Gun Control doesn't bloody work!

hanasand said:
Oh, and one more http://www.gun-control-network.org/CO15.htm

A nice quote from the beginning of this text:

"Gun enthusiasts often claim that there is no link between legal ownership of guns and gun crime - legal guns are legal, illegal guns are illegal and, according to them, never the twain shall meet.

Obviously this is not the case."

A-burn. I rest my case.
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:lmao:

I'm sorry. But did you even read the page from which you quoted? It's an article about Gun "Misappropriation" in England and Wales. Burn, you say? :p Hardly.
 
Doesn't exactly prove you right now does it.
 
No, and what you say makes sense. It's just not quite as big a problem as people think, that's all. Most gun owners take their weapons quite seriously and lock them up. They can be very expensive, so you don't want to leave them lying around where they can be easily stolen.
 
Take into account that they don't tell you WHERE it's stolen from. criminals jack other criminals all the time. If I'm a gang member or drug dealer or whatever and I'm jacking someone and taking thier money, drugs etc I'm going to take thier guns too.

And the percentage is so small that you would have a better time outlawing alcohol, medicine, cars, etc. because they cause more deaths. Guns are just very emotive and provoke fear in people, and then those people who are so scarred by guns because they don't know any better run around ranting and raving about how guns are bad and people are bad therefore nobody but the power figures in our society can be trusted with them. Of course, this goes against the constitution and there is innumerable evidence to the contrary throughout history(kind of the reason it's in our constitution in the first place).

Also, let's clear something up. Those opposed to gun control aren't in favor of just letting and restrictions go and handing out guns and ammo to everyone. The restrictions in place serve thier pupose and serve it well and I could think of one further "restriction" that would be good, and that's firearm licensing. I think the safety courses that are mandated for CCW permits should be mandated for all firearm types.
 
hanasand said:
Someone else told you that you cant do an abortion after 16 weeks.

Someone else told you that you have to pay tax.

Someone else told you that you cant beat people to death.

Someone else told you that your new car has to have seatbelts.

Someone else told you that you have to wear clothes in public...

The list goes on.. Do you get the point?
Someone else made these rules, based on whats wanted by the majority.
But if the majority wants these free gun-laws then someone else wont tell you otherwise..

(Okay I made myself a bit lost there... where was I going with this.. shit)
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And that is the reasoning used by despots throughout the ages. Our Constitution is supposed to demand governing by the majority, but also to protect the minority from the majority.

Sorry, I know this was from the last page but I had to reply to it. I have had internet problems recently and I feel that I created a monster.

I'll just say this. If the argument that more guns means more shooting deaths then Texas, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Wyoming and other rural conservative gun-loving states would have the most shooting deaths per-capita. It just isn't so. California, which has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country also has one of the highest rates of gun-related crime. Here in California I avoid going out after dark and I NEVER go out on a holiday like Halloween or New Years. Ever. This is the first place I have lived where I am honestly scared for my safety. I never got that in Utah or Colorado both of which have very leinient gun laws. Hell, there was a guy in my undergraduate classes who would walk around with a Glock on his hip some nights - and no, he wasn't a cop. My own father has a CCP (Concealed Carry Permit) and frequently packs a pistol.

So explain to me how the state with the most restrictive gun laws also is one of the nation's leaders in gun crime? They keep passing more and more laws restricting legal ownership thus guaranteeing that criminals will face unarmed victims. The argument seems to be that restricting legal gun ownership somehow influences illegal ownership. It doesn't there's no connection. Illegal guns get smuggled into our ports or from other states. If a criminal wants a gun he will get it. The reasoning is simply naive, Nations have banned firearms ownership and criminals still get the guns. What part of "criminal" is hard to understand? Laws don't matter, law abiding people are not the ones you need to worry about - they aren't the ones holding up old ladies for their pearls or knocking over liquor stores. Criminals do that, and breaking a gun law is nothing to them.

No one outside the US has even addressed the cultural consideration here. The history of the United States is the history of firearms development. Our country was founded on armed insurgency, something that no European country can claim. In Europe firearms have always been controlled since the 1400s! The peasants never became accustomed to firearms ownership because the feudal lords didn't want the farmers to have the ability to easily kill a mounted knight. Early firearms were recorded to penetrate armor as early as 1425. The US is a much younger nation and as the colonies we had to embrace firearms as a means of survival. The history of our nation can be seen in the types of firearms possessed by our people. You can't separate the two in history and you certainly can't now.
 
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I would just like to add that if your idea of freedom and democracy is being told what to do then I would hate to live where you live.
 
zenkidori said:
I would just like to add that if your idea of freedom and democracy is being told what to do then I would hate to live where you live.
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Nobody tells me a goddamn thing OK?
Guns don't equal freedom OK?
 
-Cpt. J.- said:
Nobody tells me a goddamn thing OK?
Guns don't equal freedom OK?
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Actually in the United States they DO equal freedom. As I said, our nation was founded on armed insurgency against the crown of England. To us guns do mean freedom. We fought for and won our freedom with firearms and the founding fathers recognized the importance of that act and drafted the Second Amendment to ensure that the people would always have the means to take back their government from those in control. Why do you think that we are "by the people, for the people?"

It seems interesting that the first complaint about Americans is that they don't respect the culture of other nations, but in this discussion there has been more cultural awareness demonstrated by the Americans than by anyone else.
 
Guncontrol in the US obviously wouldn't hurt BUT I can see a point in owning a couple of assault-rifles though if I lived in the States. They are after all very fun to shoot.

What I do wonder though is: Can you just go into a Gunshop and just buy anything or do they run a backgroundcheck or so on you.
Here in Sweden we have guncontrol but owning a pistol or a rifle (though no assaultrifles and similar military weaponry) isn't do difficult. You do some tests and obtain a license which I think is a good compromise. Also you are required to store your gun in a weaponssafe so it can't be stolen.
 
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Svempa said:
Guncontrol in the US obviously wouldn't hurt BUT I can see a point in owning a couple of assault-rifles though if I lived in the States. They are after all very fun to shoot.

What I do wonder though is: Can you just go into a Gunshop and just buy anything or do they run a backgroundcheck or so on you.
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There are around 20,000 gun laws in the USA. So we do have Gun Control, but we are still allowed to own them and carry, so long as you're not mentally insane or an ex-felon.

There is a required 3 day waiting period and a FBI background check to purchase a gun from a gun shop. The 3 day waiting period is kinda pointless really. No more paperwork in the 21st century. The FBI background check takes 6 seconds. I think the waiting period is more for people who're planning something extreme and unwise; might give them time enough to reconsider.

Of course, you can always buy weapons private party and not have a background check or waiting period. But you'll be in deep shit if you get caught selling a gun to a minor or ex-felon.
 
The waiting period is state by state, Colorado does not have one. They have a instant background check via computer. I think California's is 5 day, but I'm not sure. You also cannot own a gun if you have a restraining order and a few other things, like being treated for drug abuse etc(even tho you may not be a felon). There are a LOT of laws to keep track of.

Also, the "gun show" loophole was closed. If you are caught selling arms via private sale to someone who wouldn't qualify you get to go to jail. I think to transfer ownership now you need to go to a gun shop and have them do all the procedures.
 
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