Idiots + cars = LOL

narf

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With cars, I don't have a problem with laws that require automobile manufacturers to provide seatbelts but I don't think that on the individual level we should be forced to use them. Basically, I think you should be free to make bad decisions with your own life.

...and yet you think I shouldn't be free to make the bad decision of producing or buying a new car without seat belts?
 

LeVeL

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...and yet you think I shouldn't be free to make the bad decision of producing or buying a new car without seat belts?
That decision affects others. Although I wouldn't really mind if seatbelts were an optional extra or an aftermarket add-on; after all, bikes don't come with helmets from the factory.
 

narf

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That decision affects others. Although I wouldn't really mind if seatbelts were an optional extra or an aftermarket add-on; after all, bikes don't come with helmets from the factory.

In what way is the effect on others bigger? I'm buying a car without seatbelts and only drive alone / with people who wouldn't wear a seat belt if it had one.
Same situation as fitting a seat belt and not wearing it imo... and lots of room for cost and weight saving, because you don't need air bags if you skip the seat belts.
 

prizrak

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...and yet you think I shouldn't be free to make the bad decision of producing or buying a new car without seat belts?

There is a big difference between product standards and personal choices. A product being reasonably safe to it's user is a logical application of regulations, a mandated use of a product is not. Example: it's reasonable to have regulation on fireworks that says they cannot randomly explode in your hand as soon as the fuse is lit, but it is not reasonable to have a law telling me NOT to hold it in my hand until it explodes.
 

Mitchi

Sierras für alle!
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As an individual, why wouldn't you wanna use a seatbelt in the first place?
 

Redliner

Y'all got any lamps?
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I'd bet you a Br?nnchen Currywurst the sound in your head isn't actually a Bald Eagle :tease:

I knew that and I fully expected someone to point that out. :lol:

You still get you Currywurst for being the first. :p
 

jack_christie

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:blink:
Car smashes through railings into Tube underpass before driver flees

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...e-underpass-before-driver-flees-a3429156.html

proxy.jpg
 

SirEdward

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And none of that is really relevant because there is still no law that requires me to wear eye and ear protection - the key here is the difference between laws and the rules of a private club.

That is derailing the line of thought. You just call them different things because they apply to different geographical areas. But they are the same thing when you are inside the club; you must follow them or being thrown out.

The point stays: so many people understand so little of what they are doing that other people are setting limits to them to avoid them getting hurt. You can't choose if you don't understand the consequences of you actions.

That said, I repeat: rules should protect, not impose. If a rule forces people rather than protecting them... that rule is not ok.
 

prizrak

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That is derailing the line of thought. You just call them different things because they apply to different geographical areas. But they are the same thing when you are inside the club; you must follow them or being thrown out.

The point stays: so many people understand so little of what they are doing that other people are setting limits to them to avoid them getting hurt. You can't choose if you don't understand the consequences of you actions.

That said, I repeat: rules should protect, not impose. If a rule forces people rather than protecting them... that rule is not ok.

You missing the point, a private club's rules only apple to members of that club, which you cannot be forced into. If I don't like wearing ear protection I'll go to a range that doesn't require it or shoot in my backyard, if the local government requires all shooters to wear ear protection I don't get that choice. It's same as your work having the ability to establish a dress code but that dress code doesn't extend to what you wear outside the office.
 

LeVeL

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That is derailing the line of thought. You just call them different things because they apply to different geographical areas. But they are the same thing when you are inside the club; you must follow them or being thrown out.
100% wrong - it has NOTHING to do with geography. You seem to fundamentally not understand the difference between public and private actions.


The point stays: so many people understand so little of what they are doing that other people are setting limits to them to avoid them getting hurt. You can't choose if you don't understand the consequences of you actions.
Who the fuck are these "other people" and why the fuck do they think they know what's best for me??!?!?!?!
 

SirEdward

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You missing the point, a private club's rules only apple to members of that club. If I don't like wearing ear protection I'll go to a range that doesn't require it

If there is any.

Public life is just a fancier club, a club so big you can't get out of. But you could emigrate to some anarchy-driven country and do the heck you want. You just like to live in the US, and maybe many other such "clubs" won't accept you and let you into their premises, but there's no real difference in the way they make rules. This is of course an abstraction, and the practical consequences of the two sets of rules are not equal in any way, but the basic is that; a rule's a rule. They are no different, only their field of application is.

In that sense, smart private clubs set safety rules, and I specifically chose the gun range thing to talk to people who actually knows what shooting is (I was thinking more to Lev, I don't know about you) to show that safety rules may well be a good thing, given the incredible amount of imbecils roaming free everywhere in the world. The first time you take a gun in your hand, you don't understand anything about it, not even some of the most basics of gun safety. You can't get to understand certain things if no one teaches you, as trial and error requires you to be lucky to avoid major injuries or death. And even after being taught, many people still won't understand.

You, Lev, I, and everyone around here who ever tried to shoot any gun -know- how sound safety rules are for those things; this is another reason why I chose -that- particular example, to show that you need some basic rules sometimes, not because of people taking away your freedom, but because it's smart, pure and simple.

And if someone yells: "I have the right of trying to kill myself in the most idiotic ways possible", the only answer can be "F**k you, you brainless idiot, we're just trying to save your worthless life"

There is a clear and neat difference between rules that help you and rules that lock you.

Seatbelt is clearly falling into the first category.

That said, I have already said twice that -to me- the fine might have been avoided, perhaps, depending on the conditions of the episode.

Who the fuck are these "other people" and why the fuck do they think they know what's best for me??!?!?!?!

"Who do they think they are, them smartass "experts" telling people how to live their lives! There ain't nothing they can teach -me-!"
 
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TC

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?Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes.? ? Mahatma Gandhi
 
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