Happy 100th Ronnie. Pres. Reagan would have turned 100 today.

Hidden_Hunter

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If he wouldn't of supplied the Mujahideen we never would of heard of Osama Bin Laden.

If he wouldn't of supplied weapons to Iran during the Iran/Iraq war Iran probably would of lost and it wouldn't be the problem it is today.

He once talked about how the New Deal helped his family survive but spent most of his presidency disassembling it.

Reminds me of one of Reagan's great moments: when he refused to take sanctions against the Apartheid regime in S Africa because 'Mandela is a communist.' McCarthy taught him all he knew.

Sorry I don't think he is a great man.
Hindsight is great
 

nomix

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Yeah. But there's still a moral responsibility.
 

GRtak

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again, then why post.
Sorry this isn't your Regan praise-a-thon that you wanted, no, not really. Forums are about ideas and opinions, if we can't state our opinions in this thread then why can you in others that are made by people that dis-agree with you?
 

Viper007Bond

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Yeah, thanks so much Reagan for a lot of the economical shit we've had to deal with over the past 10-20 years.
 

BlaRo

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Oh no, Sik Pony! Some people on this forum have a different opinion than you! How will you ever live with the fact that somebody, somewhere, disagrees with you?! :eek:

Reagan was one of the most controversial presidents in US history in a way that, say, Grover Cleveland never was. What did you expect, honestly?

Personally, I'm split on my opinion of him. There's no doubt as to his legacy, leadership, and his willingness to stand up to the Soviets in a way few other presidents before him could, but he also oversaw the rise of the Christian Right and its representation and emphasis in the Republican Party on moral issues, which explains why the Republicans see him as a demigod worthy of sainthood. He basically created their current template today. And with the business in Afghanistan and Iran, his tearing down the wall only replaced one American enemy with another. Iran-Contra was nothing short of an embarrassment of the country.

And don't drag Obama bashing into this, America is already neck-deep into pointless, baseless criticism of him on everything from aliens to cancelling Arrested Development.
 

RaptorJesus

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No one gets into high political office without a loss of integrity. Obama, Reagan, and probably George Washington all did it. I would never idolize any President just for the fact that getting there meant that somebody lined their pockets. That being said, he was probably a good man, good father and husband, and that alone makes him better than many people.
 

argatoga

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but he also oversaw the rise of the Christian Right and its representation and emphasis in the Republican Party on moral issues, which explains why the Republicans see him as a demigod worthy of sainthood.
You can blame Nixon for that. Regan was a powerful President that's why many of them look back at him with nostalgia.
 

LeVeL

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Oh no, Sik Pony! Some people on this forum have a different opinion than you! How will you ever live with the fact that somebody, somewhere, disagrees with you?! :eek:
I think he made this thread just to remember a great man, a great President, and it wasn't his intention to turn this into a discussion/debate. Now, I don't see how that could ever be possible in a political forum but I think that's what he had in mind.


... which explains why the Republicans see him as a demigod worthy of sainthood.
I love it when people start imagining things and using hyperbole like that.


And don't drag Obama bashing into this, America is already neck-deep into pointless, baseless criticism of him on everything from aliens to cancelling Arrested Development.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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gtrietsc

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I think Reagan's pros outweighed the cons. What bothers me is the current crop of super-Conservatives that are trying to adopt his image like he is one of them (Palin). I think Reagan would be pretty annoyed with the state of politics in this country today.
 

jasonof2000

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Hindsight is great
I'm probably looking at arming the Mujahideen as a bad idea as hindsight but in most peoples minds arming a bunch of radical religious fundies is a bad idea, besides a Communist Afghanistan probably would of been better off than the mess it became under the Taliban (at least the Soviets wouldn't of allowed the practice of Bacha Bazi or other disgusting crap those child molesters practice).

Reagan refusing to put sanctions on South Africa is just a lack of morals. I know a few gay people who despise him because of his administration cutting funds and forbidding the CDC to study the HIV and AIDS virus during the AIDS crisis back in the 80's.

Selling weapons to Iran was illegal and probably traitorous. Even if it was selling weapons to a US ally such a sale violated many US laws and FMS procedure. To make things worse he sold these parts and weapons to a nation hostile to the US and then to make matters worse he funneled that money to a bunch of South American terrorists! Can you imagine the shit storm if Clinton or Obama got caught doing something like that? But wait he was the baby boomers cheerleader so it was ok.
At the time Iran's military was pretty much all US sourced material. If it wasn't for the Reagan administration and Isreal selling them parts and weapons Iran wouldn't of been able to keep combat operations going for very long.
 

nomix

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I think he made this thread just to remember a great man, a great President, and it wasn't his intention to turn this into a discussion/debate. Now, I don't see how that could ever be possible in a political forum but I think that's what he had in mind.
I think that too. However, you can't expect that in the political section of this forum.

I love it when people start imagining things and using hyperbole like that.
I have to admit there have been times when I get just that impression from some republicans.
 

captain_70s

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I sort of understand when people make RIP topics, but celebrating a dead man's non-existant birthday?

I know what the purpose of this threat was intended to celebrate his life but this is the political forum as LeVel said and does normally tend to be a board for debating.
In fact you asked for people's opinions in the first post.
Sik Pony said:
Anyone here have any memories of him?
The guy did good, the guy did bad. Just a man being a man, great at some things, not at others. I don't quite see why this thread exists when there isn't one for every other historical leader.

People will always have differing opinions and want to vocalise them, some may think he was great, some might not. I can't help thinking arguing over what he was long after he has died is slightly pointless...
 
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LeVeL

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I have to admit there have been times when I get just that impression from some republicans.
That's why I said "people", not "democrats" :p
And yes, I am somewhat of a hypocrite, I suppose, but I'm working on that :lol:
 

DubyaStep

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Oh no, Sik Pony! Some people on this forum have a different opinion than you! How will you ever live with the fact that somebody, somewhere, disagrees with you?! :eek:

Reagan was one of the most controversial presidents in US history in a way that, say, Grover Cleveland never was. What did you expect, honestly?

Personally, I'm split on my opinion of him. There's no doubt as to his legacy, leadership, and his willingness to stand up to the Soviets in a way few other presidents before him could, but he also oversaw the rise of the Christian Right and its representation and emphasis in the Republican Party on moral issues, which explains why the Republicans see him as a demigod worthy of sainthood. He basically created their current template today. And with the business in Afghanistan and Iran, his tearing down the wall only replaced one American enemy with another. Iran-Contra was nothing short of an embarrassment of the country.

And don't drag Obama bashing into this, America is already neck-deep into pointless, baseless criticism of him on everything from aliens to cancelling Arrested Development.
Relax, i never said i have a problem with others opinions. as a matter of fact i have made that pretty clear that i support everybodys rights to thier opinions in this forum over the YEARS. Please see below quote

I think he made this thread just to remember a great man, a great President, and it wasn't his intention to turn this into a discussion/debate. Now, I don't see how that could ever be possible in a political forum but I think that's what he had in mind.
thats exactly what i thought, it was worth a shot. i have always wondered what the rest of the world thought of him. I admire the good things he did.

I sort of understand when people make RIP topics, but celebrating a dead man's non-existant birthday?

I know what the purpose of this threat was intended to celebrate his life but this is the political forum as LeVel said and does normally tend to be a board for debating.
In fact you asked for people's opinions in the first post.

The guy did good, the guy did bad. Just a man being a man, great at some things, not at others. I don't quite see why this thread exists when there isn't one for every other historical leader.

People will always have differing opinions and want to vocalise them, some may think he was great, some might not. I can't help thinking arguing over what he was long after he has died is slightly pointless...
Just thought it would be a good discussion. seems to be going some what good just not the direction i intended but, oh well.
 

nomix

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Do excuse me for going slightly off topic, but I think we should do the same next January 30th, that should be an interesting discussion. After all, if Reagan is the alter at which republicans play pray (for God's sake.. play..), FDR is the alter at which most democrats pray.
 
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tigger

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I don't know why I felt the need to reply to everything in the thread, but here goes:

... a firm believer in American exceptionalism.
The idea that we're somehow qualitatively better than any other nation, just by being the US, does nothing but hinder us. By many quantitative measure's we're not "better" than a number of nations. Going around parroting, "the US is the best nation ever" does absolutely nothing to make it true. All it does is make us look like a bunch of assholes.

i completely agree. Reagan was an American first then a Politician, IMO Obama is a politician first then a President then an American(?). I see it as one of the main differences between the left and right.
I disagree. Reagan was the very definition of a politician. A former actor, but with some seemingly genuine conviction behind his political views. Able to speak plainly, but without coming off as ignorant. Was he "an American first"? Well ... he was a Californian at least. Anyway, every president since could only aspire to his example. The fact that he had such a formative impact on your own political views should testify to that.

As for the comparison between Reagan and Obama, they've got much, much more in common than most people (on either side) would like to admit.

Make another thread on August 4th and watch the jizz fly :lol:
So what you're saying is, you prefer the circlejerks? :p

Like nomix posted, FDR would be a much better example. I'd be fine with Eisenhower or Truman as well. But Obama? Meh.

This is why nomix is smarter then most of the rest of you.
Because he wasn't educated in the US? :lol:

I think you might be right though (about Reagan). While many in the GOP love to invoke the name of Reagan, I wonder if they'd support his policies now. Teabaggers and even some closer to center GOP'ers have taken his ideas and run with them for 20 years now, trying to take them to their 'logical' ends. Who knows if Reagan would've pushed things so far.

If he wouldn't of supplied the Mujahideen we never would of heard of Osama Bin Laden.
Bin Laden would've been a problem one way or another. Like BR said, the proxy war was necessary to limit the Soviets influence in the region. The failure on our part wasn't that we armed/trained these guys, it was that once the conflict ended ... we simply left them to their own devices. The Taliban turned their attention to taking over Afghanistan. Al Qaeda, obviously, turned its focus towards international terrorism and spreading their particular ideology.

If he wouldn't of supplied weapons to Iran during the Iran/Iraq war Iran probably would of lost and it wouldn't be the problem it is today.
We gave Iran a bunch of anti-tank and anti-air missiles 6 years into an 8 year long war (which at that point had degenerated into trench warfare). The point was securing US hostages. Stupid? Sure. But did it change the outcome of the war or would Iraq have won without those sales? Hardly.

Don't get me wrong, I have problems with most of Reagan's policies. Just wanted to add a little perspective.

You can blame Nixon for that. Regan was a powerful President that's why many of them look back at him with nostalgia.
Sure he played the "goddamn hippies" card pretty well, but Nixon never had the whole Jerry Falwell/Moral Majority insanity backing him up. Reagan was the first Republican president to truly exploit the Christian right.

I love it when people start imagining things and using hyperbole like that.
You should talk to some Texans about Reagan. :lol:
 

tigger

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No, he doesn't. Shame too, because he can pull an argument together very nicely. And I doubt he deifies Reagan like the people I'm poking fun at, but I don't know.
 

Cobol74

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He (R Reagan) was a very good president for us, Obama hates our guts. Reagan really got on with Mrs Thatcher, I like to think that it helped a tiny bit in the opposition to the "Evil Empire".
 

Plissken

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Obama doesn't hate our guts. He simply has a better idea of the balance in the "Special Relationship" than we do.
 
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