So let's all jump in the Way-Back-Machine to a date almost at random: January 12, 2007. The place, Honda of El Cerrito.
I have dropped off my 2004 Honda Civic - my first brand new car - because the speedometer is sticking and not returning to zero when stopped (maybe this is why boy-ricers think their Civics can do 186 mph?). The car in under warranty, and the dealer says it's not a problem to get fixed.
I pick the car up and my digital odometer reads "000000." I ask about it, and the dealer says that there's no way for them to set the odometer to read the accurate mileage, he then shows me a sticker on the door that shows the car's mileage at the time of repair, and the date. He points out this is an "official sticker" and assures me that this is how such repairs are handled.
The dealer has been great to me so I have no reason to distrust them and I accept this. "It makes sense" I think to myself, "odometers are specifically designed to prevent tampering, right? I mean, no one wants a car with the odometer rolled back."
I go on my merry way, mentally computing the mileage for services and oil changes.
Fast forward to present day. I try to trade in my trusty Civic on an '04 Ford Ranger, a sweet truck with mud tires, nice rims, red paint, spray-on bedliner, 4.0 L V6, and only 41K on the clock. Just what I need to move motorcycles and most my crap cross-country. We sit down to talk deal, they don't want much for the truck, less than wholesale actually; this could be my lucky day!
The guy goes to take a spin in my car to make sure it's all working. He comes back in, "Wow, Dave, that's a clean car! And only 33,000 miles!"
"Actually, Trevor, the car has more like 68,000 miles on it." I go on to explain the repair job and watch as his face starts to sink.
"I need to make a call, Dave. Hang on."
I wait.
"Dave, do you have the original work order for that?"
"Not with me, but the car always goes to Honda for repairs and that was under warranty, so it's in their system."
"I think I'm going to need to see that."
"No problem, I'll just call the dealer and have them fax it over."
I call, they fax.
I wait, Trevor makes more calls. He's looking pretty stressed out; that's not good.
"Dave, I've got to talk to the owner about that odometer thing. Hang on."
Ok, really not a good sign.
I wait.
Trevor approaches with the dreaded computer print out of costs.
"Dave, I'm sorry, but we can't do a straight-up trade, or even close. That odometer scares the crap out of me and I'll have to whole-sale your trade-in." He points to the page.... $5,000.
Book on my car is $8,000, and the market in the Bay Area is actually more like $9,000-$10,000 because everyone is bailing on their SUVs and guzzling luxury cars for small commuters.
Trevor looks like a beaten man. He's young and working at a small Ford dealer in a small town over an hour from the Bay Area, they get Rangers in all the time but a Civic would have people coming out of the woodwork. He wanted my car as much as I wanted his.
"Sorry, Trevor, I can't do those numbers. I'll keep trying to sell it private-party and hopefully that truck is still here. Thanks for trying."
We shake hands, both disappointed in the outcome. I actually feel bad for the baby-faced Trevor.
As I start the drive home, I start thinking. Hey, this isn't right! This speedometer problem was a manufacturer's defect and now I'm stuck with a car I can't sell! That wasn't part of the deal, I got a Honda specifically because they hold their value; fuck, it was part of the sales pitch when I said I was considering the Focus.
I post part of my experience on here and Spectre informs me that it is possible to set a digital odometer to be accurate in these cases. (I owe you a beer for that one, Spectre.) I jump on Google and call an odometer shop in LA; who referrs me to a shop in Washington who actually do these repairs.
"Oh yeah!" says Steve at Electronic Speedometer Service, "We do that all day up here!"
"But can you do it on a stock '04 Civic"
"Sure can, we see those all the time."
"Thanks, Steve, have a good day."
I'm feeling a bit better, there might be a chance to get the odometer fixed after all. I call the dealer and talk to Danny. Danny says I need to call Honda North America and provides me a number.
After wading through the telephone queue system, I finally get a person. Honestly, I don't recall her name, but let's call her Thunder-C*nt (TC). I explain to TC my problem, and that I don't think it's right for a Honda, with a Honda factory defect, fixed under Honda warranty by a Honda dealer to be halved in value because of that repair.
TC: "So what is it you want Honda North America to do?"
Me: "I want you to make it right. I talked to Steve at Electronic Speedomter Service in Washington and he said they could set the odometer to show the car's true mileage."
TC says that Honda won't do that because the repair was completed.
Me: "No, it wasn't completed, the odometer doesn't read the true mileage and I can't sell or trade this car, I'm stuck with it and I need to buy a truck so I can move. I didn't know it was possible to set the odometer to read correctly at the time of the repair because of what your dealership said. Now I know that it's possible and I would like it fixed properly. You wouldn't take advantage of someone who wasn't a mechanic, would you? Even the Honda dealer where the service was performed says that the car isn't worth what it would be if the odometer was accurate! Your own dealer won't give me a fair price for the car because of service they did which followed Honda North America guidelines. "
TC: "What guidelines?"
Me: "Honda of El Cerrito says that putting a sticker on the door frame is what Honda North America says is the way to fix this problem."
TC: "Yes, it is."
Me: "So that is your policy?"
TC: "What policy?"
Me: "Is it, or is it not Honda North America's protocol/policy/standard of service/recommendation to 'fix' this problem with a sticker?"
TC: "Yes, it is."
Me: "Ok, that's my problem. Your policy has nearly halved the value of my car, a car I bought because it holds it's value."
TC: "I'm sorry sir-"
Me: "Prove it, fix the problem. All I'm asking is that the repair that was done be finished. I didn't know at the time that digital odometers could be accurately set. Now I do and I want the repair finished and the car restored to the conditioin it would be in if the part had not failed. You don't leave other jobs unfinished, do you? If I take my car in for a repair under warranty and you don't put the battery back in, or don't set the timing properly then the job isn't done."
TC: "The job was done, the speedometer was replaced."
Me: "Yes, and you caused another, bigger problem with your 'repair!'"
TC: "I'm sorry sir, but the repair was completed."
Me: "So you're going to leave me to twist, is that is? I bought a Honda because of the reputation for being reliable cars that hold their value. Honda has destroyed my ability to resell this car for a fair price and cost me thousands of dollars plus other expenses for my upcomming move, and made my life difficult because I can't get a 4x4 for the snow. I'm stuck with this car until it's so old that it's only worth a thousand dollars and the odometer doesn't matter. This thing is a weight around my neck. I had better luck with Chrysler! I had a Jeep I bought used that developed paint problems, at least Chrysler split the cost of stripping and repainting the car with me, Honda won't even do that. Chrysler, a company that is practically broke did a better job of taking care of me than you are."
TC: "I'm sorry, sir, but we won't pay for a new cluster."
Me: "It doesn't need a new cluster, it needs for the old one to be calibrated. That's all I'm asking, will Honda North America stand by their product and their reputation and make this right?"
TC: ".... sir, we fixed the problem you reported-"
Me: "And caused me a bigger one in the process. It's simple, stand by your product and your reputation and make this right or leave me to twist. It's a simple question: Will you make this right? Yes or no."
At this point Thunder-C*nt tries to change the subject to say that Honda stands by it's product and yada yada yada.
Me: "That's great. Can Honda North America fix this problem or not."
TC: "No."
Me: "Ok, that's all I needed to know. I'm just going to make sure that everyone I know is aware of this converstation so they can choose to do business with you or not knowing that Honda North America is in the business of cutting corners on repairs at the expense of their customers. Before this converstation I was a fan of Honda. This was my first new car, and I planned to buy Honda in the future. I even own a Honda motorcycle. Honda North America has, by leaving me to twist in the wind with an unsellable car, lost my business. I will never buy another car bearing the Honda badge. For the life of this toxic car, it will never see the inside of another Honda dealership. I just hope that when I tell others of my experience they can avoid financial loss and heart-burn by doing business with another company."
So there it is gents. As promised, the whole story, from start to finish. Judge for yourselves. I should also note that I have an extended warranty on the car, purchased at Honda of El Cerrito, and the car is still covered under that policy.
I have dropped off my 2004 Honda Civic - my first brand new car - because the speedometer is sticking and not returning to zero when stopped (maybe this is why boy-ricers think their Civics can do 186 mph?). The car in under warranty, and the dealer says it's not a problem to get fixed.
I pick the car up and my digital odometer reads "000000." I ask about it, and the dealer says that there's no way for them to set the odometer to read the accurate mileage, he then shows me a sticker on the door that shows the car's mileage at the time of repair, and the date. He points out this is an "official sticker" and assures me that this is how such repairs are handled.
The dealer has been great to me so I have no reason to distrust them and I accept this. "It makes sense" I think to myself, "odometers are specifically designed to prevent tampering, right? I mean, no one wants a car with the odometer rolled back."
I go on my merry way, mentally computing the mileage for services and oil changes.
Fast forward to present day. I try to trade in my trusty Civic on an '04 Ford Ranger, a sweet truck with mud tires, nice rims, red paint, spray-on bedliner, 4.0 L V6, and only 41K on the clock. Just what I need to move motorcycles and most my crap cross-country. We sit down to talk deal, they don't want much for the truck, less than wholesale actually; this could be my lucky day!
The guy goes to take a spin in my car to make sure it's all working. He comes back in, "Wow, Dave, that's a clean car! And only 33,000 miles!"
"Actually, Trevor, the car has more like 68,000 miles on it." I go on to explain the repair job and watch as his face starts to sink.
"I need to make a call, Dave. Hang on."
I wait.
"Dave, do you have the original work order for that?"
"Not with me, but the car always goes to Honda for repairs and that was under warranty, so it's in their system."
"I think I'm going to need to see that."
"No problem, I'll just call the dealer and have them fax it over."
I call, they fax.
I wait, Trevor makes more calls. He's looking pretty stressed out; that's not good.
"Dave, I've got to talk to the owner about that odometer thing. Hang on."
Ok, really not a good sign.
I wait.
Trevor approaches with the dreaded computer print out of costs.
"Dave, I'm sorry, but we can't do a straight-up trade, or even close. That odometer scares the crap out of me and I'll have to whole-sale your trade-in." He points to the page.... $5,000.
Book on my car is $8,000, and the market in the Bay Area is actually more like $9,000-$10,000 because everyone is bailing on their SUVs and guzzling luxury cars for small commuters.
Trevor looks like a beaten man. He's young and working at a small Ford dealer in a small town over an hour from the Bay Area, they get Rangers in all the time but a Civic would have people coming out of the woodwork. He wanted my car as much as I wanted his.
"Sorry, Trevor, I can't do those numbers. I'll keep trying to sell it private-party and hopefully that truck is still here. Thanks for trying."
We shake hands, both disappointed in the outcome. I actually feel bad for the baby-faced Trevor.
As I start the drive home, I start thinking. Hey, this isn't right! This speedometer problem was a manufacturer's defect and now I'm stuck with a car I can't sell! That wasn't part of the deal, I got a Honda specifically because they hold their value; fuck, it was part of the sales pitch when I said I was considering the Focus.
I post part of my experience on here and Spectre informs me that it is possible to set a digital odometer to be accurate in these cases. (I owe you a beer for that one, Spectre.) I jump on Google and call an odometer shop in LA; who referrs me to a shop in Washington who actually do these repairs.
"Oh yeah!" says Steve at Electronic Speedometer Service, "We do that all day up here!"
"But can you do it on a stock '04 Civic"
"Sure can, we see those all the time."
"Thanks, Steve, have a good day."
I'm feeling a bit better, there might be a chance to get the odometer fixed after all. I call the dealer and talk to Danny. Danny says I need to call Honda North America and provides me a number.
After wading through the telephone queue system, I finally get a person. Honestly, I don't recall her name, but let's call her Thunder-C*nt (TC). I explain to TC my problem, and that I don't think it's right for a Honda, with a Honda factory defect, fixed under Honda warranty by a Honda dealer to be halved in value because of that repair.
TC: "So what is it you want Honda North America to do?"
Me: "I want you to make it right. I talked to Steve at Electronic Speedomter Service in Washington and he said they could set the odometer to show the car's true mileage."
TC says that Honda won't do that because the repair was completed.
Me: "No, it wasn't completed, the odometer doesn't read the true mileage and I can't sell or trade this car, I'm stuck with it and I need to buy a truck so I can move. I didn't know it was possible to set the odometer to read correctly at the time of the repair because of what your dealership said. Now I know that it's possible and I would like it fixed properly. You wouldn't take advantage of someone who wasn't a mechanic, would you? Even the Honda dealer where the service was performed says that the car isn't worth what it would be if the odometer was accurate! Your own dealer won't give me a fair price for the car because of service they did which followed Honda North America guidelines. "
TC: "What guidelines?"
Me: "Honda of El Cerrito says that putting a sticker on the door frame is what Honda North America says is the way to fix this problem."
TC: "Yes, it is."
Me: "So that is your policy?"
TC: "What policy?"
Me: "Is it, or is it not Honda North America's protocol/policy/standard of service/recommendation to 'fix' this problem with a sticker?"
TC: "Yes, it is."
Me: "Ok, that's my problem. Your policy has nearly halved the value of my car, a car I bought because it holds it's value."
TC: "I'm sorry sir-"
Me: "Prove it, fix the problem. All I'm asking is that the repair that was done be finished. I didn't know at the time that digital odometers could be accurately set. Now I do and I want the repair finished and the car restored to the conditioin it would be in if the part had not failed. You don't leave other jobs unfinished, do you? If I take my car in for a repair under warranty and you don't put the battery back in, or don't set the timing properly then the job isn't done."
TC: "The job was done, the speedometer was replaced."
Me: "Yes, and you caused another, bigger problem with your 'repair!'"
TC: "I'm sorry sir, but the repair was completed."
Me: "So you're going to leave me to twist, is that is? I bought a Honda because of the reputation for being reliable cars that hold their value. Honda has destroyed my ability to resell this car for a fair price and cost me thousands of dollars plus other expenses for my upcomming move, and made my life difficult because I can't get a 4x4 for the snow. I'm stuck with this car until it's so old that it's only worth a thousand dollars and the odometer doesn't matter. This thing is a weight around my neck. I had better luck with Chrysler! I had a Jeep I bought used that developed paint problems, at least Chrysler split the cost of stripping and repainting the car with me, Honda won't even do that. Chrysler, a company that is practically broke did a better job of taking care of me than you are."
TC: "I'm sorry, sir, but we won't pay for a new cluster."
Me: "It doesn't need a new cluster, it needs for the old one to be calibrated. That's all I'm asking, will Honda North America stand by their product and their reputation and make this right?"
TC: ".... sir, we fixed the problem you reported-"
Me: "And caused me a bigger one in the process. It's simple, stand by your product and your reputation and make this right or leave me to twist. It's a simple question: Will you make this right? Yes or no."
At this point Thunder-C*nt tries to change the subject to say that Honda stands by it's product and yada yada yada.
Me: "That's great. Can Honda North America fix this problem or not."
TC: "No."
Me: "Ok, that's all I needed to know. I'm just going to make sure that everyone I know is aware of this converstation so they can choose to do business with you or not knowing that Honda North America is in the business of cutting corners on repairs at the expense of their customers. Before this converstation I was a fan of Honda. This was my first new car, and I planned to buy Honda in the future. I even own a Honda motorcycle. Honda North America has, by leaving me to twist in the wind with an unsellable car, lost my business. I will never buy another car bearing the Honda badge. For the life of this toxic car, it will never see the inside of another Honda dealership. I just hope that when I tell others of my experience they can avoid financial loss and heart-burn by doing business with another company."
So there it is gents. As promised, the whole story, from start to finish. Judge for yourselves. I should also note that I have an extended warranty on the car, purchased at Honda of El Cerrito, and the car is still covered under that policy.
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