How many kids do you want?

[93Flareside]

How is taking care of a kid fun? You do it because you have to and society will damn you if you don't.

 

[skidd]

Bullshit. Why is it when people don't understand something, they naturally assume societal pressures or some other crap? I understand why many of you don't want kids, and I'll respect those reasons, but to say something like "You do it because you have to" is dumb. Yes, raising kids is exhausting, yes it'll run you into financial ruin, but you know what? Those 45 mins of playing catch with my nephew in my brother's backyard? One of the best goddamn feelings ever. I want that for myself, spending time with my own kid, watching them grow, and not become as cynical as some of you nuts.

 

[Clockwerk]

Bullshit. Why is it when people don't understand something, they naturally assume societal pressures or some other crap? I understand why many of you don't want kids, and I'll respect those reasons, but to say something like "You do it because you have to" is dumb. Yes, raising kids is exhausting, yes it'll run you into financial ruin, but you know what? Those 45 mins of playing catch with my nephew in my brother's backyard? One of the best goddamn feelings ever. I want that for myself, spending time with my own kid, watching them grow, and not become as cynical as some of you nuts.

Agree 100%. However, on the societal pressure part....I feel it is my duty as an intelligent individual to further the human race. I see people everywhere of below average intelligence who have multiple children and I feel it my civic duty to counteract that force.

 

[Emarline]

Bullshit. Why is it when people don't understand something, they naturally assume societal pressures or some other crap? I understand why many of you don't want kids, and I'll respect those reasons, but to say something like "You do it because you have to" is dumb. Yes, raising kids is exhausting, yes it'll run you into financial ruin, but you know what? Those 45 mins of playing catch with my nephew in my brother's backyard? One of the best goddamn feelings ever. I want that for myself, spending time with my own kid, watching them grow, and not become as cynical as some of you nuts.

This. I love playing with my younger cousins, love seeing them learning new things and watching them grow. There's that and having a kid is a huge act of love between two people. It says that you want there to be someone in the world that's a part of you and a part of them, to share flesh and blood, to share at least the next 18 years of your lives raising the kid.

 

[equiraptor]

However, on the societal pressure part...

I get a lot of crap from a lot of people about not wanting kids. I'm finally getting old enough for people to actually listen when I say I don't want kids, instead of dismissing it as the silly notions of a child. It's frustrating to have my wants, my desires, and my knowledge of myself dismissed by someone who barely knows me.

 

[teletubby-warrior]

This thread is sad.

 

[NecroJoe]

Those 45 mins of playing catch with my nephew in my brother's backyard? One of the best goddamn feelings ever. I want that for myself, spending time with my own kid, watching them grow, and not become as cynical as some of you nuts.

This is why some of us just don't want children. I grew up babysitting my cousins every so often, I have a younger brother, and experienced all the joys a family can offer...and yet, I see a child and have zero feelings towards it, other than impatience, even if it's family. I mean, I wish it no ill will, but I would rather not be involved in any way.

Then again, I don't find baby animals cute, I don't want any pets, except maybe fish. So, while I will readily admit that I'm on the more "extreme" side of the not-wanting-kids graph, I know there are lots of us...and of those 80% that end up having kids, MWF, how many were on accident a they just decided to keep it, rather than actually wanting one? I have one aunt who had three sons. Her husband, my uncle, had a vasectomy. He was ready to file for divorce when she got pegnant with their 4th until the paternity test results came back that it was his. They didn't want any more kids, he even had surgery on his nether regions to avoid another one, and they still ended up with a kid. Well, a miscarriage, but still...

My brother is geting married in July, and I can assure you that their spawn (of which I'm sure there will be some coming shortly after the nuptuals) will be of no interest to me. I won't be anxiously awaiting pics on facebook, I couldn't care less what names they are considering or the sex of the baby. None of that world appeals to me in the least... I think I'd be a terrific father, and I think I would raise a great kid. Honestly. I'm not kidding. However, it appeals to me none.

It is funny, though, how many people just roll their eyes, even when I point blank say "No...I dislike children."

 

[THGL]

Got 3 already. Would I like to add to the brood? Maybe.

Right now I'd have to find gainful employment, then take the time to woo a prospective spouse, then enjoy some "just us" time (when my current trio isn't with me 50% of the time), then the time to have another. I'm currently in my 42nd year on this planet, and newborns are tiring to say the least, plus by the time said 4th child is old enough to play rough-n-tumble in the yard I'll be an old fart. By the time he/she graduates high school, I'll be looking like their grandparent!

 

[skidd]

This is why some of us just don't want children.

I get that, and that's a perfectly valid reason not to have children. But for that other guy to say the only reason to want kids is because of societal pressure is childish and naive.

 

[GRtak]

Look at the source.

 

[93Flareside]

I get that, and that's a perfectly valid reason not to have children. But for that other guy to say the only reason to want kids is because of societal pressure is childish and naive.

That's how it feels. My parents keep asking me "have you found a girl you like?" and "how many kids do you want?". I hate kids, my childhood wasn't the greatest or the worst but it still was enough to never put another being in the same situation. I don't care if it sounds negative, childish, or naive, I hate kids. They're loud, they break everything and, they cost you a lot of money. With kids you can't be as random. You have to plan everything; you can't just go out somewhere for the weekend to wherever last minute, you have to plan to make sure that little jimmy doesn't get hurt. I find children a nuisance. Yes, I even see myself as a nuisance to my folks, I can see it in their faces.

 

[That American Girl]

I already have two. They're now 18 and 21. I keep telling them that when boys hit 18 they want to go out into the world...but they're still both at home.

 

[TC]

I'd be interested to see what's happened in ten years time to all those who don't want kids.

My money's on 80% of them being parents by then.

If I even get to have sex in the next ten years, I'll be surprised.


But yeah, like a few others have said, I can't imagine bringing a life into a world when I'm not sure I'm glad to have been brought into it myself.

 

[Zesty]

I've been looking after other people's kids as part of work / training for three years now and it still hasn't influenced my thinking on whether I want to have kids or not. At the moment, I would definitely say no, given my financial situatios and associated lack of own dwelling. But, I keep changing my mind almost from day to day. My parents certainly aren't the type to hint about wanting grandchildren anyway, they really don't feel they have any right to pressure me into it or be disappointed in the fact that I'm 26 this year and not in a relationship. Some of my older, more traditional relatives however... I hardly ever see them anyway, so what they think is of no consequence to me. I also don't get jealous when people my age have children, not that any of my friends my age or even older than me have had any yet. I've got my own life, end of story.

 

[ashspet]

Mally should get started :lol:

 

[NoNeedForAChestWig]

Look at the source.

Hmm.

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" dir="ltr" lang="en" id="vbulletin_html">
<head>
...

What am I looking for, exactly?

 

[MWF]

Agree 100%. However, on the societal pressure part....I feel it is my duty as an intelligent individual to further the human race. I see people everywhere of below average intelligence who have multiple children and I feel it my civic duty to counteract that force.

Definitely.

This is why some of us just don't want children. I grew up babysitting my cousins every so often, I have a younger brother, and experienced all the joys a family can offer...and yet, I see a child and have zero feelings towards it, other than impatience, even if it's family. I mean, I wish it no ill will, but I would rather not be involved in any way.

Then again, I don't find baby animals cute, I don't want any pets, except maybe fish. So, while I will readily admit that I'm on the more "extreme" side of the not-wanting-kids graph, I know there are lots of us...and of those 80% that end up having kids, MWF, how many were on accident a they just decided to keep it, rather than actually wanting one? I have one aunt who had three sons. Her husband, my uncle, had a vasectomy. He was ready to file for divorce when she got pegnant with their 4th until the paternity test results came back that it was his. They didn't want any more kids, he even had surgery on his nether regions to avoid another one, and they still ended up with a kid. Well, a miscarriage, but still...

My brother is geting married in July, and I can assure you that their spawn (of which I'm sure there will be some coming shortly after the nuptuals) will be of no interest to me. I won't be anxiously awaiting pics on facebook, I couldn't care less what names they are considering or the sex of the baby. None of that world appeals to me in the least... I think I'd be a terrific father, and I think I would raise a great kid. Honestly. I'm not kidding. However, it appeals to me none.

It is funny, though, how many people just roll their eyes, even when I point blank say "No...I dislike children."

Te real shame is that so many people, several examples here, who are intelligent, have many other good qualities and would make excellent, nurturing parents are the ones choosing not to breed.

Meanwhile the numbskulls are still at it like rabbits and the litigious, health & safety culture in which we live that is slowly but surely kiddy-proofing the world means the stoopid is proliferating at an alarming rate.

We aren't heading for the stars as a species. By the time the oil runs out there will be nobody left of sufficient nous to come up with a serious alternative, society will crumble, populations will starve and be decimated and by 10,000 AD we'll be back in caves again just in time for the next Ice Age.

 

[DanRoM]

What strikes me is that there are people here giving reasons for not wanting to have children. That's the wrong approach.

I am happy as a non-father, as seem to be the other non-parents here. I don't need a reason for not having a child, because that's the status quo. I would however need a very good reason for actually wanting my life to be changed somewhat drastically by having a child (or several).

 

[MadCat360]

Some false understanding of evolution in here.

First, "unintelligent couples = unintelligent babies."

Absolutely false. A huge number of things have been found to affect intelligence. The upper limit to intelligence may be set in the genes, but many things, like nutrition during development, affect how closely the body can represent the genes. A seemingly unintelligent person (as defined by popular acceptance of the word "intelligence," which, as Einstein pointed out in his famous quote about fish climbing trees, is only one measure of mental prowess) could have exceptional potential in their genes. Remember, the human genome is only 3% functional. The other 97% is a soup for random mutation to play with, along with some retroviruses and other stuff that doesn't affect us. And of that 3% that is used, many sets of building instructions (single genes) are redundant - the genome will run many different versions of a gene that builds a specific protein in, say, lactase. The most effective lactase (and protein) will be selected for. Lactase is crucial for baby development. It's what allows the baby to process mom's milk.

And even if the genes of both individuals in the couple do end up being simply bad (as is the case sometimes, disregarding genetic disorders like down syndrome), random mutation means that bad genes can become good. Not every generation will improve upon the species' problem solving and critical thinking skills, for instance. It goes up and down through the centuries but the trend is up, as is evidenced by the history of ever more complex tool making in our species.

Meanwhile the numbskulls are still at it like rabbits and the litigious, health & safety culture in which we live that is slowly but surely kiddy-proofing the world means the stoopid is proliferating at an alarming rate.

We aren't heading for the stars as a species. By the time the oil runs out there will be nobody left of sufficient nous to come up with a serious alternative, society will crumble, populations will starve and be decimated and by 10,000 AD we'll be back in caves again just in time for the next Ice Age.

It sounds like you're ignoring the environmental pressures that spurred us on to this point in the first place. Those pressures are still there, and they are pressing us harder than ever - that's how evolution works. Continual escalation. The technology that we are implementing in our society is bringing a whole new set of very fast-changing and dynamic pressures that favor mental skills hugely. You may liken it to inventing the jacket. The jacket may replace your fur, but now you have pressure to build good jackets. A more realistic scenario: human builds genetically optimized plant to resist a certain type of beetle. Beetle develops resistance to the change in the plant. Pressure is put on the human to use his brain to develop a counter. Cycle repeats. All 3 species get more adept.

Returning to the lactase I mentioned earlier. Up until a few (5+) thousand years ago, humans were mostly lactose intolerant the world over. 70% of Europe's population was intolerant. It wasn't until herders developed the techniques for making cheese that pressure was introduced to process lactose after childhood. Cheese is an ideal "gateway diary product" because it is much less potent than milk in terms of lactose content. The gene for making lactase back then was normally switched off during late childhood (various molecular machines that live in the cell nucleus react to outside stimuli and prevent the genes from being read).

Once cheese was introduced, though, lactase quickly stopped being turned off. This took about 2 to 3 thousand years from what I'm recalling. Now the numbers are reversed - only 30% of Europe is lactose intolerant these days.

Interestingly, Africans still have that same 70% intolerance rate. It's because they don't consume very many dairy products compared to the west.

It's an interesting way how our ideas shape our environment, and thus our environmental pressures. Just because we invent better bumpers on cars and better medicine for when people break themselves doing dumb stuff, doesn't mean those people are unpressured.

 

[gt1750]

Definitely.



Te real shame is that so many people, several examples here, who are intelligent, have many other good qualities and would make excellent, nurturing parents are the ones choosing not to breed.

Meanwhile the numbskulls are still at it like rabbits and the litigious, health & safety culture in which we live that is slowly but surely kiddy-proofing the world means the stoopid is proliferating at an alarming rate.

We aren't heading for the stars as a species. By the time the oil runs out there will be nobody left of sufficient nous to come up with a serious alternative, society will crumble, populations will starve and be decimated and by 10,000 AD we'll be back in caves again just in time for the next Ice Age.

Caves made of garbage might work