How much can you learn from video games?

[Posmo]

I have played driving games for a few years now, on and off. I've never had a steering wheel controller, so I usually play with a joystick or a pad, on the pc and ps2 respectively. Ofcourse the driving in the games involved drifting, racing and all sorts of stuff.

The thing is, that I took my parents Volvo 940 for a spin today for about 1 and a half hours, and when oversteering (Rwd and snow ) , even without all the DR etc. how to's, I knew exactly what to do, how to control the throttle and how much steering lock to put on. Basically, I had learned things that I didn't really know I could do before having to use them. Understandably I spent quite a bit of time going sideways after a few practice runs on a parking lot. I didn't go all out ofcourse, but I'd say it was fairly decent for a beginner.

So, my question is, how much can you learn just by playing a driving game, and could you learn to drive economically and safely by just swinging a plastic wheel around in your living room. (Let's face it, all we do in driving games is go flat out, so we won't learn to drive safely ) I mean, I think it would be excellent drivers education if you could, say, learn "the rules of the road" by playing a game. There are simulators, but they cost thousands and are bulky, what im talking about here is maybe a g25 and a 50? game.

 

[Ice_warmer]

yeah you could, but as i see it, you get loads more information when acutally driving so i see it as beeing a bit more difficult, but one must need practice, just not as much as a regular person.
plus i can't find the restart button when playing in the real world, so it's lots harder.

 

[LeVeL]

a really good game (ie simulator such as GT or Forza) can show you a good deal about car control and behaviour at the limit but it will never ever replace actual behind-the-wheel experience. until you are driving a real car at the limit, you won't know what it's like. you might "know" how to control oversteer, but first time it happens on the road unexpectedly, there is a very good chance that you will not react correctly simply out of instinct. that's why HPDE, autocross, etc are so great

 

[Jay]

You can learn the absolute basics, as how to correct oversteer for instance, but to truly master it you have to feel it with all of your senses.

 

[Ford Prefect]

The first issue with basic (very basic) car control is simply to know roughly what you?re supposed to do. Some theoretical knowledge of this can in fact be gained from playing games, trying to improve at them, and thus reading up on real world driving techniques. The simple fact that you?ve even heard of the concept of applying opposite lock when the back kicks out already helps quite a lot compared to the average driver. But that?s it. Really.

If you have the slightest illusion that you can control a car based on playing games, you will get hurt. Or in the best of all possible scenarios learn your lesson after a hefty bill from the shop. I love racing games, especially to get over the ring addiction through the winter. But if there?s one thing I definitely discovered, it?s that performance driving in real life will massively improve your skills in racing games, but not the other way round.

Racing games do train your reflexes to a certain extent, and they?re great for memorizing tracks with no danger at all. Even F1 drivers resort to the playstation, xbox, whatever to learn tracks that they?ve never driven on. But even the bestest of the superbest racing simulation isn?t going to teach you car control. You can however try to apply your theoretical knowledge from racing games to the real world if you happen to find a nice big empty parking lot with lots of ice, and that WILL teach you something.

 

[prizrak]

I find it harder to drive in games than I do in real life. Games require alot of driving with your head instead of your butt so to speak. One thing that games are good for is learning how to use your head to change your driving habbits.

 

[_HighVoltage_]

You can learn a lot, as long as you don't take everything seriously (especially the speed in the games).

What I'm trying to say is that - not everything is accurate even in the best simulators. There are things that you can't learn from games. For example - how scary it is when your car starts sliding and you are not doing it on purpose.
You said you did some snow driving, then you have a basic idea of what I'm talkign about.
When it's icy then you can really crap your pants - turn the wheel and the car just goes on forward, the brakes don't help a whole lot either. In games it's all done that if you give it more throttle you will correct your line. In real life, on ice, giving full throttle will only make matters worse.

There is also the problem of overcorrection. In most games I've played, when you start oversteering, you press the other button and the car eventually goes back in line. In real life, very often you get a sort of a pendulum effect. The more you try to correct your direction, the more you make matters worse.

Another thing that you will notice when driving on snow is how light the back of the car is (front engined cars of course).

 

[Posmo]

You can learn a lot, as long as you don't take everything seriously (especially the speed in the games).

What I'm trying to say is that - not everything is accurate even in the best simulators. There are things that you can't learn from games. For example - how scary it is when your car starts sliding and you are not doing it on purpose.
You said you did some snow driving, then you have a basic idea of what I'm talkign about.
When it's icy then you can really crap your pants - turn the wheel and the car just goes on forward, the brakes don't help a whole lot either. In games it's all done that if you give it more throttle you will correct your line. In real life, on ice, giving full throttle will only make matters worse.

There is also the problem of overcorrection. In most games I've played, when you start oversteering, you press the other button and the car eventually goes back in line. In real life, very often you get a sort of a pendulum effect. The more you try to correct your direction, the more you make matters worse.

Another thing that you will notice when driving on snow is how light the back of the car is (front engined cars of course).

I know what you mean about understeer, but that will most likely not be a problem if the slide is started at a reasonably slow speed, if the back won't come round, just back off and everything is fine. When I got the back out, I could give a bit of boot to make it smooth. I have experienced the pendulum effect, and I know what you mean, but I think it's the easiest part of the oversteer to correct, soggy suspension of the Volvo (or Vulva, which i currently refer to it as ) might have helped, kinetic energy of the pendulum swing(weird way to say that) is absorbed by the suspension, rather than making the car go the other way.

In general, Im not just talking about performance driving and oversteer here, do you think it could have helped you become a better driver (or becoming a safer driver quicker) if you had had sort of a simulated world (think GTA) in which the real rules apply. I certainly would gladly have taken an opportunity to learn the basics before taking licence tests, lessons, etc.

 

[Ford Prefect]

There are things that you can't learn from games. For example - how scary it is when your car starts sliding and you are not doing it on purpose.

That, and pretty much anything that involves the stupid shit that other drivers, pedestrians, and animals will pull on you...

There is also the problem of overcorrection. In most games I've played, when you start oversteering, you press the other button and the car eventually goes back in line. In real life, very often you get a sort of a pendulum effect.

Yeah, the initial turn that the car makes into the corner isn?t so bad. It?s the subsequent turn towards the trees on the outside of the corner that gets most people...

I have experienced the pendulum effect, and I know what you mean, but I think it's the easiest part of the oversteer to correct,

No.

 

[LeVeL]

pendulum effect is present in forza, for example, and probably many other games
and no, it's often far from easy to correct for. idk about you and your volvo, but I know in my friend's Miata you have to be really careful coming out of big slides in the snow. With FWD it's not hard to correct though. AWD - can't tell you for sure as I haven't gotten sideways in AWD yet

 

[teeb]

Racing games do train your reflexes to a certain extent, and they?re great for memorizing tracks with no danger at all.

This is what I'd call a big advantage of them.

I've read a fair few articles - featuring both racing drivers, journalists, and "Everyman" - where they can use games like GT4 to 'learn' racetracks they've never been to before, or they can "try out" lines and techniques that they could never try in real life due to being killed to death.

One example that particularly sticks out is the Nurburgring (in GT4).

Having said that, never try a track or car in a game and then fly out and attempt to do the same thing in real life. That way, possible death and certain mockery on internet forums await you.

 

[Posmo]

pendulum effect is present in forza, for example, and probably many other games
and no, it's often far from easy to correct for. idk about you and your volvo, but I know in my friend's Miata you have to be really careful coming out of big slides in the snow. With FWD it's not hard to correct though. AWD - can't tell you for sure as I haven't gotten sideways in AWD yet

Miata's have rock hard suspension, so the weight transfer directly affects the position of the car. the volvo has the soggiest set of springs and dampeners ever known, a tank slapper just straightens the car a bit and makes it wollowy(sp?). But anyway, this thread was not started to argue whether countering a pendulum effect is harder than sustaining a drift, back on track please.

 

[_HighVoltage_]

pendulum effect is present in forza, for example, and probably many other games
and no, it's often far from easy to correct for. idk about you and your volvo, but I know in my friend's Miata you have to be really careful coming out of big slides in the snow. With FWD it's not hard to correct though. AWD - can't tell you for sure as I haven't gotten sideways in AWD yet

I am not so sure about the last. My Polo is FWD and I was having some fun the other day on an icy road (no cars usually drive there) and once the back steps out there is very little I could do to fix it. Gentle slides are ok, but when I tried a more vigorous slide, the car simply went sideways no matter what I did with the throttle or the steering wheel - I had absolutely no control of the rear of the car.

 

[LeVeL]

Miata's have rock hard suspension, so the weight transfer directly affects the position of the car. the volvo has the soggiest set of springs and dampeners ever known, a tank slapper just straightens the car a bit and makes it wollowy(sp?). But anyway, this thread was not started to argue whether countering a pendulum effect is harder than sustaining a drift, back on track please.

Miatas are actually very soft. And besides, the softer a car's suspension is, the MORE pronounces the pendulum effect becomes because softer = more roll = more weight transfer.

I am not so sure about the last. My Polo is FWD and I was having some fun the other day on an icy road (no cars usually drive there) and once the back steps out there is very little I could do to fix it. Gentle slides are ok, but when I tried a more vigorous slide, the car simply went sideways no matter what I did with the throttle or the steering wheel - I had absolutely no control of the rear of the car.

Counter-steering and mashing the gas usually works

 

[MadCow809]

How much can you learn from video games?

Lots, if you have are clued up about weight balance, and understand the difference and methods of how to apply your understanding of "simulated physics" in the real world.

In the real world, you actually understeer alot more than you do in video games. Timing, slip angles and steering rate are all different as well. I'd say the kind of stuff you can learn from a sim racing game is actually more about the theoratical side of weight balancing & weight transferring. It's more about the learning physics of the game (which is coded to be as close to real world physics as possible). But in terms of real world car control, personally I don't think a simulation game will help much, even with a steering wheel and pedals.

There are lots of other stuff that you can pick up from the game as well. Such as

1) Track layout - Most simulation games are pretty accurate in terms of track layout and corner markers, at least it be should able to help you to remember the track's layout.

2) Racing line - You can pick up some great racing lines from simulation games. Most of the time they are pretty much identical to the real ideal racing line.




You can not learn car control on any racing games, but you can pick up good amount of real life world physics from the game. A good racing game should be able to help you in advance driving, only if you know how to apply the right knowledge.

 

[MadCat360]

The first issue with basic (very basic) car control is simply to know roughly what you?re supposed to do. Some theoretical knowledge of this can in fact be gained from playing games, trying to improve at them, and thus reading up on real world driving techniques. The simple fact that you?ve even heard of the concept of applying opposite lock when the back kicks out already helps quite a lot compared to the average driver. But that?s it. Really.

If you have the slightest illusion that you can control a car based on playing games, you will get hurt. Or in the best of all possible scenarios learn your lesson after a hefty bill from the shop. I love racing games, especially to get over the ring addiction through the winter. But if there?s one thing I definitely discovered, it?s that performance driving in real life will massively improve your skills in racing games, but not the other way round.

Racing games do train your reflexes to a certain extent, and they?re great for memorizing tracks with no danger at all. Even F1 drivers resort to the playstation, xbox, whatever to learn tracks that they?ve never driven on. But even the bestest of the superbest racing simulation isn?t going to teach you car control. You can however try to apply your theoretical knowledge from racing games to the real world if you happen to find a nice big empty parking lot with lots of ice, and that WILL teach you something.

x100000000000000000000000000

Considering the time you have to spend playing games to learn things, they are absolutely no substitute. Even if you're top of the time sheets in the best of the best simulators with the fastest and most difficult car to handle, you're still not prepared to take even something as simple as a Civic around a track and be anywhere near race speeds.

Playing video games helped me understand some things my instructors were telling me, but in the actual act of driving they did basically nothing. In the beginning I was just as slow as everyone else with no experience. I think I said this before once, but if I had the option of 10 laps of practice plus a walkaround of a track I've never driven, versus 10 hours of practice in a video game... I'd take the walk and 10 laps every time.

Lately I've been using video games in conjunction with a few books I've been reading to help me understand car setup, but even then it's still just an aid to help me understand something rather than put it into practice.

 

[the infinite jar]

I think the only thing I can add is that I think that playing a good simulator will help you progress faster as a real driver. It won't teach you to drive, but it will teach you the concepts and theory involved and if you apply that knowledge to what's actually happening with your car when you drive, you will be able to understand and learn quicker than without the help of video games.

 

[Peter3hg]

I think driving games can teach you very little about car control but they are good at teaching you the proper lines to take around corners.
Referring to the pendulum effect, I find the pendulum effect is actually surprisingly similar to real life when playing LFS with a FF wheel. In both cases there is little you can do when it goes and the sensation through the wheel is very close. Other than that, the sensation of driving in a game is never going to feel even remotely the same due to the lack of any G-forces.

 

[melbournian]

I think driving games could teach you how to race and take the best line in corners and all that, but as to driving in an every day situation and being aware of the road rules and the cars and people and obstacles and cyclists and everything around you, I wouldn't say that they're very useful. I've been driving for just over two years and recently started playing driving games and wouldn't say they've made any impact on my day-to-day driving skills.

 

[vikiradTG2007]

Referring to the pendulum effect, I find the pendulum effect is actually surprisingly similar to real life when playing LFS with a FF wheel. In both cases there is little you can do when it goes and the sensation through the wheel is very close. Other than that, the sensation of driving in a game is never going to feel even remotely the same due to the lack of any G-forces.

Some other sims do replicate this as well. Personally, while playing rFactor, I had a few cases of overdoing it and the car going into a wild pendulum-like swing which, inevitably, resulted in a spin. Funnily enough, you can learn to drive economically in a racing game, but only economically in racing terms and only if you force yourself to do it.

Racing games are good for learning tracks and for getting a good line on them which you may want to attempt in real life, if you have the balls to do it. They're useless for everything else, except for having fun with a car without killing yourself to death.