HeraldSun: Top Gear host Jeremy Clarkson calls Ben The Stig Collins a greedy tw*t

[TC]

They need to look at themselves and take this in context. I hope the hosts show more discretion when talking about this in the future, really.

+1

Honestly, I knew the identity of the Stig was floating around. Lots of people knew. But I never cared, so I never bothered looking it up. In all the years of watching the show, I never even tried to google it, because I just don't care. Had the BBC and Jezza not blown it all out of proportion, I would have never noticed this guy's book.

Of course the BBC wouldn't have let him publish a book- hence why they took him to court. But evidently he had signed something/agreed to terms that didn't let him publicise him as the Stig outside of Top Gear/reveal his identity, so if he didn't like that he shouldn't have signed the terms/tried to re-negotiate them. It's the whole "you made your bed, now you have to sleep in it" idea- you can't change the rules of the game halfway through. But I guess the courts did so probably the BBC did an insufficient job of making the contract watertight.

And as I've maintained from the beginning, I will never argue that the guy has no right whatsoever to profit from his role of Top Gear. What i will argue however is that he probably should have no right to do so in the way he has whilst the show is still running and whilst he was still employed. Wait until you quit/the show ends yes, but I just can't see the justification in pretty much so committing job suicide by going behind you employer (and freind's) backs to do this. Maybe I'm too soft! :lol:

I wouldn't say too soft, maybe too sentimental about the show. The simple truth is that the whole secret of the Stigs identity became a gimmick. They made one big joke about who he might be or what he might be. A robot, Michael Schumacher, an alien, who knows?!!4@$# But in the end it does not matter who he is. I would really love to see the BBC try to prove that Ben Collins' admission of being the Stig damaged the show and/or caused any fallout with the audience. If anything, like I said before, the ratings will go up and the rich will get richer.

Jeremy has never screwed the Team like this, that I know of. Contract or not, Collins knew he was doing this wrong.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how writing an autobiography "screwed the team". It's not like Ben Collins possessed the top secret formula for television success and sold it to the highest bidder. All he did was say, "Yep, I worked on that show, I played the white tame racing driver." I'm not seeing anyone getting screwed here, well except maybe Ben himself for the past several years.

Well, after the court battle and his very public announcement of him being the Stig..and oh yeah...buy my book. The filming for the next season for Top Gear was suppose to start next week. Now, they gotta take that time to go through this mess, then get and introduce a new Stig.

Ben Collins didn't quit the show, did he? If the BBC decided to fire him, than that's their decision and they'll have to deal with the consequences. If they gave a rat's ass about him, they probably would have tried to keep him on, a part of the team with equal credit, rather than sacking him and calling him a greedy backstabbing twat, just for writing his life's story.

See my post in the other thread. I agree, and disagree with this. If it's really a 'secret that everyone knows.." then nothing would have stopped him from making money on that.

There's a difference. People are going to find out who he is. There are paper trails you know. Why is the BBC paying this touring car driver so much and so steadily for the past so many years? The difference is that he was never allowed to admit it. He was never allowed to take credit for any of his work on one of the most popular shows of all time. Even when he's off working on his own projects outside of the BBC, he was not allowed to include anything from TG in his resume.

I agree 100% that he should be paid lots more, and if the Team didn't give a shit about him, he'd have been thrown aside with the first whiff of the book issue. But they ALL decided to talk him out of it (If I remember correctly) and then asked for, or helped them get a replacement BEFORE he did the book deal.

Why does it matter? For me, the only reason the Stig was meant to be anonymous was to simplify things on the show. So they can use different drivers to post the lap times, without having to introduce new drivers each time. It also makes things simple when discussing the power lap board, because you can't criticize certain lap times on certain drivers, since they were all done by the same anonymous character. The Stig could be easily replaced or substituted should something happen to the real Stig, like a racing accident injury.

It wasn't until the show exploded in the ratings that they sold out and made a character out of the Stig. Selling tshirts and merchandise, cashing in on the character. It doesn't surprise me that the man behind the mask wanted his fair share of credit after so many years of being brushed under the rug.


IMO, they should have just fired Ben, maybe tried taking him to court, but they should have never made a big deal about it. No public statements, no Jeremy going on day time TV and making a big deal about it, nothing. No comment. They would be wise to keep on using the same white Stig in the upcoming series and not mention one word about this Ben Collins person. Just find another talented racing driver and stick him in the suit and don't say a word about it. Just continue on as normal. All this "TG is hurt, but not out" bullshit makes me gag.

 

[MattD1zzl3]

Does anyone really want to read the autobiography of a F3000 driver? If this were just that with a passing mention of his TV work i'd side with him, but he's cashing in on the stig thing...

Oh, and all of you saying "But clarkson makes loads!", well clarkson didnt sign a confidentiality agreement as a condition of his employment, did he?

 

[narf]

Additionally, Clarkson is one of the guys who came up with the whole thing. If you make up some great stuff you're welcome to cash in on it. The Stig actor did not come up with anything as far as we know.

 

[_HighVoltage_]

Two points I'd like to make.
1. The book will probably be terrible. It's exactly the sort of thing Top Gear had been making fun of for years - racing drivers. They have no character. What is he gonna write about. "And in this race I finished third, after i overtook this bloke, by applying 16% of opposite lock on this corner."

2. It could all be just a marketing scheme. Just like Aerosmith - oh my God, Steven Tyler is out. Oh no, he is not, he is coming back etc, etc...
Can you imagine the number of viewers for the first episode of the next season. Everyone in the world will be in front of the TV wanting to see what they have done without the Stig.

 

[kurthest]

All I know is, I'm not gonna buy his book!

 

[jedd_kenobi]

i might buy his book, attend a book signing and then force him to eat every single page. maybe FG should do to Ben Collins what those tree hugging hippies did to Tony Blair at his book signing.

 

[pulse]

How did Ben Collins screw the TopGear "team"? By wanting alittle credit for his own hard work?

He got this credit already. It's called a "regular paycheck".

In much the same way that I get my credit each week from my employer deposited into my bank account. Just because I work hard, it doesn't give me any right to go off and sell my employer's secrets to an open market, which is precisely what he has done.

 

[4 IN 1]

Some people here seems to have fail to understand the words "honesty" "trust" and "contract spirit" and twist the matter into "who should make more/less money"

Like Andy said, its a matter of trust, you agree to not talk about the bit that both side agree not to for whatever cost, you are supposed to do exactly the same, even if the law won't stop you from doing it because some mess up on paperwork, but you are being dishonest to your word, you cheated, you break the trust, and more importantly you make money out of it, of cause those trusted you can call you a traitor or in this case a fuckin greedy twat.

If you still dont understand, let me put it in this way: Will you still call you boyfriend/girlfriend "my dear" if they cheated and make a profit selling video of you two making love?

 

[Cobol74]

We've gone all American since the law changed about suing people a few years ago (well about 20 actually) it used to be a better more serene place before that. Bloody Government (Both lots) - bunch of B******s.

 

[TC]

Additionally, Clarkson is one of the guys who came up with the whole thing. If you make up some great stuff you're welcome to cash in on it. The Stig actor did not come up with anything as far as we know.

I'm sure he came up with some impressive driving and good racing lines on the TG track.

He got this credit already. It's called a "regular paycheck".

In much the same way that I get my credit each week from my employer deposited into my bank account. Just because I work hard, it doesn't give me any right to go off and sell my employer's secrets to an open market, which is precisely what he has done.

That's just a paycheck, I'm talking about actually getting credit for the work. It would be like if you worked for a custom flooring company and you did all the tile work, including the intricate stuff that ends up getting tons of attention, but your employer tells you that you're not allowed to tell anyone that you did the tile. The company takes the credit for it, while you do the hard work. After so many years, you may be inclined to tell the truth too. And I'm sure your boss might get pissed, because he wanted to profit off you some more first. Well boo hoo.

Some people here seems to have fail to understand the words "honesty" "trust" and "contract spirit" and twist the matter into "who should make more/less money"

Like Andy said, its a matter of trust, you agree to not talk about the bit that both side agree not to for whatever cost, you are supposed to do exactly the same, even if the law won't stop you from doing it because some mess up on paperwork, but you are being dishonest to your word, you cheated, you break the trust, and more importantly you make money out of it, of cause those trusted you can call you a traitor or in this case a fuckin greedy twat.

If you still dont understand, let me put it in this way: Will you still call you boyfriend/girlfriend "my dear" if they cheated and make a profit selling video of you two making love?

I think you're making mountains out of mole hills. This so-called "secret" wasn't much of a secret to begin with. The Stigs identity has been floating around for years. Your analogy is no where near appropriate. Imagine if your girlfriend/boyfriend forbid you from telling anyone that you two have sex. For years and years and years. Finally you just admit it and your significant other gets pissed off and dumps you. You'll probably walk away feeling better off without them. Just shows how much they really cared about you to begin with, letting something so stupid and petty end your relationship.



In the end it still comes down to this, all Ben Collins did was write a book about HIS life and he told the truth. I can understand revealing personal details about other peoples lives or something. If James May and Ben would hit the bong before each studio taping or something. Then I could understand some outrage. But revealing this non-secret? That's like writing a book about your career at McDonalds and revealing that the "secret sauce" is really thousand island salad dressing. :lol:

Jezza and the BBC are doing more to sell Ben's book than Ben ever did. All this outrage, insults, and controversy is just more money in Ben's pocket. And higher ratings next series for TopGear. It wouldn't surprise me if it was all planned from the start. It's always all about the money after all.

 

[narf]

I'm sure he came up with some impressive driving and good racing lines on the TG track.

Those are easily replaceable. I was talking about things like the concept of an unknown tame racing driver.

 

[EvoEvo]

Hmm that's a point TomCat - I wonder what is in the book? Any little secrets the TG team wouldn't want folk knowing about? Not that I'm going to read it of course, ahem.

 

[pulse]

That's just a paycheck, I'm talking about actually getting credit for the work. It would be like if you worked for a custom flooring company and you did all the tile work, including the intricate stuff that ends up getting tons of attention, but your employer tells you that you're not allowed to tell anyone that you did the tile. The company takes the credit for it, while you do the hard work. After so many years, you may be inclined to tell the truth too. And I'm sure your boss might get pissed, because he wanted to profit off you some more first. Well boo hoo.

It's not just a paycheck. He signed on with the fact that he would be totally anonymous. It was a condition of his employment, it was the whole idea. Your analogy is not correct.

It is more akin to you taking a job at a tiling place, being told that you are not, under any circumstances, allowed to tell anybody which pieces of work you created, you promising you wouldn't, signing a contract to that effect, then one day deciding you don't get paid enough (even though it's a rate you negotiated and agreed to) so reneging on your employment deal and telling everybody.

The employers reasons for keeping your involvement in the work a secret is irrelevant; it doesn't matter if they were hoping to profit off your work (which, let's face it, every employer does) or for any other reason. The fact is, if you've taken a job knowing full well what the conditions of employment are at the outset, and you've agreed to be bound by those conditions, breaking the terms of the contract because you've decided you want more make you a greedy twat.

It doesn't matter how much everybody else gets paid. You knew what you were getting into before you accepted the position.

 

[TC]

Those are easily replaceable. I was talking about things like the concept of an unknown tame racing driver.

Well, to give the guy credit, how many multi-multi-millionaire Formula 1 drivers were faster than him? Coming up with a concept is fine and all, but it takes people with special talents to make it happen, and they deserve credit too. Not just a pittance. You know what they say, if you're unhappy with your current job, do something about it.

Hmm that's a point TomCat - I wonder what is in the book? Any little secrets the TG team wouldn't want folk knowing about? Not that I'm going to read it of course, ahem.

I'd like to know too. Is it a full autobiography or just a TopGear book? Is his time as The Stig a major part of the book or just a passing reference?

It's not just a paycheck. He signed on with the fact that he would be totally anonymous. It was a condition of his employment, it was the whole idea. Your analogy is not correct.

It is more akin to you taking a job at a tiling place, being told that you are not, under any circumstances, allowed to tell anybody which pieces of work you created, you promising you wouldn't, signing a contract to that effect, then one day deciding you don't get paid enough (even though it's a rate you negotiated and agreed to) so reneging on your employment deal and telling everybody.

The employers reasons for keeping your involvement in the work a secret is irrelevant; it doesn't matter if they were hoping to profit off your work (which, let's face it, every employer does) or for any other reason. The fact is, if you've taken a job knowing full well what the conditions of employment are at the outset, and you've agreed to be bound by those conditions, breaking the terms of the contract because you've decided you want more make you a greedy twat.

It doesn't matter how much everybody else gets paid. You knew what you were getting into before you accepted the position.

We don't know the details. We don't know what he was told about being anonymous or how long he would be expected to keep up the charade. Maybe he wanted to be open about it, but he was told that his employment would be terminated if he did. If he wanted to reveal it, it would have to be when his contract ended and he no longer worked for the show. Maybe he didn't like those archaic terms and felt resentful? Maybe he didn't want to wait until the show was totally ruined and getting canceled when the bandwagon fans got bored and abandoned the show and no one could give a rat's ass about TopGear anymore?

Also, how do we know it was all about the money? Couldn't he have given Wilman and Jezza an ultimatum, if money was all he wanted? Demanded a raise? He knew he would get fired if he published the book, so why not give it a shot?

Nah, I think it all came down to him wanting some credit. REAL credit, not just another paycheck. A book containing the fact that he was the "actor/stuntman" from a TV show isn't going to sell a ton of books. But the clusterfuck of controversy that Jezza/Wilman/BBC and Co. have stirred up is probably going to make the book a bestseller. They only have themselves to blame.



And I'm going to make a prediction. If they make a big joke about this next series, if they make segments talking about the traitor Stig, running jokes about Ben Collins being a prick, etc, if they do any of that then I'll know it was just another ratings grab. If they care about the show, want to preserve the show, than they will not mention it at all. They will keep the white Stig and just stick another anonymous driver in there. If they do anything else, it's just proof that they don't really care and just want to profit off anything and everything they can.

 

[RaptorJesus]

Screw the Beeb. Get money, get paid.

They would have disposed of him and gotten some other racing washout if he had held out on a contract renegotiation for more money.

 

[Buktu]

Well, to give the guy credit, how many multi-multi-millionaire Formula 1 drivers were faster than him? Coming up with a concept is fine and all, but it takes people with special talents to make it happen, and they deserve credit too. Not just a pittance. You know what they say, if you're unhappy with your current job, do something about it.


I'd like to know too. Is it a full autobiography or just a TopGear book? Is his time as The Stig a major part of the book or just a passing reference?


We don't know the details. We don't know what he was told about being anonymous or how long he would be expected to keep up the charade. Maybe he wanted to be open about it, but he was told that his employment would be terminated if he did. If he wanted to reveal it, it would have to be when his contract ended and he no longer worked for the show. Maybe he didn't like those archaic terms and felt resentful? Maybe he didn't want to wait until the show was totally ruined and getting canceled when the bandwagon fans got bored and abandoned the show and no one could give a rat's ass about TopGear anymore?

Also, how do we know it was all about the money? Couldn't he have given Wilman and Jezza an ultimatum, if money was all he wanted? Demanded a raise? He knew he would get fired if he published the book, so why not give it a shot?

Nah, I think it all came down to him wanting some credit. REAL credit, not just another paycheck. A book containing the fact that he was the "actor/stuntman" from a TV show isn't going to sell a ton of books. But the clusterfuck of controversy that Jezza/Wilman/BBC and Co. have stirred up is probably going to make the book a bestseller. They only have themselves to blame.



And I'm going to make a prediction. If they make a big joke about this next series, if they make segments talking about the traitor Stig, running jokes about Ben Collins being a prick, etc, if they do any of that then I'll know it was just another ratings grab. If they care about the show, want to preserve the show, than they will not mention it at all. They will keep the white Stig and just stick another anonymous driver in there. If they do anything else, it's just proof that they don't really care and just want to profit off anything and everything they can.

As stated, he knew the conditions going in. It seems pretty obvious from Wilmans blog at least, that the idea had always been to have en anonymous racing driver, and they made him sign an NDA going in. He knew what he was going in to, he knew what he could and could not do. Suddenly wanting more, be it money or "credit", that's just being greedy.

He decided to make money off of something that is essentially not his creation, in a way that put his friends and co-workers in a difficult situation. I can't have sympathy for that.

 

[TC]

As stated, he knew the conditions going in. It seems pretty obvious from Wilmans blog at least, that the idea had always been to have en anonymous racing driver, and they made him sign an NDA going in. He knew what he was going in to, he knew what he could and could not do. Suddenly wanting more, be it money or "credit", that's just being greedy.

As others have said, NDA's are basically illegal anyways, as they tend to trample all over certain Rights.

He decided to make money off of something that is essentially not his creation, in a way that put his friends and co-workers in a difficult situation. I can't have sympathy for that.

What "difficult situation"? That's the part that baffles me. All this "TopGear is hurt, but not out" nonsense. The Stig was always an anonymous character, so it's not a big deal to replace him without effecting anything. Not only do the BBC and Wilman have the power to minimize the "damage", they can totally eliminate it. They could make it seem like nothing ever happened, and unless you've been paying attention to the news, you'll be none the wiser. It's not much different than replacing a cameraman, or a soundtech. I'm sure there are plenty of professional racing drivers that would love the job.

 

[BerserkerCatSplat]

He decided to make money off of something that is essentially not his creation, in a way that put his friends and co-workers in a difficult situation. I can't have sympathy for that.

A difficult situation? Really? No, let me give you a hypothetical situation. You're the producer of a popular long-running television show, let's say it's sitcom. All of a sudden one of your actors (who plays a main, major character) decides that he's had enough of television and is going back to Broadway. So, what do you do? Do you adjust the plot of the entire series to write out a major character? Do you change actors for the role and hope your audience can suspend disbelief enough that they'll accept a character suddenly having a new face? You see, that's a difficult situation.

Let's look at another (clearly hypothetical) situation. You're the producer of a different popular long-running television show, but one of your characters is a humanoid robot with no voice, played by a man in a metal robot-suit. You can't see the actors' face or body nor hear his voice, but he provides the motions for the robot. Suddenly, the actor decides that his future lies in goat herding rather than show business! What, as the producer, do you do? You put a different person in the suit. Not difficult.

 

[Amie8]

As others have said, NDA's are basically illegal anyways, as they tend to trample all over certain Rights.

NDAs are not illegal

 

[Ice_warmer]

the stig seemed to be revealed a while back (january 2009)