Idiots + cars = LOL

prizrak

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The rest of the current Toyota and Lexus line-up? Boooooring. And I don't mean the "Oh, it looks grey and bland" type of boring (because frankly that also fits to my Tiguan) but "Sorry, we don't care about making nice cars" kind of boring. My VW may be bland but it's at least nice to drive.
My buddy who drives a GS-F might disagree with that opinion....

As far as passion goes, I don't see Europeans doing much better. VAG is essentially killing manuals in favor of economy/laptimes. Porsche went with Subaru motors for most of their line up. BMW makes cars by the foot and even the ///M is more computer on wheels than a pure driver's machine these days. MB makes no interesting cars outside of their beyond overpriced super cars. Nissan/Infinity and Subaru on the other hand still make real enthusiast cars to the point that Infiniti dropped the all pervasive electric steering in their Q60S for better feel
 
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marcos_eirik

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My buddy who drives a GS-F might disagree with that opinion....

As far as passion goes, I don't see Europeans doing much better. VAG is essentially killing manuals in favor of economy/laptimes. Porsche went with Subaru motors for most of their line up. BMW makes cars by the foot and even the ///M is more computer on wheels than a pure driver's machine these days. MB makes no interesting cars outside of their beyond overpriced super cars. Nissan/Infinity and Subaru on the other hand still make real enthusiast cars to the point that Infiniti dropped the all pervasive electric steering in their Q60S for better feel
What? BMW got tons of praise for the M2, current MBs (AMGs in particular) has also got lots of good reviews for the large improvement in handling, compared to previous generations. And, how is Porsche using Subaru motors when their use of a flat-4 engine predates not only the existence of Subaru as a car manufacturer (1953), but also it's use of a boxer engine (1965) by about 15 years? :roll:
 

gaasc

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I believe it's dangerous to take cars in anything other than a case-by-case basis. The GS-F is exciting but the Camry is definitely not. The BMW M2 may be the darling of everyone that can only muster up bile for the 2-Series Active Tourer.
 

prizrak

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Idiots + cars = LOL

What? BMW got tons of praise for the M2,
It did and comparatively speaking it's a good car but the fact is that it's very much a computer on wheels.
current MBs (AMGs in particular) has also got lots of good reviews for the large improvement in handling, compared to previous generations.
Not exactly a difficult fit now is it? Also they are still hardly enthusiast cars, they are basically Euro muscle. Hell the fact that manual isn't even offered consigns them to the *yawn* pile
And, how is Porsche using Subaru motors when their use of a flat-4 engine predates not only the existence of Subaru as a car manufacturer (1953), but also it's use of a boxer engine (1965) by about 15 years? :roll:
I was going for hyperbole here, and the many videos where they sound like a tuned WRX.
I believe it's dangerous to take cars in anything other than a case-by-case basis. The GS-F is exciting but the Camry is definitely not. The BMW M2 may be the darling of everyone that can only muster up bile for the 2-Series Active Tourer.

Basically this
 
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Redliner

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I believe it's dangerous to take cars in anything other than a case-by-case basis. The GS-F is exciting but the Camry is definitely not. The BMW M2 may be the darling of everyone that can only muster up bile for the 2-Series Active Tourer.

I think you're spot-on.
With a few exceptions, car companies nowadays need a range of cars, not just the one that made them famous or is the cause for moist panties in enthusiast circles.
You take your Cayenne to make the Cayman GT4 possible, the Active Tourer to finance the M4 GTS and so on.

I want my Caterham 620R in white with red stripes, please. :p
 

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public

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I realize the discussion has moved on, but generally I feel every car made today looks like this inside (or with a tacked-on tablet):

toyota_corolla_2016_interior.jpg


I'd really rather have an ultra-bland but concise 1996 interior and zero infotainment.
 
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TC

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I'd really rather have an ultra-bland but concise 1996 interior and zero infotainment.

Same. I don't think they're going to age very well. It reminds me of how cars, like E46 M3's, are more desirable without the old optional navigation, just because of how dated they make the interiors.

BMWM3Coupe-59_1.jpg


693.jpg
 

_HighVoltage_

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It can be done right, but a lot of people are fooled by the OMG touchscreen factor, thinking it's an upgrade from their previous car. For example, my friend's 2015 Impreza. The infortainment system in that one looks like a cheap Chinese knock-off of an iPad. It doesn't have a quality feel, the functionality is...funky (sure, it works, but it's not ideal). Not to mention the horrific audio quality coming out of the standard 6-speaker set-up in the car. Despite the modern-ish look and technological advancement (you could spec it with a subwoofer, but I don't think it would help), it sounds terrible compared to a good sound system in a premium car from the 90s or 00s.

But the one I hate the most is the one they put in some of the new Mercedes's. The rest of the interior is excellent, but then they just slapped the screen on top of the dash:
2015-mercedes-benz-c250-interior-photo-560941-s-1280x782.jpg
 

prizrak

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It can be done right, but a lot of people are fooled by the OMG touchscreen factor, thinking it's an upgrade from their previous car. For example, my friend's 2015 Impreza. The infortainment system in that one looks like a cheap Chinese knock-off of an iPad. It doesn't have a quality feel, the functionality is...funky (sure, it works, but it's not ideal). Not to mention the horrific audio quality coming out of the standard 6-speaker set-up in the car. Despite the modern-ish look and technological advancement (you could spec it with a subwoofer, but I don't think it would help), it sounds terrible compared to a good sound system in a premium car from the 90s or 00s.

But the one I hate the most is the one they put in some of the new Mercedes's. The rest of the interior is excellent, but then they just slapped the screen on top of the dash:
2015-mercedes-benz-c250-interior-photo-560941-s-1280x782.jpg
It looks like they designed the interior and then went "oh fuck people want these screen things! Fine grab a Kindle Fire and put some custom software on it!"
 

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This discussion is waaaaay off-topic, but anyway.

Designers can't really win with the screens - they are simply too big to integrate well in a conventional centre console. Touch-screen is a dumb concept in a moving car anyway. Either you go all-out like Tesla and use a screen the size of a computer monitor instead of a centre console, or you go the Audi way with the fully-digital "gauge cluster" and no screen in the middle of the dashboard at all.
The problem with the aging is software. If a car maker does an own infotainment software/ui, it will never be as good as what Apple and Google are doing, and to keep it up to date (not only the navigation data, but in terms of functionality and UI design) requires resources far beyond what car makers are willing to, or frankly, can bring into it.
So the sensible thing would be to just use Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. And develop some open API for the sensors and actuators of the car so they can be used by the phone navigation and infotainment software. The catch: Making the internal car software accessible from the outside is a profoundly risky idea...
 

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110 years ago you people would have complained about how these stinking, loud machines called "cars" stole the business of horse-drawn carriage owners :p

Get over it. Time doesn't stop or turn itself back, no matter how sentimental or nostalgic you are ;)
 
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prizrak

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Idiots + cars = LOL

This discussion is waaaaay off-topic, but anyway.

Designers can't really win with the screens - they are simply too big to integrate well in a conventional centre console. Touch-screen is a dumb concept in a moving car anyway. Either you go all-out like Tesla and use a screen the size of a computer monitor instead of a centre console, or you go the Audi way with the fully-digital "gauge cluster" and no screen in the middle of the dashboard at all.
The problem with the aging is software. If a car maker does an own infotainment software/ui, it will never be as good as what Apple and Google are doing, and to keep it up to date (not only the navigation data, but in terms of functionality and UI design) requires resources far beyond what car makers are willing to, or frankly, can bring into it.
So the sensible thing would be to just use Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. And develop some open API for the sensors and actuators of the car so they can be used by the phone navigation and infotainment software. The catch: Making the internal car software accessible from the outside is a profoundly risky idea...

Motorized screens that come out of the dahs only when needed and/or Heada up displays can easily fix all these issues of design.
110 years ago you people would have complained about how these stinking, loud machines called "cars" stole the business of horse-drawn carriage owners :p

Get over it. Time doesn't stop or turn itself back, no matter how sentimental or nostalgic you are ;)


Funny coming from a man with a DVD collection.

Though this discussion has nothing to do with new tech vs new but rather esthetics and egonomics
 
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Peter3hg

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I think Audi got it spot on with the A3. It is uncluttered, no touchscreen and a lot of the time I drive with the screen retracted into the dash.

 

JTuhka

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110 years ago you people would have complained about how these stinking, loud machines called "cars" stole the business of horse-drawn carriage owners :p

Get over it. Time doesn't stop or turn itself back, no matter how sentimental or nostalgic you are ;)

No, poorly implemented latest tech isn't progress. That's how you end up with things like the 1980's digital dash fad or a $1,400 smart iron.

If the functionality isn't there, what is the point? The latest big thing in tech always comes half baked in fad-like waves and criticizing the bad products doesn't mean you're a Luddite.
 

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Motorized screens that come out of the dahs only when needed and/or Heada up displays can easily fix all these issues of design.



Funny coming from a man with a DVD movie collection.

Though this discussion has nothing to do with new tech vs new but rather esthetics and egonomics personal taste

Fixed that for you :p

No, poorly implemented latest tech isn't progress. That's how you end up with things like the 1980's digital dash fad or a $1,400 smart iron.

If the functionality isn't there, what is the point? The latest big thing in tech always comes half baked in fad-like waves and criticizing the bad products doesn't mean you're a Luddite.

Functionality? You think it was better in the 1970's or 1980's, before the "digital age"?

When I got my driving license in 1984, it was still completely normal for all dials to be hilariously inaccurate. Speedo needles were trembling, fuel gauges just a good guess at best.

You want that back? You can have it, I don't want it.
 
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prizrak

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Fixed that for you :p

Your movie collection is on physical media which is outmoded by online streaming (or local digital storage)

A clearly not designed to be there in the first place screen is not a matter of taste. Touch screen interface that requires driver to take their eyes off the road is poor ergonomics, taste has jack shit to do with it.


Functionality? You think it was better in the 1970's or 1980's, before the "digital age"?

When I got my driving license in 1984, it was still completely normal for all dials to be hilariously inaccurate. Speedo needles were trembling, fuel gauges just a good guess at best.

You want that back? You can have it, I don't want it.

What does bad technology have to do with ergonomics and esthetics? You can have accurate gauges and LCD screens all you want as long as it's well designed. Audi's digital pod is a good implementation of a "glass cockpit". Some BMW models (I think it was them) had full color HUDs with navigation that were amazing.

Technology for the sake of technology is rarely good, it has to be properly implemented to be useful.

P.S. Fuel gauges are not all that accurate to this day, there is just no reliable way to measure a fluid level in a moving vehicle.
 
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