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Group B vs. WRC

Thrasher

Thrasher

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May 13, 2005
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Location
Vancouver, Washington
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1976 BMW 2002
After watching a few group B rally vids and seeing how amazingly fast the Audi S1 is, I wondered whether this car or any other Group B car could compete with today's WRC cars? How much faster/slower are they? could you modify them to bring them to today's standards?

In all the videos, The Audi looked faster than everything I see on TV these days. It could be just the way stuff was filmed that it looks faster but I don't know.

What do you guys think?
 
Group B cars were supposedly stupid fast and that's why they got banned. Todays WRC driver wouldn't be able to drive a Group B car at all. You'd have to get a driver from that era to drive a Group B and it would probably spank todays cars ;).
 
According to many rally people, the WRC cars are just on pace, or even faster then the Group B cars in tight and tricky rallys. Its moslty due to the fact that the Group B cars were a lot more difficult to drive then the WRC cars and they dont have the modern braking abilities of the WRC cars today. Plus, today's wrc cars handle extremely well. Group B cars of that era didnt have all these complicated 4wd systems that transfer power to slipping wheels, and all the diffs we have today in WRC. Gorup B cars had more simple systems like the quattro in the Audi S1. Group B cars also had more standard manual racing transmissions. No sequential gearboxes like we have today.
 
The old Group B rally cars will completely blow the modern WRC cars away.
It won't even be a close race. The top group B cars had twice the power as today's weak WRC racers.

Group B did not have too many regulations regarding power output. They just had as much as they can make. Since speeds were so high (Ford RS200 accident), the FIA eliminated group B and imposed power limits.

Rally drivers who made the transition from group B to the current formula have complained of the lack of power. They said it was a night and day difference.
 
Tricky one - I'd guess WRC cars will carry more corner speed than a Group B car, but the Group B car will have something like twice the power (or more). I'd say over a tight twisy stage a WRC car might beat a Group B, on a more flowing stage the Group B would win.
 
Yeah on one of the videos it was Walter Rohl or someone who said the S1 can get up to 200 mph. Iodn't think WRC cars can do that
 
Z Draci said:
The old Group B rally cars will completely blow the modern WRC cars away.
It won't even be a close race. The top group B cars had twice the power as today's weak WRC racers.
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Actually, modern day WRC cars are posting much better times than the group B cars were. The huge leap in technology in suspension, areodynamics, etc. all make for a lot quicker times.

You don't need gobs of power to get through a track fast. ;)
 
Viper007Bond said:
Z Draci said:
The old Group B rally cars will completely blow the modern WRC cars away.
It won't even be a close race. The top group B cars had twice the power as today's weak WRC racers.
Click to expand...
Actually, modern day WRC cars are posting much better times than the group B cars were. The huge leap in technology in suspension, areodynamics, etc. all make for a lot quicker times.

You don't need gobs of power to get through a track fast. ;)
Click to expand...

Good point - too many people get excited and think power is all that matters.
 
It would definitely be an interesting battle if it were to be staged ;)

I think I'll join the "depends on the rally" club, I think... for the average twisty stage I'm sure the WRC cars would beat the B cars, but group B may have the advantage on high speed rallies like Finland...

They say that the 1986 Delta S4 could accelerate 0-100kph in something like 2.5 secs ... on gravel, and you don't need a lot of straight to make that kind of power count... but the new WRC cars can add 600-700nm (450+ ft/lbs) of torque to their superior suspension, aerodynamics, chassis and drivetrains... a lot more than the group B cars had, if I recall correctly.
 
Todays WRC cars are mindblowingly faster then the groupB rally car...
saw som numbers from a stage that was used Now and in the "golden age of rally"
identicak stage.. WRC cars where a minute faster or soemthing.. (hand i think that was in finland.. or sweden...)
 
some rally still have group b cars running in them (metro 6r4) the wrc cars are winning by minutes. the wrc cars can go round corners not like the group b where they just went straight on..
 
^ Is that with a Group B driver? They should bring one from that era via the Time Machine. Then it could be a legitimate comparison. No one these days could drive the Group B cars like the Rally drivers used to.
 
I Too would like to see a race betwen the two

I also agree about the driver issue and the type of rally all have an effect.

I know the WRC cars are more advanced but if the Group B cars did not raelly handle well, how were they able to go so fast?

In my opinion, I think the Group B cars would be faster, although it depends on driver and rally.

The one thing that I think everybody has to agree on is that Group B cars definately
sound way better. The Audi S1 is probably the best sounding car ever in my opinion
 
Try it out in GT4 :)
Honestly, though group B cars have nearly twice as much power the development in aerodynamics, handling and especially tires since that area has been significiantly - I can imagine that group B cars are faster in a straight line or climbing Pike's Peak - but in evey other category WRC cars should be the faster ones.
 
Group B cars would get around a little slower than modern WRC racers on a twisty track. Group B's were absurdly fast but didnt have the handling prowess that WRC cars have today.
 
How well would the old drivers like Ari Vatenen, Walter Rohl, Michelle Mouton, Stig Blomqvist, Hanu Mikola do today if they were to drive the group B cars agian? would they still be as fas?. I imagine they are quite older now and have been out of full on professional racing for a while.



If the Delta S4 can go to 60 in 2.5 sec on gravel, did anyone ever test it on the street, or "tarmac" as europeans call it. I imagine that it would be crazy fast. It's amazing that cars designed and raced 25 years ago can still spank a lot of todays supercars.

I really wish that racing was like it was int the 70's and 80's ;)
 
Mischief007 said:
^ Is that with a Group B driver? They should bring one from that era via the Time Machine. Then it could be a legitimate comparison. No one these days could drive the Group B cars like the Rally drivers used to.
Click to expand...
Even the old times are slower. Many stages are the same as they were back in the day, so the times can be compared. ;)
 
Viper007Bond said:
Even the old times are slower. Many stages are the same as they were back in the day, so the times can be compared. ;)
Click to expand...


Where do you find the times for different rallies and what stages they ran?


I good comparison would be the times from the corsica rally for WRC and Gr. B . I doubt that the course has changed much over the years becasue I don't think there is really any other places it could have been run because Corsica is pretty cmall
 
Thrasher said:
Viper007Bond said:
Even the old times are slower. Many stages are the same as they were back in the day, so the times can be compared. ;)
Click to expand...


Where do you find the times for different rallies and what stages they ran?
Click to expand...
I don't know of a site, I've just read it places that modern cars are faster.
 
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