Gun politics thread

LeVeL

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GRtak;n3547556 said:
I think this is just further proof that teachers(even a part time cop) having a gun into a school is a bad idea.
Clearly the law prevented this student from being shot by an untrained NRA member.

Oh wait, a trained cop broke the law when this happened, oops.


Government agencies have been failing miserably at stopping mass shooters. I can't even imagine how deep your head needs to be stuck in the sand to conclude that the only logical solution is turn to government agencies for help. So far the ideas from the left have been to pass more laws that won't do a damn thing to a) stop people from breaking laws, and b) improve the efficiency of enforcement of current laws. You have nothing but ineffective and illogical proposals, yet you keep turning down the one thing that might actually work - have good guys with guns be right on the scene as first responders.
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And in case you're about to complain how you don't believe this or that and that I'm making assumptions, if that's the case then go ahead and actually write out your ideas. All you ever post is stupid little one-liners; if what I said above isn't part of your solutions, how about you actually tell us your ideas and then we can discuss their pros and cons?
 

GRtak

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Last time I checked, public schools are a government funded entity. So how is this better than the other government entities?
 

GRtak

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And yet you can't even answer the question without resorting to your own post with a lack of substance.

Unlike you, I don't see a magic answer, so it is impossible to give you a direct response that you are requesting(or demanding).
 

LeVeL

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You don't have any answers - you just post little one-liners bashing others' suggestions without anything to back it up.

Gun control doesn't work. Cops can't magically appear whenever a crime is about to happen. The solution is to have someone who is armed at the school. How is this difficult to grasp?
 

GRtak

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Do you really believe that the teachers that get training will get adequate training? Should we make the schools into prisons that both keep the bad guys out and the children in? It is a bad knee jerk idea.
 

LeVeL

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GRtak;n3547572 said:
Do you really believe that the teachers that get training will get adequate training?
This is the argument I've been using against mandatory training for concealed carry :lol: Millions of people legally and safely carry guns at the mall, grocery stores, restaurants, parks, gas stations, offices, etc etc etc. Why in the world does doing the same at a school or the post office result in a jail sentence? Makes no sense.
 

GRtak

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I just posted an example of a guy that has training that acted like an idiot and injured 3 students in the process.

Let me dig up another example for you. Do you remember this guy? "I am the only guy here that I am aware of that is professional enough to handle a Glock". BOOM!

At least he only shot himself.
 

JCE

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You still ignored my Utah teachers comment. On purpose or did you legitimately overlook it? I'll wait.
 

73GMCSprint

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GRtak;n3547575 said:
I just posted an example of a guy that has training that acted like an idiot and injured 3 students in the process.

Let me dig up another example for you. Do you remember this guy? "I am the only guy here that I am aware of that is professional enough to handle a Glock". BOOM!

At least he only shot himself.
There's training and then there's "training." And then there's actually following the training you received. Just like driving a car. If you don't follow the training you will potentially kill people. Orders of magnitude more people are killed because they don't follow their training when driving than are killed by guns, whether on purpose or by accident, yet we're not seriously talking about banning cars.

Also, define adequate/proper training. In my area there are local businesses paying for teachers to go to training programs such as Front Sight. Is that good enough for you?
 

GRtak

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I never said anything about banning guns.

Yes, training that will be mostly ignored after initially taking it. That is the same problem that most police have. Sadly, most departments do not require regular qualifying.

NRA training must also be somewhat lax.
 

prizrak

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GRtak;n3547572 said:
Do you really believe that the teachers that get training will get adequate training? Should we make the schools into prisons that both keep the bad guys out and the children in? It is a bad knee jerk idea.
Why is it a bad idea? My highschool had metal detectors, guards and only one entry point exposed at any given time. Never had any school shootings.. (after school sure but not during)
GRtak;n3547584 said:
I never said anything about banning guns.

Yes, training that will be mostly ignored after initially taking it.
You realize that logically your second statement contradicts your first. If millions of people who carry guns cannot be trusted to do so in a safe and responsible manner the only logical conclusion is for them to not carry guns. That is to say nothing of the validity of your statement since out of literal millions of guns accidental deaths are in the hundreds.
 
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GRtak

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There is no contradiction there. What you are failing to take into account is that people become lax with things they do on a regular basis. Add in inadequate training, and they can't even recognize when they are becoming lax.

When I got my CCW, it was not an easy process(early 90s). Now that things are much easier, I see on a regular basis how careless some of these people are. You would think they are carrying a screwdriver instead of a firearm. It is amazing to me how many people want to come and show off the gun they are carrying. Most of those do so without ever removing the magazine, or the bullet in the chamber. Some of those also do so while touching the trigger. One of those has shot himself not long after.
 

prizrak

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I am not failing to take anything into account, I am well aware of human nature and general laziness, yet all you provide is anecdotal data. There are statistics on accidental discharges and last I checked they were quite low given the number of firearms in circulation. If you can provide a trend from when it was harder (the 90s) to today where it is easier it would be helpful.

Additionally what do you actually suggest? A logical conclusion to what you are stating is that humans are too lax/stupid to be allowed deadly weapons.
 
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JCE

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prizrak;n3547769 said:
YouTube is a private company hence they can whatever they want.
I know, thought it would be a good topic for discussion. Don't mind me. :)
 

prizrak

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Well I don't think that YT is being very ethical here because they clearly favor one POV over another but seeing as how they are private there isn't much that can really be said about it.
 

Blind_Io

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Probably. Utah Gun Exchange is planning on launching a video hosting service to fill the gap left by YouTube. The whole company started when the local Not-Craigslist banned the sale of firearms related items, do this isn't new territory for them.
 
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