In U.S., 44 Percent Say Restrict Muslims

Zoomie

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MPower said:
justin syder said:
It is the greatest bit of irony when you go through an airport security check in America and the grand mother in front of you gets her bag and computer checked for weapons and bombs yet the suspecious gentleman behind you is not checked because he is Muslim and the politically correct people in this country get sensitive when we target people just because of their religion or race. However mean or cruel it might sound, it is life and we have to accept the fact that nearly 80-85 percent of terror attacks occur by people who are Muslim. Its just a fact accept it.
The exact reason why the elephant is pissing on the Liberals. They just dont get it. Racial profiling works, random checks dont because like MPower said, grandma could be just ahead of some arab in line at an airport but because grandma was the 4th randomly checked the terrorist suspect goes scott free.
Exactly. Its just not accepting that racial profiling is necessary. Random checks are good for those who just want to be politically correct and not tick someone off for being checked. The fact of the matter is that we need to take in account much more aspects when inspecting people than we do today. Random checks just give the terrorists more outs than he deserves.
Actually racial profiling won't work as well as you think. If I know they'll be checking me because I look Arab, I just get someone who is sympathetic and doesn't look Arab to cart whatever. Alot of black/coloured business ppl in South Africa did this to get white business. 8)

Besides, Arabs are only 20% of all Muslims. To you lot an Arab is automatically Muslim, and a Muslim is automatically Arab. Most Muslims are from the Indonesia/Malaysia region, and there are more black Muslims in Africa than Arab muslims.
 

justin syder

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Actually racial profiling won't work as well as you think. If I know they'll be checking me because I look Arab, I just get someone who is sympathetic and doesn't look Arab to cart whatever.
I don't think the 9-11 hijackers had someone else "cart" anything for them.

Besides, Arabs are only 20% of all Muslims. To you lot an Arab is automatically Muslim, and a Muslim is automatically Arab. Most Muslims are from the Indonesia/Malaysia region, and there are more black Muslims in Africa than Arab muslims.
There is that association with Arab and Muslim because many of the Islamic fanatics are Arab.

Why? For reasons of the situation Israel/Palestian or whatever. That is another debate altogether.
 

chaos386

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justin syder said:
Actually racial profiling won't work as well as you think. If I know they'll be checking me because I look Arab, I just get someone who is sympathetic and doesn't look Arab to cart whatever.
I don't think the 9-11 hijackers had someone else "cart" anything for them.
They didn't need to. No one in America was thinking about terrorism before 9/11, so there was no profiling of Arabs or Muslims. His point is that once they do start profiling, terrorists will use other nationalities to do the dirty work. Racial profiling could actually make it easier for terrorists by focusing attention away from other ethnic groups.
 

andyhui01

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how are they going to check if a person is muslim... as the guy above said... not all arabs are muslim and not all malaysian's are muslim as well... even though I am malaysian with a chinese background... I'm not a muslim and I have friends who are dark skin malaysians and indonesians but they are chrisians... I honestly think America has gone over the line this time on this
 

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how are they going to check if a person is muslim... as the guy above said... not all arabs are muslim and not all malaysian's are muslim as well... even though I am malaysian with a chinese background... I'm not a muslim and I have friends who are dark skin malaysians and indonesians but they are chrisians... I honestly think America has gone over the line this time on this
Did you read my post? -->
There is that association with Arab and Muslim because many of the Islamic fanatics are Arab.
They didn't need to. No one in America was thinking about terrorism before 9/11, so there was no profiling of Arabs or Muslims. His point is that once they do start profiling, terrorists will use other nationalities to do the dirty work. Racial profiling could actually make it easier for terrorists by focusing attention away from other ethnic groups.
How quickly do you think they can recruit non-Arab fanatics. This process takes a while in the mean time we would be capturing lots of terrorists.

And if you feel its so wrong to offend arabs because they look like possible terrorists all those that disagree with racial profiling provide me with your solution.

I'll be waiting for them.
 

chaos386

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justin syder said:
how are they going to check if a person is muslim... as the guy above said... not all arabs are muslim and not all malaysian's are muslim as well... even though I am malaysian with a chinese background... I'm not a muslim and I have friends who are dark skin malaysians and indonesians but they are chrisians... I honestly think America has gone over the line this time on this
Did you read my post? -->
There is that association with Arab and Muslim because many of the Islamic fanatics are Arab.
So how are you going to determine if someone is Arab? Check their passport? What if they have a fake one? I'm going to use logic here that conservatives use to opposed the banning of guns: that if you make it illegal, only criminals will have them, and it will be the innocent people that get the shaft. If you check by passport, only the law-abiding people will use their real passport from an Arab country. If a terrorist really wants to come in he'll use a fake one, and the only people you'll be checking will be non-terrorists.

justin syder said:
They didn't need to. No one in America was thinking about terrorism before 9/11, so there was no profiling of Arabs or Muslims. His point is that once they do start profiling, terrorists will use other nationalities to do the dirty work. Racial profiling could actually make it easier for terrorists by focusing attention away from other ethnic groups.
How quickly do you think they can recruit non-Arab fanatics. This process takes a while in the mean time we would be capturing lots of terrorists.

And if you feel its so wrong to offend arabs because they look like possible terrorists all those that disagree with racial profiling provide me with your solution.

I'll be waiting for them.
You act like it's hard to find non-Arabs around the world. The world is full of people who are down on their luck and want to have a scapegoat for all their problems instead of blaming themselves. All these terrorist groups need to do is convince these people that America is who to blame for their troubles, and since there are over one billion Muslims (many non-Arab as Andy pointed out), they have a large pool of people with whom they can twist their religion and act like "they're in it together."

My beef isn't so much about offending Arabs (although I would like to avoid being held for hours for no good reason, or to be tracked like a known felon) as it is about forgetting other crimes and giving terrorists more holes to sneak through by paying less attention to other racial groups. As for my solution, I think everyone who travels by plane should be checked.
 

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To attack America I would recruit a muslim from the Balkans maybe with a german passport and off you go. You wouldn't even know what hit you because you were so involved in racial profiling.
 

justin syder

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As for my solution, I think everyone who travels by plane should be checked.
Yeah because checking a 4 year old or a old lady would be a good way to deter terrorism. :roll: :roll:

Hold up everyone, cripple the airline business...great idea. :roll:

How many terrorists looked non-Arab?

Until these extremists recruit non-Arab looking terroritsts we should target those that look Arab as there is a great chance they might be a terrorist.

To attack America I would recruit a muslim from the Balkans maybe with a german passport and off you go. You wouldn't even know what hit you because you were so involved in racial profiling.
I wonder why they haven't picked up on that great idea. Getting a non Arab would only be part of it anyway. Its not as simple as you put it. Security is tighter and with profiling it will be nearly impossible to pull off another 9-11.

The world is full of people who are down on their luck and want to have a scapegoat for all their problems instead of blaming themselves.
Atleast you know why they are doing what they are doing and not blaming it on Israel or USA like those mindless sheep.
 

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justin syder said:
Its not as simple as you put it. Security is tighter and with profiling it will be nearly impossible to pull off another 9-11.
Sure, another plane hijack seems impossible but what should stop me from stealing some explosive farm supplies and blowing up a rodeo in some backwater town ? I could easily kill 300 people, enough to remind the public of the terrorist threat.
 

chaos386

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justin syder said:
As for my solution, I think everyone who travels by plane should be checked.
Yeah because checking a 4 year old or a old lady would be a good way to deter terrorism. :roll: :roll:

Hold up everyone, cripple the airline business...great idea. :roll:
Actually, everyone's luggage IS checked already (and has been since before 9/11) and everyone has to go through a metal detector, even little Jimmy and Grandma. We could use more ways to check everyone onboard quickly and fairly easily. The reason airports have been checking everyone is that it's not always the terrorist/hijacker/smuggler who's carrying the goods. The bad guys are known to plant their stuff on other passengers, which is why airports across the globe warn travellers to keep a continuous watch on their baggage. You can't trust someone just because they're not from the demographic currently being watched. You can't trust them even if you're 100% sure that they aren't a terrorist or whatever. Even the flight crews of the planes put their luggage through the X-ray machine!

I'll give you another example: here in Saudi Arabia there have been acts of terrorism as well. Housing compounds have been bombed, so now there are guards, barricades and army personell around each compound. They check the vehicles of everyone coming inside, even their own vehicles. The first step to having your defenses broken through is by paying less attention to parts you think are safer to focus more on the parts you think are. A defense is only as strong as the weakest link in the chain, and you can bet the terrorists will be spending much of their time trying to find those weak links. The best way towards an effective defense is to strengthen it's weakest points, not it's strongest ones.

justin syder said:
How many terrorists looked non-Arab?

Until these extremists recruit non-Arab looking terroritsts we should target those that look Arab as there is a great chance they might be a terrorist.
Waiting until the enemy has outsmarted you before you change your strategy is never a winning solution. :thumbsdown:
 

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I'll give you another example: here in Saudi Arabia there have been acts of terrorism as well.
Sure, another plane hijack seems impossible but what should stop me from stealing some explosive farm supplies and blowing up a rodeo in some backwater town ? I could easily kill 300 people, enough to remind the public of the terrorist threat.
Well atleast you both know there is a terrorist threat. Why do some Euros think otherwise?

Waiting until the enemy has outsmarted you before you change your strategy is never a winning solution
I highly doubt we are waiting around for them. None of us know what is going on behind the scenes, things that aren't on the news that are helping us in the war against terror. ;)
 

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justin syder said:
Well atleast you both know there is a terrorist threat. Why do some Euros think otherwise?
I don't think that any sane european would deny the risk of following terrorist attacks in america. It's just that we have the feeling that your political leaders exploit this to make the average american feel unsafe to pass all kinds of bills that ensures them and their protegee lasting wealth.
That's why alot of europeans cannot belive why you reelected bush. We think that they rip the American people off right in front of their faces and you connot see it.
Please let's not get into another Bush debate. I enjoy the current peace. :)
 

Zoomie

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justin syder said:
Yeah because checking a 4 year old or a old lady would be a good way to deter terrorism. :roll: :roll:

Hold up everyone, cripple the airline business...great idea. :roll:
So I stick whatever in the babies daiper and the old ladies handbag. By simply saying who will be checked and who won't be you provide a hole.

Checking everyone is truly the only way, but it is highly impractical, which is why it is not done. Same reason surveys don't poll everyone to get a result.

How many terrorists looked non-Arab?

Until these extremists recruit non-Arab looking terroritsts we should target those that look Arab as there is a great chance they might be a terrorist.
Man, you really make big holes to slip through

To attack America I would recruit a muslim from the Balkans maybe with a german passport and off you go. You wouldn't even know what hit you because you were so involved in racial profiling.
I wonder why they haven't picked up on that great idea. Getting a non Arab would only be part of it anyway. Its not as simple as you put it. Security is tighter and with profiling it will be nearly impossible to pull off another 9-11.
Maybe cos these ppl have their own problwms with the Russians. Why open a war on two fronts?

The world is full of people who are down on their luck and want to have a scapegoat for all their problems instead of blaming themselves.
Atleast you know why they are doing what they are doing and not blaming it on Israel or USA like those mindless sheep.
That seems a little too simplistic.
 

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I don't think that any sane european would deny the risk of following terrorist attacks in america. It's just that we have the feeling that your political leaders exploit this to make the average american feel unsafe to pass all kinds of bills that ensures them and their protegee lasting wealth.
That sooo sounds like you copied that idea from Farenheit 9-11.

PLEASE explain how politicians are benefiting from the whole war on terror. How are they getting richer??

I'd like to see proof or these Bills you think our congress is passing to ensure the wealth of these politicians otherwise I'll take what you said as a load of bullshit.

Sounds to me like you watched Farenheit 9-11 and actually believed those lies. :bangin:
 

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I am not an Arab, but many might say I am arab looking, that's because many in non-Arab muslim countries are decendents of Arab missionaries who went there hundreds of years ago. So you really inconvinience many more people than just people of Arab nationalities. Then you got all the Arab Christians who look no different than Arab Muslims, they are also victim of this.
I will say it for the last time, even if all the Saudis and all the arabs even stop becoming terrorists, terrorism will still not stop as long as there are American troops in Saudi Arabia, because Saudi Arabia where Mecca and Medina are, considered Holy by all the Muslims of the world, the sentiments are really strong in this regard. I despise terrorism but I whole heartedly support all the movements that will bring and end to the American occupation of that region.
 

justin syder

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I whole heartedly support all the movements that will bring and end to the American occupation of that region.
Since when did it become an occupation???

This is new to me.
 

Zoomie

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Bitko, I've got the same problem you do. Makes air travel very anonying and frustrating. I hate going to the airport now.
 

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justin syder said:
PLEASE explain how politicians are benefiting from the whole war on terror. How are they getting richer??
Come on Justin you know better than that. Every War costs your Gouvernement billions of dollars in form of Equipment, Weapons etc. all these Products are munufactured in America. This guarantees the arms industry billions worth of orders.
The arms industry needs to push production and development which better way to accomplish that exists besides lobbying.

justin syder said:
Sounds to me like you watched Farenheit 9-11 and actually believed those lies. :bangin:
This is so full of bullshit. Europeans are generally interested in world politics.I can only speak for myself and I can tell you that Fahrenheit delivered NOTHING that hasn't been discussed in the German public/media before.

What I found astonishing though is that you asked for a european insight , i told you what most of us think and you reacted totally agressive.
What's up with that isn't everyone entitled to their own opinion anymore.
 

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justin syder said:
PLEASE explain how politicians are benefiting from the whole war on terror. How are they getting richer??
It's not about wealth in terms of money...it's wealth in terms of power. The objective of every person put in power is to acquire more of it. You should know this...

Look at the personal freedoms we're giving up in the name of 'safety.'
 

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Look at the personal freedoms we're giving up in the name of 'safety.'
Not much, how else do you expect to get intelligence? This is why Sept 11 happened in the first place. Im not one to blame things on an administration but Clinton DID cut CIA funding.

it's wealth in terms of power. The objective of every person put in power is to acquire more of it. You should know this...
Sure all politicians are driven by insatiable apetite for greed, wealth and more power. :roll:

Come on Justin you know better than that. Every War costs your Gouvernement billions of dollars in form of Equipment, Weapons etc. all these Products are munufactured in America. This guarantees the arms industry billions worth of orders.
The arms industry needs to push production and development which better way to accomplish that exists besides lobbying.
Whether you know this or not, the Military is ALWAYS buying new weapons whether war is on or not. At the top of tax payer expense is Military funding and has been that way for a really long time. Its why no country has declared war on us since WW2 when that crazy guy in your country lost his marbles.

Speaking of your country and Europe, the do-gooders of the world, what have they done to help?

NONE!

Your countrymen and other Euros complain and whine about our "occupation" in Iraq and Afghanistan but failed to see the progress we made. Afghanistan has elected their own president and in two weeks time so will the people of Iraq.

What has Europe done with its occupied territories. Well The French, Dutch, English, Belgians, Spanish and Italians have had a hand in plundering of Africa (and other countries) for its raw materials and created a number of third World countries plagued with disease and coruption.

Heres a list,

Belgians

Congo (Zaire 1971-1997), Rwanda

France

Algeria, Benin, Central African Republic, Chad, Cote d'Ivoire, Madagascar, Niger, Senegal, Tunisia

Germany and France

Cameroon

France and Spain

Morocco

Germany and Great Britian

Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Tanzania

Great Britain

Africa- Botswana, Egypt, Ghana, Kenya, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, South Afriaca, Sudan, Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe

Asia- Bangledesh, Brunei, Fiji, Hong Kong, Pakistan, Sri Lanka

Italy

Libya, Somalia

I took an Imperialism class and if you think any of this false be my guest.

To criticize the US for "occupying" is an insult. Germany, Japan, soon Iraq and Afghanistan have benefitted from our "occupation".

What I found astonishing though is that you asked for a european insight , i told you what most of us think and you reacted totally agressive.
What's up with that isn't everyone entitled to their own opinion anymore.
I dont have a problem with you stating your opinion. I have strong opinions myself and in no way do I want to mute your opinion. I just feel that most of Europe and the anti-american sediment is based on ignorance.

Right afte 9-11 some arabs actually believed 4,000 Jews didnt show up that day for work. :?
 
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