I just backed over my kid, it must be the cars fault!

Wait, I'm still really confused by the original story.

1. The kid didn't see the coming van and didn't jump out of the way?
2. When hit, the kid didn't start screaming or anything to alert the driver?
3. Hitting a kid surely must be noticeable when you're behind the wheel? Like a speed bump or something?

If your driving a larger vehicle you may not hear much, esp if the vehicle is newer (due to all of the sound insulation) the radio's on, cabin fan running, etc.

By the time screams are heard, I'm sure it's too late
 
First, what hansvonaxion posted.
Second, this is just ridiculous. Forcing expensive equipment into ALL cars is just dumb. Rear mounted cameras and the needed screen up front, to solve a problem that affects a tiny tiny tiny percentage of the total crashes in that country. As said before, 80% of crashes are a result of people eating in their cars.


I'm not saying all americans are bad, and all american things suck, but they should focus on solving the larger problems, not the specific ones like this. Eating and drinking in a car should be as illegal as talking on your phone or even more. When was the last time ketchup dripped from your phone and you crashed into the car in front cos you were trying to clean it off your blouse?
I get it that you like driving along sipping coffee but it's not safe. Can't it wait 10 minutes till you reach your place of work or home? I've been told by americans that a car that doesn't have nice cupholders just doesn't sell. Which is messed up in a ton of different levels.

This part of your post just exhibits a lack of understanding of America in general.

I don't know how many times we have to explain this to you guys over in Europe but America is FUCKING big. Connecticut, the state I live in, is the 48th largest state at about 5,500 square miles or a little over 14,000 square KM. Maine, the largest state in New England and about a five to six hour drive away from most places in CT, is the 39th largest state at about 35,000 square miles or 91,000 plus square KM slightly larger then the whole country of Portugal.

Banning people from eating and drinking in their car would never, ever happen in the US. It would however be an interesting way to control obesity in this country.

Still never going to happen in the US. This time of year I work 75 plus hours a week. If I couldn't eat and drink in my car I wouldn't have time to eat.

I typically only ever drink things with a straw in my car just for the reason that it makes it easier to still see. I don't drink much coffee at all so almost everything has a straw.

As to the backing on kids thing, it's a mix of badly educated kids and badly educated drivers. Always back up slowly and teach your kid to stay clear of cars that have the white light behind them lit, and that if a car hits them, scream as soon as you can so the driver will stop.

Want a cheap fix for this? Make all cars mandatory to have an aural alert when engaging reverse, like two short beeps (not a long constant horn like lorries, that's annoying)

There isn't anyway a backup camera, if the automaker decides to use one as a camera is not required by the law, will cost $2,000 as Specter says.


Volvo has in the past had a tendency over price their cars and in particular overprice techy or gadget like options. They are getting much better about this and have done a ton of pretty drastic price drops in the past year.

In the past for example the Volvo backup camera accessory for cars with the navigation system cost $1,170 dollars to install full customer retail price at a dealer. That is just the camera not the screen. Crazy overpriced almost no one bought it. Actual cost was closer to 800 if you pulled all the labor and parts markup out. If you got the same system installed at the port the list price was around 800 dollars and cost was in the 600 range IIRC.

Now Volvo includes the back up camera as part of the multimedia package standard.

The old pre-2011 multimedia package cost $2,500 and the new 2011 one costs $2,700 dollars.

So the camera, all of its hardware and all the software to put on neat graphics on the screen showing you where your bumper is in relation to objects and where your back tires are going costs $200 to the customer. I bet it costs Volvo less then $100. Oh a color coded graphical representation from the bumper's parking sensors are also overlaid onto the image on the screen. A pretty good deal overall considering though the rest of the multimedia package is still overpriced.

That is with the price of the screen already built into the old multimedia package price.

My guess without a screen already in place the cost of doing a backup camera system at the factory would be around 250-500 dollars depending on the type and size of screen used. The manufacturer will then charge whatever they think they can get for that system. Lots of cars are going to multimedia systems with fairly large screens built into the dash because that is what customers want even on lower end model cars.

I have had people refuse to even look at cars that don't have backup cameras. This has been going on for about five years now. I once had a guy buy a Range Rover over a Range Rover Sport that he liked better simply because the Range Rover had a factory backup camera and the Range Rover Sport was not available with one. Think about that for a second.

The guy spend $15,000 more on a car because of the camera. Well that and his new trophy wife through a fit to get a car with a camera over one without it.

Not that the average person has an extra $15,000 around to buy a car but still it shows how much people want those features.

Keep in mind this is also all in today's dollars not dollars from four to five years in the future. Technology like this doesn't cost more in five years it costs less. So something simple like a backup camera, the related hardware and software that costs an OEM $150 now may only cost $95 in five years. Regular plain average cars are much cheaper now then they were 10-15 years ago.
 
I'm sorry but my parents for the longest time would commute to and from work in the bus, 1 hour going, 1 hour coming back, and they're doctors so no short hours either, however they didnt starve to death. You don't need to eat in your car. It doesn't matter where you live.

If someone wants a reverse camera, then that's fine, but I don't think there's any need to make them mandatory.
 
Edit: response to crazyrussian

Someone mentioned the kid being 18months.

1. Kids that age can barely walk let alone jump out of the way of a reversing vehicle.

2. See point 1. Plus all it would really take would be a bump to knock the kid over so they crack their head on the concrete.

3. See point 2. But say you do feel something, the kids already gone under the wheels, that's not good.
 
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When my son was about 10 months old he launched himself from between my wife and I when were lying in bed with him between us. He nearly took a header off the bed but I managed to grab one of his arms and the back of his pants/diaper. He was actually airborne for a second above my chest. Why did he do that? No idea he just got excited and pretty much bounced himself off the bed.

Kids even little kids can surprise you with how strong and fast they are.
 
Kids even little kids can surprise you with how strong and fast and apparently suicidal they are.

Fixed that for ya ;)

When my first son was about two, my son was sitting on the kitchen floor. I walked out of the kitchen, went and retrieved a beverage from the other room, and came back. When I came back, he was walking along the edge of the countertop. I still, to this day, have no idea how he got up there or why.
 
Fixed that for ya ;)

When my first son was about two, my son was sitting on the kitchen floor. I walked out of the kitchen, went and retrieved a beverage from the other room, and came back. When I came back, he was walking along the edge of the countertop. I still, to this day, have no idea how he got up there or why.

Yeah that is true. My son rolled off the couch and landed face first on the floor when he was very young like three months old or so. I didn't know he could roll over yet and had him sitting next to me at the back of the couch. I leaned forward to grab something off the coffee table and he rolled right down on to his stomach then onto his back again and then right onto the floor.

My boss at work has two kids and he jokes that his primary job is just to keep them from alive. Its one of the reasons why they all take Taekwondo as a family. Assault anyone of them at your own risk.

Scared the shit out of me but when I picked him up nothing was out of place just his forehead and nose were red. He cried really hard for about 30 seconds really hard then was over it.

He has a really high pain tolerance like me and it worries me a bit that he will actually really hurt himself and just ignore it because it doesn't hurt too much. My MIL has noticed the same thing when she watches him.

Back on topic. My MINI Cooper S, which at the time I bought it was the shortest car sold in the US, had big open windows and slim pillars with a large back window relative to the size of the car.

I couldn't see a two to three year old that ran behind my car if they did it very quickly and they can move very quickly. The old apartment I had before I bought my house had a lot of young kids most of which did a good job of watching out for cars in the parking lot. A few though didn't and even the ones that did if they got excited or were playing might forget because that is what kids do.


There are plenty of other things you can harp on the NHTSA or other gov't agencies for going to far but I don't think this is one of them.

As I said there are already lots of customers currently who won't buy a car without a backup camera. That number is just going to increase in four to five years. Auto companies would probably have made them standard on all but the cheapest model in the next ten years anyway this is just speeding it up.

My biggest concern is that people will rely on them too much. At UPS all of our package trucks have backup cameras. Just simple black and white ones but that is all you need to check right behind the truck and help line it up for loading docks.

Drivers are taught not to use the camera alone. You use the camera like an extra mirror. You check your mirrors, you honk your horn, you check your camera, you stick your head out the window, you honk your horn, you start to back up while checking mirrors and camera again then stick your head out the window honk again continue backing and checking mirrors.

Those aren't the exact driver's methods for backing up but they are close.
 
I'm sorry but my parents for the longest time would commute to and from work in the bus, 1 hour going, 1 hour coming back, and they're doctors so no short hours either, however they didnt starve to death. You don't need to eat in your car. It doesn't matter where you live.

If someone wants a reverse camera, then that's fine, but I don't think there's any need to make them mandatory.

I have bad news for you. Not everyone on the planet is like your parents... Also not everyone keeps the same hours, for instance I had to come in to work by 7:30 a couple of times (I take the train normally btw) instead of normal 9am and it's pretty damn tough to stay awake w/o any kind of a beverage to drink.

Just a couple of hours ago I made a 30 minute drive out to a Walmart, I had a beverage that I was drinking from time to time. Somehow no one died...

@Mitlov,
We seem to have the same beverage of choice :)
 
I really don't think eating/drinking should be illegal either. Next year, I am going to be working 8.5 hours a day, 5 days a week and taking 3 subjects per semester at uni (night-time). Can't eat whilst working (except in lunch break obviously), can't eat in lecture theatres/tutorials, so am i meant to starve after work and before uni? It is literally jump in the car right on finishing time, rush over to uni and get into class 5 mins late even without eating.

And drinking is too wide-ranged to be made illegal. I often have a bottle of water with a straw in it in my cupholder to drink at traffic lights. Why should that be illegal? I always have at least one hand still on the wheel and eyes on the road....
 
Its not about visibility from inside the car. You should always check behind your car before backing up. That way, you can see things you couldn't see from the inside of any car. It even says to do that in the California driver's handbook. (I might well be the only one in the whole entire country who actually reads the DMV handbooks...) I have always had to do that anyway because I have a few neighbors who let their cats run around the neighborhood, and I don't want to squish one that decided to take a nap under my car. I might not have time to hose off the driveway if I had somewhere to go. If I can check behind my car for a fucking cat, people should be able to check behind their cars for their kids. Or, you know, be responsible parents and teach their kids to be fucking careful around cars.

I hate this shit. Any problem that can be solved by people not being fucking lazy as hell should not be solved by laws. We already have too much mandatory garbage in our cars that anyone who knows how to put their pants on properly shouldn't need.
 
You're not driving the train, are you, prizrak? Did you read the part about 80% of crashes in America being caused by food or drink? I think that's enough to at least take a look at some regulations. Honestly if cell phones are illegal cos they distract you a little bit, even though you keep your eyes on the road and one hand on the wheel, what do you think a double quarter pounder with cheese you just got at the drive through should be?

In countries where there's little to no accidents caused by food or drink I see no reason for it to be illegal, but I find it weird they're doing things like "you can't adjust your radio while you drive" in the UK and yet eating, drinking or smoking in the car are fine.

My main point in all of this was that it seems that instead of forcing the industry to fit rear-view cameras they should try to educate more responsible drivers. If someone doesn't check the mirrors well enough while backing out, then they won't check the cameras either, unless they have some sort of proximity sensors that set off other types of alarms, or even apply the brakes itself. But overall I oppose to features that take responsibility away from the drivers for two reasons... one, the more you have to do in a car (and I mean, in regard to driving it, not 'the more entertainment you get'), the more alert you'll be. If you turn on cruise control on your automatic car and your sole responsibility is to look ahead and steer, you'll probably fall asleep out of boredom in 3 miles. In other words, what Strelok said:

Strelok16 said:
I hate this shit. Any problem that can be solved by people not being fucking lazy as hell should not be solved by laws. We already have too much mandatory garbage in our cars that anyone who knows how to put their pants on properly shouldn't need.
The second reason is a legal one... you can just claim the automatic system failed, and it wasn't your fault you ran over the child.

To sum up, rear cameras are good, they can avoid this kind of accidents, but I think there are other major issues law makers should be focusing on.

I couldn't see a two to three year old that ran behind my car if they did it very quickly and they can move very quickly. The old apartment I had before I bought my house had a lot of young kids most of which did a good job of watching out for cars in the parking lot. A few though didn't and even the ones that did if they got excited or were playing might forget because that is what kids do.

About this, I think yes, a kid could run behind your car as you back up. But he's not gonna stay there waiting to be ran over, he was probably running through, right? In which case, exactly how damn fast should you back up in order to severely injure a kid, let alone run over him?
This is what I mean by educating the drivers. If you're in a residential zone, back up slowly. Easy as that. Slowly enough that if you hear a bump, you can hit the brakes and the kid is still miles away from your rear wheels.
 
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I (and most of the people I meet) believe legislation is something to be avoided at all costs, thats why Sweden is the single country in Europe where it's still legal to talk on the phone while driving (altough everyone in all other countries do it too, just not legally). I've not met a single truck driver that can go a single day without calling someone or given new orders over the phone, and they manage perfectly well to both talk and write notes while driving.

People should be allowed to do almost anything as long as they're capable of doing it, but also pay a price if they cannot. Personally I would like to "draw the line" at eating while driving, a car is not an appropriate venue for ingesting food (even more so if you're driving). Still as I don't like legislation I wouldnt want to ban it outright, I'm sure there are foods and situations that I have not thought of where there are no prolems. However if you do run off the road with a whole kebab in your face it's only reasonable that your insurance payout is reduced with the appropriate amount given your carelessness.

I don't buy the commute argument, it's up to the individual to make time for eating in an appropriate way. Myself I do 200 km a day without eating on the road, I eat before and after.
 
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You're not driving the train, are you, prizrak? Did you read the part about 80% of crashes in America being caused by food or drink? I think that's enough to at least take a look at some regulations. Honestly if cell phones are illegal cos they distract you a little bit, even though you keep your eyes on the road and one hand on the wheel, what do you think a double quarter pounder with cheese you just got at the drive through should be?

In countries where there's little to no accidents caused by food or drink I see no reason for it to be illegal, but I find it weird they're doing things like "you can't adjust your radio while you drive" in the UK and yet eating, drinking or smoking in the car are fine.

99.9% of accidents are caused by driver error. We should ban people from driving as clearly people are not nearly good enough to handle fast moving, massive objects of death. There are always distractions on the road, the above mentioned radio would be one of them, I had my first accident because I was talking to my passenger and was distracted. I've had plenty of near misses with people coming out of stop signs and looking the wrong way. I almost caused a crash myself because my windshield mounted GPS lost suction and fell off the windshield into my lap. I almost ran over a dude in a cross walk because it was raining and there was an oncoming car with brights on so I couldn't see a dude in dark clothes (thank god for good tires/abs/fast reaction/luck). There are a million and one hazards/distractions on the road, eating/drinking is just one more in a huge line of things that can cause you to crash.
My main point in all of this was that it seems that instead of forcing the industry to fit rear-view cameras they should try to educate more responsible drivers. If someone doesn't check the mirrors well enough while backing out, then they won't check the cameras either
I'm getting tired of repeating it, the actual wording of the law does not mandate a rear view camera at all. You can run all the checks you want and be the best driver out there but in the 15 seconds it takes to get into your car and put it in reverse a kid has plenty of time to get behind it and I can guarantee you that even in my car you won't see a 2-3 year old (unless they are freakishly tall) if they are directly behind you. I've had a few near misses when something told me to not reverse the car when I was about to and do another mirror check and sure enough there was a kid walking out from behind my car.

It's funny that you should mention better driver education/responsibility as you are pushing so hard for banning eating/drinking in a car.
a car is not an appropriate venue for ingesting food
I agree with that but it's not nearly as dangerous as people make it out to be.

I manage to IM on my phone when I drive. I just wait until I get to a long enough red light to do it...
 
I'm getting tired of repeating it, the actual wording of the law does not mandate a rear view camera at all. You can run all the checks you want and be the best driver out there but in the 15 seconds it takes to get into your car and put it in reverse a kid has plenty of time to get behind it and I can guarantee you that even in my car you won't see a 2-3 year old (unless they are freakishly tall) if they are directly behind you. I've had a few near misses when something told me to not reverse the car when I was about to and do another mirror check and sure enough there was a kid walking out from behind my car.

I agree, and think a lot of people miss this/accounting for real world scenarios when making the look around your car argument. I agree that you should look around your car, its just smart anyway so you can see if there's any problems that could hinder your journey like a tire that's low on air, but from the moment you cross the side of the car and get in it's fair game for something/someone to get behind there. Most people also don't turn on the car and reverse as soon as they get in, they get comfortable in the seat, put on the seatbelt, adjust climate control and a myriad of other things. This adds additional time that your rearward path could become obstructed.

I like the additional liftgate mounted mirror idea myself, along with my aforementioned preference for parking sensors but the former would be impossible to install on sedans and pickup trucks. A lot of people assume that only people with SUV's and Minivans have rearward visibility problems, but the in vogue combo of low rooflines and high decklids on today's sedans results in absolutely pathetic rearward visibility...your 75% guaranteed to get a better view of the sky when reversing than actually seeing what's directly behind you it seems.
 
120,000 miles and I've never backed over anything or even had a near miss backing up. People drive like idiots in parking lots, a camera will not fix stupidity. And if you wanna argue blind spots, have you seen the trucks we get here, they have a nice big blind spot in front a kid could hide in as well.
 
99.9% of accidents are caused by driver error.
No, just... No. Source on that ridiculous percentage.

I'm getting tired of repeating it, the actual wording of the law does not mandate a rear view camera at all. You can run all the checks you want and be the best driver out there but in the 15 seconds it takes to get into your car and put it in reverse a kid has plenty of time to get behind it and I can guarantee you that even in my car you won't see a 2-3 year old (unless they are freakishly tall) if they are directly behind you. I've had a few near misses when something told me to not reverse the car when I was about to and do another mirror check and sure enough there was a kid walking out from behind my car.

You're tired of repeating yourself, are you?
What about me having to repeat this

About this, I think yes, a kid could run behind your car as you back up. But he's not gonna stay there waiting to be ran over, he was probably running through, right? In which case, exactly how damn fast should you back up in order to severely injure a kid, let alone run over him?
This is what I mean by educating the drivers. If you're in a residential zone, back up slowly. Easy as that. Slowly enough that if you hear a bump, you can hit the brakes and the kid is still miles away from your rear wheels.

What's your rebuttal/counter argument to that?
Now you're gonna tell me that 99% of cars are sound proof, 99% of people listen to music while they back up in a residential area, 99% of kids stand mesmerized behind cars cos they're fascinated by white lights, and 99% of cars back up at no less than 30 km/h.

For the kajillionth time. I'm not saying it's completely avoidable that you back up and hit something or someone. I've hit a few lamp posts myself when trying to 3 point turn in very narrow roads trying to get every inch of room I could get. But because I was driving sensibly, backing up at like 3 km/h, my rear bumper didn't even get a scratch.
I ask again, how fast do you have to be backing up, and how much of a moron do you have to be to back out at that speed, to hit a kid and really make some damage?
 
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*repeating text*


The simple act of the bumper knocking him/her down could do damage..esp if the child hits their head on concrete. It's not just the wheels that can do damage. It's not like people here in the US just back out at warp speed all the time either, :rolleyes: give us a tad bit more credit than that. If a child is close enough to the car so you can't see them, chances are they're so close that as soon as you start reversing you've pushed them violently down onto the ground.
 
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