Gun politics thread

Momentum57

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Well, they are sure not a lot less essential than say, a clothing store or a gym.

But this sounds like a topic for the gun politics thread. :p ;)
This is a clothing optional emergency! Pants are not essential. Donald Ducking it is an acceptable day outfit.

Gun stores are easily more essential than a gym.
I think need Pepto because about to vomit from agreeing with LeVeL. For the purposes of this emergency a gym is unthinkable. I'm sorry but nobody was wiping down equipment to a sanitary degree.

Now I do think that owning a gun for home protective use is fair (unlikely but fair). Though I'd probably ask if you own a gun and have ammunition go home. If it isn't your only gun just order it online for social distancing sake.
 

Der Stig

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You still have to collect any firearm you order online from an FFL, which means going to a gun store.

ETA: this when you fill out a 4473 and have a background check run. And with how overwhelmed the NICS system is, probably get told to come back in several days.
 

Momentum57

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You still have to collect any firearm you order online from an FFL, which means going to a gun store.

ETA: this when you fill out a 4473 and have a background check run. And with how overwhelmed the NICS system is, probably get told to come back in several days.
If it isn't your only gun just order it online for social distancing sake.
By "it" I was referring to ammunition. That said for social distancing sake if you have one gun and ammunition just call it day. How many do you need to feel comfortable sitting at home? I can understand if you have concern of civil unrest a desire to get a gun, and if its your first you should be allowed to go to a range. However; I would wear latex gloves and a mask to be that close to people today. It is far more likely that you will be infected before you have a need for the gun you're buying today.
 

Der Stig

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Gotcha, yes, ammo can be ordered online, but it's selling out just about everywhere.

I'd speculate most folks buying guns right now are first time buyers. They may only have a 22 or grandpa's old shotgun or deer rifle. While possibly adequate, they're not always practical.

Also, given most major US city police departments' tacit admission that they won't be following up on theft or other petty crimes has people concerned. Given that there's legal precedent that the police are not obliged to help, even in matters of life or death, it's easy to see where this could go if things get significantly worse.

With the rampant unemployment and paranoia about the future of law and order, that may bother some people more than exposure to the virus.
 

Momentum57

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it's easy to see where this could go if things get significantly worse.
I think its a fantasy that this devolves into civil unrest and if it were to the last place I'm going to loot is homes (that shit be used they got the new stuff in Best Buy).

With the rampant unemployment and paranoia about the future of law and order, that may bother some people more than exposure to the virus.
Of course they are contributing to making it worse by increasing the spread the virus. Plus more people than ever are covered under unemployment provided by the government with more money than ever provided.

Gotcha, yes, ammo can be ordered online, but it's selling out just about everywhere.
Stupidly so too again a box and you should fine. Its not like you should be going to the range other than first familiarization. If it were to devolve into civil unrest the last place you would target is the house with a dead body out front.

I'd speculate most folks buying guns right now are first time buyers. They may only have a 22 or grandpa's old shotgun or deer rifle. While possibly adequate, they're not always practical.
Beyond adequate is people throwing away money. Any one of those guns are more than adequate.

Again wide spread civil unrest is a fantasy but gun stores are essential to provide comfort
 

RdKetchup

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Not laughing anymore... 1/3 of my collection has been classified prohibited today.

This means I'm not allowed to transport the affected firearms to the range, I cannot sell them, they are basically paperweights.

There is a 2 year amnesty period before I become a criminal for possessing them.

A buyback might be announced later (though I doubt I would get anything close to the roughly 5000$ they are worth). Maybe grandfathering will be introduced, but I would still not be able to use them.
 

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I thought they could be legally sold outside Canada?
 

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I know you guys don't have a Second Amendment, but is there any hope of a challenge to it in the court system?

That said, I can't say I didn't see this coming when the Liberals (and before anyone gets their panties in a twist, I'm referring to a specific Canadian political party) passed a measure that allowed them to decide whether a gun is considered unrestricted, restricted, or prohibited by decree instead of with parliamentary consent.
 
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Blind_Io

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I've had my eye on a Scorpion for a while - I've been saving up my Cabela's gift cards towards one.
 

RdKetchup

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Sorry y'all got hosed :(

I will happily assist and attempt to figure out how to buy some from you and deal with import mess if you're game.
Thanks for that, it's very thoughtful.

I'm conflicted on that. If there is any hint that the government might change in 3 years and reverse the law, grand-fathering would probably be my best solution.

Also, the market for AR-15 and AR-10 is so much cheaper in the USA, that I would lose a shitton of money. They both cost me around 1300~1500 $ (USD).

The Scorpion might be a better fit for export (as a pistol).
 

Der Stig

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Hopefully the Canucks in Charge pull their heads out of their asses. But until then...

1588380061330.jpeg


1588380093950.jpeg
 

Momentum57

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Good to know you think so little of me. There are a whole lot of moderates and even people to the left who only own firearms because of the rise of the alt-right and the well documented infiltration of law enforcement by alt-right/neo nazi elements - meaning complaints to the police of racially motivated crimes die on a shelf somewhere.
I believe in law enforcement writ large and I believe in retaining the best lawyers money can buy. I don't think having a gun makes you any more safe from the nightmare scenario you are outlining. I'd caution any "moderate" from buying weapons to defend themselves from police or officers of the court.

I am? I carry when I go out for two reasons:
Because wearing a mask and gloves has become an advertisement of one's politics
Because Kiki is ethnically Chinese and there have been hate crimes targeting people of Chinese heritage because idiot right-wing fuckstains think they are spreading the virus.
To various degrees in regards to an advertisement of politics. I'd depends on if your community or neighbor community require compliance. Also it's the current administration CDC guidelines that recommend it.

Concerns in the second part. As a gay man in an interracial relationship I can understand your feelings. However; out of the home, guns as personal defense have significant issues. Please find legal representation prior to the day you need it. I say that as a man with a number in my wallet.

Do you really think that I'm going to murder a store employee?
I don't think thats what's bringing anyone to the stores
 
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Blind_Io

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I didn't say they were buying guns to protect themselves from police, I said they are buying guns because they have no faith in the police to protect them. Like the Neo Nazis that set up a sniper nest over their March and the police did nothing. The police have a long history of turning their backs on minorities and the disenfranchised. I was just reading about a black delivery driver who was illegally detained by a neighbor for over an hour, he called the police and they never showed up.
 

Momentum57

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I would caution anyone from responding to false imprisonment with anything other than calling an attorney to bring a tort claim.

The issues you raise that are valid concerns but I'm not sure how a gun would help the situation.
 

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Immediate threat to life or limb is a pretty damn good reason to have a gun for personal defense - especially when the police have a habit of not showing up. This time it was false imprisonment by two people, there have already been fatalities from disputes over COVID and hate crimes towards Asians.

Sorry, but if I'm outnumbered and people are wanting to attack my wife, I am 100% going to draw to defend myself and her. I hope I never have to, and it will always be a last resort - but if it comes to that unlikely but very real scenario, I want to be able to protect myself and my family with any means necessary including lethal force.
 

Momentum57

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I'd strongly counsel to deescalate the situation, retreat, call authorities, and personal representation.
 

Blind_Io

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Those are always the first options, but they aren't always going to work. I hope I go my entire life and never have to draw on anyone, ever, for any reason. I would much rather deescalate, withdraw, and report. There are situations that can arise when calling the police is something you end up doing after shots are fired in defense or a gun is drawn in defense. My neighbor and his two sons work in law enforcement, my other neighbor has trained our local PD and SWAT team; every single one has told me the same thing: if your life and safety are in imminent danger, end the threat, then call the police to report what happened. Their best-case scenario response time is about 7 minutes. Set a timer for that long and try to imagine fighting for your life against a determined attacker or attackers hoping the police managed to get your information and that they have an officer close by who can get there.

Now, imagine that the police have no duty to show up at all and no duty to protect you. The Supreme Court has made multiple rulings on this and they have all been the same - the police have no duty to protect you from harm.

So if some racist alt-right neo-Nazi fuckstain of a human decides that he's going to attack me for being a "race traitor" or my wife for "spreading the 'Rona" I am going to try to get away, I'm going to try to get help, but if that person or group persists and threatens immediate harm, I will have the means to protect myself and my family from that persistent and immediate threat. It's unlikely that would happen, but it's not about the chances, it's about the stakes.
 
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