
You missed the sh**storm that a NW atheist caused a few years back when he sued on his daughters behalf to have the students of her school stop being forced to say the pledge because saying "Under God" was an infringement on her religious freedom.

The people were free to choose not to sell alcohol on Sunday. If the people want the law changed they can do it.
Thank you jetsetter. I get so tired when people choose these itsy-bitsy issues and and go all hyperbolic on them them and try to twist them into us not having any freedom at all.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
12,912
I am absolutely certain that this is not true. 93% of National Academy of Science members don't. I don't. Both of the Mythbusters don't.

I do indeed struggle to think of 'a lot' of even moderately intelligent theists, let alone eminent thinkers.
I'm not religious but that right there is just plain wrong. You have no idea how many people believe in God. And why do you put yourself on the same level as National Academy of Science members? And Mythbusters? :lol:


He asked, I answered his question.
Ha! Since we are all on the internet, that means you get to read my comment regardless of wether you like it or not (see what I did there?).
Actually its pretty easy not to read your comments. Ah, you gotta love the ignore feature, comes in really handy sometimes.
And I must agree that the discussion has been civilized for the most part. I dont know why you had to come in.


Anyways, regarding the original topic: Christianity is the dominant religion in America and that, combined with freedom of religion, makes it a-okay for politicians to say "God bless you" and such.
 

jeffy777

Forum Addict
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
6,518
Location
US
Car(s)
'04 Toyota Sienna, crippled people like vans....
It's funny that you kind of come across as more closeminded and condescending than many of the religious people I've met.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TC

bartboy9891

I'm not Moe
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
9,123
I strongly agree with you. I'm of the opinion that religion doesn't cause ignorance, hate, or bigotry, just that it's a popular excuse for people who are already ignorant bigots.
I think religion can make people that aren't originally bigots into bigots. Homosexuality for instance may not be much of a cause for concern for someone until they hear their pastor/priest condemn it. And it seems like many of the people who are bigots were raised that way through their religion. Being taught that their god hates homosexuals for their entire life would probably have this effect.
 

jetsetter

Forum Addict
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
7,257
Location
Seren?sima Rep?blica de California
Car(s)
1997 BMW 528i
I think religion can make people that aren't originally bigots into bigots.
You could also say that religion has keep some people from doing bad things. Atheists do not have a clean track record either.

I'm not even religious and I feel I have to defend religion from ignorant comments. As one who has studied history I can say that some of the smartest and greatest people in history have been religious.
 

katwalk

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
10,299
Car(s)
2003 VW Beetle, 2017 Abarth Fiat 500c
I strongly agree with you. I'm of the opinion that religion doesn't cause ignorance, hate, or bigotry, just that it's a popular excuse for people who are already ignorant bigots.
Most people who are religious assholes are hilarious because they obviously read it wrong. Srsly Christians, You think jesus, who was crucified because people would not accept him want them to to do the same to others?
I like to think they are all going to get their asses dumped through the trap good at the gate.
Really though, there are sooo many more things wrong with this country, god on the money and such is just so trivial.
 

bartboy9891

I'm not Moe
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
9,123
You could also say that religion has keep some people from doing bad things. Atheists do not have a clean track record either.

I'm not even religious and I feel I have to defend religion from ignorant comments. As one who has studied history I can say that some of the smartest and greatest people in history have been religious.
I'm not saying all religious people are bigots and all atheists aren't. But it seems like many bigots say their religion is why they believe what they believe about homosexuality, safe sex, people of other religions etc. But there are probably many atheists that are just as bigoted.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
12,912
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o[/YOUTUBE]

/thread



edit: and a quote from this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyWEBbFwU1o&feature=related

When you really think about it, religion has never really had a big problem with murder.
Not really.
More people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason, all you have to do is look at Northern Ireland, The Middle East, Kashmir, The Inquisition, the Crusades and the World Trade Center, too see how seriously the religious folks take Thy shallt not kill.
The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable. It depends on who is doing the killing and who is getting killed.
 
Last edited:

chaos386

.sa = bad driver!
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
7,960
Location
Back in Saudia
Car(s)
SEAT Leon FR
I'm of the opinion that religion doesn't cause ignorance, hate, or bigotry, just that it's a popular excuse for people who are already ignorant bigots.
Aaaand on the flipside, Atheism doesn't seem to impart intelligence, tolerance, or tact, either, as you can tell.
 

tigger

Forum Addict
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
5,737
Car(s)
'88 Vic Wagon, '92 Honda VFR
It's funny that you kind of come across as more closeminded and condescending than many of the religious people I've met.
Hell, I've met pastors who are more open-minded and accepting.

Aaaand on the flipside, Atheism doesn't seem to impart intelligence, tolerance, or tact, either, as you can tell.
This.
 

jetsetter

Forum Addict
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
7,257
Location
Seren?sima Rep?blica de California
Car(s)
1997 BMW 528i
Aaaand on the flipside, Atheism doesn't seem to impart intelligence, tolerance, or tact, either, as you can tell.
Mao, Stalin, etc.

Any before anyone says anything, I know that many have died at that hands of people who were religious. I'm just saying those without religion have blood on their hands.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
12,912
Mao, Stalin, etc.

Any before anyone says anything, I know that many have died at that hands of people who were religious. I'm just saying those without religion have blood on their hands.
So you're saying that religion has nothing to do with the shed of blood? Well yeah...
 

jetsetter

Forum Addict
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
7,257
Location
Seren?sima Rep?blica de California
Car(s)
1997 BMW 528i
So you're saying that religion has nothing to do with the shed of blood? Well yeah...
Where did I say that? All I am saying is that Atheists are not better people because they don't believe in a religion. Some think all of the death out there is caused by some religions nutjobs murdering people. I just pointed out that two of the biggest murderers were Atheist.
 

LeVeL

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
12,912
Where did I say that? All I am saying is that Atheists are not better people because they don't believe in a religion. Some think all of the death out there is caused by some religions nutjobs murdering people. I just pointed out that two of the biggest murderers were Atheist.
What I was implying is that both religios folks and athiests have blood on their hands.
 

jeffy777

Forum Addict
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
6,518
Location
US
Car(s)
'04 Toyota Sienna, crippled people like vans....
Occam's Razor. That is all.
Or not. Ockham himself was a theist. Even a great mind such as Einstein saw the logic in believing in a God of some kind.
 
Last edited:

nomix

True Viking
Joined
May 26, 2005
Messages
7,293
Location
Norway
Car(s)
Tend do walk the 40 meters from my bed to lecture.
Why? North America and Britain have always embraced religion or spirituality, it's part of the culture and it's part of who we are. Most of us also possess the ability to not push our beliefs on other people, and to do our jobs objectively regardless. Belief in something greater than yourself is a wonderful thing and it does not share the same stigma over here as it does in Europe, and it never will "God willing". So please, get over it and lighten up on your pretentiousness a bit.
Please observe that I didn't say anything about a religious president or leader. What I am saying, please listen up now, is that I'm looking forward to the day when we are able to see an American president who is openly agnostic or atheist because that would mean that anyone could become president.

We've just proved that someone not pink can become president, and that's great, but at this point in time, I am quite convinced that there couldn't be an American president who is an outspoken agnostic or atheist.

So to send a question back to you, would you be less likely to vote for a president who didn't believe in God?

I can't say it would influence me much either way, but I'm quite interested in your view.

If the answer is yes; then I'd like to ask, why?
 
Top