Homeowner Munir Hussain jailed for attacking burglars who tied up family

BlaRo

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He gave him a brain injury with a cricket bat? That's not grievous bodily harm, that's called kicking ass and taking names. If anyone threatened my friends/family the way they did, I would do anything I could with whatever came to hand, consequences be damned.

418px-Straw_dogs_movie_poster.jpg


And I agree with you wholeheartedly. In fact, I find it hard to believe that any rational man can sit in front of his keyboard and visualize his loved ones tied up and threatened without thinking of destroying such a vicious criminal.
 

salle

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To all you US Americans: you do realize your crime rate is about twice that of the UK even when you do have a more draconian approach to the whole issue. Although granted, the amount of burglaries are half of the UK's rate. But for pretty much all else the US is clearly in the lead, especially for the violent crimes. So it does seem violence just breeds more violence rather than less.
 

jetsetter

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That pretty much demonstrates the uselessness of the UK justice system. In the US, at a minimum, he would still be in jail. Except in the hippie liberal feel-good stronghold of California, of course. Which, strangely enough, is another place where this sort of idiocy happens.

And even California has:

California (California Penal Code ? 198.5 sets forth that unlawful, forcible entry into one's residence by someone not a member of the household creates the presumption that the resident held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury should he or she use deadly force against the intruder. This would make the homicide justifiable under CPC ? 197. CALCRIM 506 gives the instruction, "A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger ... has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating." However, it also states that "[People v. Ceballos] specifically held that burglaries which 'do not reasonably create a fear of great bodily harm' are not sufficient 'cause for exaction of human life.'?)
 

LeVeL

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To all you US Americans: you do realize your crime rate is about twice that of the UK even when you do have a more draconian approach to the whole issue. Although granted, the amount of burglaries are half of the UK's rate. But for pretty much all else the US is clearly in the lead, especially for the violent crimes. So it does seem violence just breeds more violence rather than less.

There are two houses next to each other: you know that in the first house everyone is unarmed; you know that in the second house the occupants might very easily be armed. Which are you going to break into?

And besides:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkWgp2abM2w[/YOUTUBE]
 

salle

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you break into the house where the people aren't in to start with....
 

Spectre

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To all you US Americans: you do realize your crime rate is about twice that of the UK even when you do have a more draconian approach to the whole issue. Although granted, the amount of burglaries are half of the UK's rate. But for pretty much all else the US is clearly in the lead, especially for the violent crimes. So it does seem violence just breeds more violence rather than less.

Actually, it's the other way around. The US' stats are unduly biased by liberal 'murder capitals' like New York, Boston, Detroit and the like where firearms ownership and the right to self defense is severely curtailed. In places where restrictions have been removed, violent crime (when not spun by various agencies) like murder is down. The most murderous city in the US is the capital, Washington DC, where until last year they had a total ban on handguns and a British approach to policing. Even now that the Supreme Court has told them that their ban is illegal, they are still trying to salvage some sort of ban out of it.

Let me throw some raw stats at you from my own state. Here are the murder numbers for Texas for the ten years preceding the legalization of concealed pistol carry:
1984 2,093
1985 2,132
1986 2,258
1987 1,959
1988 2,022
1989 2,029
1990 2,389
1991 2,652
1992 2,239
1993 2,147
1994 2,022


Now the ten years after restricted carry was implemented.

1996 1,477
1997 1,327
1998 1,346
1999 1,217
2000 1,238
2001 1,332
2002 1,302
2003 1,422
2004 1,364
2005 1,407
2006 1,384

Immediate reduction in murders by approximately 1/3rd. Note that in almost all cases after concealed carry became legal, Texas population increased year over year while murders stayed at about the same post-law lower level. Also, this data set is with restricted and licensed carry, with only those who are cleaner than the actual police being allowed to carry.

The point is that most places in the US are not being violent enough in their reaction to crimes.

you break into the house where the people aren't in to start with....


Which clearly does not apply in this case as they broke into this guy's house with the clear and stated intent of killing him and his entire fucking family.
 
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wooflepoof

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To all you US Americans: you do realize your crime rate is about twice that of the UK even when you do have a more draconian approach to the whole issue. Although granted, the amount of burglaries are half of the UK's rate. But for pretty much all else the US is clearly in the lead, especially for the violent crimes. So it does seem violence just breeds more violence rather than less.

correlation != causation

pretty sure there are seeeeveral other factors that play into that such as gang violence, sharing a border with some of the largest drug producing countries on the planet, having a huge demand for said drugs, our culture of consumption, the "r" word that I've been saying too much of lately, the list goes on.
 

salle

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No the US prosecution rate per capita was twice that of the UK (4.8% against 2.3%)

Drugs aren't the causation of the problem, it's a symptom and any good doctor know you can't just treat a symptom you have to treat the underlying cause.
 

Spectre

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No the US prosecution rate per capita was twice that of the UK (4.8% against 2.3%)

Drugs aren't the causation of the problem, it's a symptom and any good doctor know you can't just treat a symptom you have to treat the underlying cause.

Ah, the prosecution rate. I noticed you neglected to mention the many cases in the UK where they found excuses to not prosecute the perps - between bogus mental health claims and 'I was mistreated as a child' BS, they're hard pressed to show many prosecutions at all.

Unless you defend yourself from a criminal, or maybe commit a crime against Gaia, in which case you're going to jail for decades!
 

godlikepagan

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Yes he should, he went far beyond what is reasonable self defence.

Prove it.

The article clearly states that the robbers had knives. If you bring an armed person who just committed a crime down to the ground, are they just going to sit there and let you hover over them until the police come? I find that highly unlikely. Plus the guys just freaking threatened him and his family. Can you honestly say you would not do anything if you were in that situation?
 

salle

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Ah, the prosecution rate. I noticed you neglected to mention the many cases in the UK where they found excuses to not prosecute the perps - between bogus mental health claims and 'I was mistreated as a child' BS, they're hard pressed to show many prosecutions at all.

I'm pretty sure they're still prosecuted as that's the way to determine if they're responsible or not for their actions if they are thought to be crazy. Or it would be a very weird practice indeed.
 

Spectre

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I'm pretty sure they're still prosecuted as that's the way to determine if they're responsible or not for their actions if they are thought to be crazy. Or it would be a very weird practice indeed.

"Salem was the only intruder caught after the incident on September 3, 2008, but his injuries meant he was not fit to plead after being charged with false imprisonment."

In other words, no prosecution for this scumbag. I also wouldn't be surprised to find out that the brain damage wasn't real or as severe as it was presented to the court, which is a common dodge.

And even where they are prosecuted and convicted, they're out in (relatively) ridiculously short times!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6509535/Killer-re-enacts-murder-attack-22-years-on.html

Killer re-enacts murder attack 22 years on
A convicted killer released on parole subjected a woman to a "petrifying and chilling" rape attack in an attempt to re-enact elements of the murder he committed 22 years ago, a court was told.


By Richard Savill
Published: 5:17PM GMT 05 Nov 2009

Mark Shirley imprisoned his victim in her own home, and raped and sexually assaulting her for three and a half hours, Bristol Crown Court heard.

The 39-year-old man allegedly sexually assaulted the mother-of-five with a knife, it was alleged.

The jury heard that Mr Shirley was convicted of the murder of 67-year-old Mary Wainwright when he was 16. Mrs Wainwright's disfigured body was found face down and naked in her flat in Cardiff in 1987.

The court heard there were ritualistic elements to her murder. A two pence coin and an ornamental knife were placed on her body.

Mr Shirley was given a life sentence but was released after 16 years on parole in 2003. He was later recalled to prison for a drink-driving offence but was released again in August last year.

What. The. FUCK! was he doing out of prison?!!?!??!?

More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...sed-from-prison-to-commit-serious-crimes.html

Scores of killers who were given life terms released from prison to commit serious crimes
Scores of killers released from life sentences have gone on to commit serious crimes over the past decade, including murder and rape, the Government has admitted.


By Christopher Hope, Whitehall Editor
Published: 12:01AM GMT 05 Mar 2009

Mandatory life sentences are only given to offenders convicted of murder. However hundreds of convicted killers have been released over the past decade.

Ministry of Justice figures show that, since 1997, 65 prisoners who were released after serving a mandatory life sentences were recalled and found guilty of a further offence.

The offences include two murders, a suspected murder, one attempted murder, three rapes and two instances of grievous bodily harm.

Other offences committed by prisoners released on life licence include burglary, robbery, drugs and firearms offences, threats to kill, indecent assault and violence against the person.

In one instance, Glyn Dix received a life sentence in the 1970s for shooting dead Pia Overbury. He was in prison at least as late as 1999 when he met his wife.

After his release he murdered her in a row over what to watch on television and cut her body into 16 pieces with a hacksaw and scissors.

In another case, Stephen Ayre, 45, was convicted of raping a 10 month-old boy in 2006 after being given parole on a life sentence for the murder of a woman in West Yorkshire in 1984.

Both criminals were sent back to prison for life on an indeterminate sentence.

Edward Garnier, shadow justice minister, said: "Life-sentenced prisoners should not be released where there is a dangerous of further serious offending, and those who are judged suitable for release should be subject to the utmost supervision for the rest of their lives."

Last year it emerged that more than 300 murderers, rapists and other serious offenders who had been handed life sentences were already back on the streets.

A total of 304 criminals jailed since January 1997 served fewer than 10 years despite being handed the maximum term, the Ministry of Justice admitted yesterday.

In most cases, the courts would have set a minimum tariff of fewer than 10 years for the sentence. The Parole Board would subsequently have agreed to release them.

Again - WHAT. THE. FUCK?!?!?!! are these people doing back out on the street?

So, we on the table in front of us, we have a government where a life sentence really means "until we get bored and decide to let you out", where self-defense is pretty much illegal, and the police will not protect citizens against marauding felons.

No wonder Hussain had to take care of business himself.
 
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salle

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^ so if you've got the best laws and penile system and sentencing times why is it that you've have one of the highest crime rates in the world? What leads people to do criminal acts?
 

Crazyjeeper

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This is rediculous. If somebody enters my home and harms my family, all bets are off. The intruder, in forcing their way onto my propery has hereby forefeited their right to life by threatening to take away mine or that of my loved ones. I see no problem with killing someone who is attempting to kill me. I probably wouldn't have stopped beating that invader until he stopped breathing, and that is only because I'm not allowed to keep firearms on a college campus.
 

ViperVX

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FFS just put a Confederate flag on the side of your house. Every1 will think you're armed.
 

Spectre

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^ so if you've got the best laws and penile system and sentencing times why is it that you've have one of the highest crime rates in the world? What leads people to do criminal acts?

Historically, Texas has one of the better crime rates in the US, but we just absorbed a whole bunch of evacuated criminals from Louisiana.

That said, look at the Washington DC crime rates. They have Brit/Euro style policing, a gun ban until recently... and they had more crime than anywhere else in the US. We also have similar problems in certain other major cities, almost all of which are run along more or less similar lines.

There are also cultural causes of crime, plus much crime is committed by illegal aliens. That is an entire discussion in and of itself. If you eliminated weapons entirely, we would still kill each other with bare hands more than anywhere else in the world. :p

The only thing that can be done here is for the law abiding to arm themselves and for the government's prison sentences to be appropriately draconian so as to discourage repeat offenses.
 
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Peter3hg

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Good decision regarding the homeowner. He was not acting in self defence or to protect his property. There is no justification for how far he took it.
Do the people defending him believe that you should be allowed to do anything to a man who has broken into your property but is no longer a threat to you? It certainly sounds like it and that is a very scary attitude to have.
I'm confident that any civilised country (including the US) would reach a similar conclusion in this case. I would be amazed if anyone could find a recent similar case where there was no charges.
 

Spectre

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Good decision regarding the homeowner. He was not acting in self defence or to protect his property. There is no justification for how far he took it.
Do the people defending him believe that you should be allowed to do anything to a man who has broken into your property but is no longer a threat to you? It certainly sounds like it and that is a very scary attitude to have.
I'm confident that any civilised country (including the US) would reach a similar conclusion in this case. I would be amazed if anyone could find a recent similar case where there was no charges.

Um - no longer a threat? He said that he was going to kill Hussain's family for no good reason. Until he's dead or in prison for life (and I mean life, not 20 minutes and then parole), he's a threat.

There was a recent case here in Texas where a couple were accosted on the street by a would-be mugger. He took their money and wallets, then threatened to come back later and kill the man after raping and killing the woman. The man then chased the fleeing felon, cornered him in an alley and more or less dumped a mag into him.

The grand jury refused to indict. Not once, but twice. Why? Because once he'd gotten the wallets, he had their addresses and other personal information. He knew where they lived and could have come back to carry out his threat.
 
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