In U.S., 44 Percent Say Restrict Muslims

freakster_991

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so justin you dont know how the world feels about this...When watching TV, we see muslims arabs and its links all bein racially abused..i am muslim and sumtimes its the ignorance of the american people and media..they do potray us as being bad...wat about inhumanities being done by none arabs,by the government to other countries..You see the state of iraq now...when saddam was in power ..ppl were afraid to do anything ..and peace was maintained....now robberies rapes and everything bad goin on....ppl are now more afraid to live...their lives in danger...over 200,000 lives lost....no one nation is helping them....tsunami happened.....and everybody is donating...natural disasters which cannot be stopped we will help....man made disasters goin on,,,although we can stop it..we wont...or afraid too....well lets just say now the american public is very misinformed or uneducated or misinformed by the media....lets just hope next elections..the american public will be smart and make the right choice
 

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justin syder said:
To criticize the US for "occupying" is an insult. Germany, Japan, soon Iraq and Afghanistan have benefitted from our "occupation".
That's true but the German people in contrast the Iraqi people knew they did something wrong when they started to march down european streets to kill everyone who didn't fit in their "concept" .
The element of guilt was a strong motivation to accept American troops in Germany. Everyone knew it was their fault and the Americans showed us that there is an alternative to nationalism.
Now tell me what did the average Iraqi do to deserve Bombardment ?
 

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swek said:
Now tell me what did the average Iraqi do to deserve Bombardment ?
Saddam deserved bombardment...but I still think we should never have gone.
 

justin syder

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Now tell me what did the average Iraqi do to deserve Bombardment ?
You obviously have no clue as to what he did while dictator of Iraq.

Saddam deserved bombardment...but I still think we should never have gone.
Of course, we wouldnt have dead troops or have had terrorists attack us in Iraq. We should have let the UN deal with him, as affective as they are. :roll:
 

justin syder

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so justin you dont know how the world feels about this...When watching TV, we see muslims arabs and its links all bein racially abused..i am muslim and sumtimes its the ignorance of the american people and media..they do potray us as being bad...wat about inhumanities being done by none arabs,by the government to other countries..You see the state of iraq now...when saddam was in power ..ppl were afraid to do anything ..and peace was maintained....now robberies rapes and everything bad goin on....ppl are now more afraid to live...their lives in danger...over 200,000 lives lost....no one nation is helping them....tsunami happened.....and everybody is donating...natural disasters which cannot be stopped we will help....man made disasters goin on,,,although we can stop it..we wont...or afraid too....well lets just say now the american public is very misinformed or uneducated or misinformed by the media....lets just hope next elections..the american public will be smart and make the right choice
freakster, please, PLEASE keep any misinformed opinions to yourself and post facts.

I take time to post accurate information and you should do the same. Id like to know how you got the idea that Iraq is worse off.

I bet you dont see how many Iraqis praise and love american troops for liberating them. I bet you dont know that we have the same number of countries involved in helping Iraq as we did the first time around. I bet you dont know that they will elect their leader, voice their opinion for the first time, something that Saddam never let them do and even KILLED those that tried to protest.

There are bad things but the country is being changed from an oppressive dictatorcship to a democratic state.

And as far as american media portraying Arab Muslism in a bad light I say this.

Take the worst channel with the most anti-muslim message and compare it to Al-Jezzera and I think that there is more hatred and violence and racism coming out of Al-Jazeera than our worst or most anti-muslim media channel or news anchors.

As a muslim why dont YOU do some good to erase that bad image Al-Jazeera creates?

Why dont YOU protest against their hateful messages? Im sure you wont as any attempt to would probably put your life at risk.

Why dont you protest or mention that most of the Arab nations have contributed very few amounts of money to the Tsunami relief? Sending money to fellow muslims in the area seems to have a low priority.



Australia $764 million over five years. Also sent five air force transport planes with supplies and medical specialists to Sumatra, and two 15-member emergency medical teams and 12 police to Phuket.
Austria 1 million euros ($1.4 million) in aid to the countries hit.
Belgium Military plane due to stop at Dubai to load most of its cargo -- UNICEF aid such as tents, vaccines.
Britain Pledged $96 million.
Canada $67 million
China 520 million yuan ($63 million), a sharp increase from its initial offer of 20 million yuan.
Czech Republic Sent drinking water and medicine to Sri Lanka and Thailand; pledged 10 million crowns ($446,000).
Denmark $76 million
Egypt Egyptian Red Crescent Society sending a plane with 500,000 Egyptian pounds ($81,000) worth of medicine and other aid as initial step.

European Union $132 million.
Finland $6.2 million
France $67 million
Germany $680 million over three to five years.
Greece $1.34 million
Ireland $13 million
Israel Sent one medical team to Sri Lanka, one to Thailand.
Italy $95 million.
Japan $500 million, sent three navy vessels to Thailand to help rescue survivors.

Kuwait Pledged aid supplies worth $2 million, sent $100,000 immediate aid.
Netherlands $32 million.
Norway $183 million.
North Korea $150,000
Poland Earmarked 1 million zlotys ($336,000) for Polish NGOs involved in relief.
Qatar $25 million.
Saudi Arabia $30 million aid package.
Singapore $1.2 million to global effort, military medical teams and supplies ready to fly to Indonesia.
Slovakia Sent plane with drinking water, tents and medicine to Sri Lanka; aid worth 6.6 million Slovak crowns ($231,660).

Slovenia Donating 20 million tolars ($113,500) of aid through International Red Cross and Crescent.
South Korea $50 million.
Spain $68 million. It also sent aircraft to Sri Lanka with first aid, sanitary equipment and 19 volunteers.
Sweden $75.5 million
Switzerland $23 million.
Taiwan $50.52 million
United Arab Emirates $20 million
United States $350 million. Pentagon ordered 12 vessels to region to aid with immediate relief efforts
International Committee of the Red Cross Cargo plane flying from Kenya to Sri Lanka carrying 105 tons of supplies, provide aid to 150,000 people in north and east. Trying to raise more than 50 million Swiss francs ($44 million).
International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Has dispensed initial one million Swiss franc grant for relief efforts and launched appeal for 7.5 million francs.
IMF Intends to provide assistance, no specific pledges.
UNHCR Initially distributing $380,000 of non-food relief items, including plastic sheeting, clothing, kitchen sets.
UNICEF Delivered 50 water tanks to southern India, 45-tonne shipment of water purification tablets and water systems due to reach Sri Lanka on Thursday. WHO and UNICEF said they were providing four emergency kits to Indonesia to cover 40,000 people for three months, providing shelter, food and clothing.
U.N. World Food Program Sends 168 tons of commodities to Sri Lanka, plus more than 4,000 tons of rice, wheat flour, lentils and sugar, enough to provide 500,000 people with emergency rations for two weeks.
U.N. Development Program Provided $100,000 each to Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia, the Maldives and Thailand to help assess damage and coordinate emergency needs.
U.N. Population Fund Earmarked up to $1 million and extra staff to help health needs of pregnant and nursing women.


Australia has contributed MORE than all Arab nations combined. The same nations with Kings and Billions of dollars in oil revenue.

But of course freakster, you would rather find out how many Iraqis were killed today so that you can make the evil USA look bad. :roll: :roll:
 

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justin syder said:
Of course, we wouldnt have dead troops or have had terrorists attack us in Iraq. We should have let the UN deal with him, as affective as they are. :roll:
Oh, I'm not going to argue that the U.N. isn't a complete waste of money and resources...but I just find the whole situation we have in Iraq, just...wrong. :(
 

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justin syder said:
I bet you dont see how many Iraqis praise and love american troops for liberating them.
You're saying that based on what you see on TV. I know a number of Iraqis and they really do not want the Americans there. And I know these ppl in person, not from a forum or news channel.

Your government is using the same media tricks as the apartheid government. Do you know many young whites had no idea about the suffering of the blacks?? And this was happening under their noses. Iraq is a world away from you.

And as far as american media portraying Arab Muslism in a bad light I say this.

Take the worst channel with the most anti-muslim message and compare it to Al-Jezzera and I think that there is more hatred and violence and racism coming out of Al-Jazeera than our worst or most anti-muslim media channel or news anchors.

As a muslim why dont YOU do some good to erase that bad image Al-Jazeera creates?

Why dont YOU protest against their hateful messages? Im sure you wont as any attempt to would probably put your life at risk.
You're again making the assumption all Arabs are Muslims and all Muslims are Arab. And since when do you speak Arabic?? Thats the only way you can get any idea about what al-jazeera presents. Are you again basing this on short snippets you see on CNN and such??
 

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You're saying that based on what you see on TV. I know a number of Iraqis and they really do not want the Americans there. And I know these ppl in person, not from a forum or news channel.
Then ask that person if he wants Saddam back in power, ask him if the Americans made a mistake by taking Saddam out.

You would be foolish to assume that the transition would go smoothly and without robbery or rape. Things willget better and the election in a few days is part of it. Did Saddam hold free election?

I garantee this though, Iraq will be like Germany and Japan 30 years from now and you will have nothing to say except find something else to criticize us for.

u're again making the assumption all Arabs are Muslims and all Muslims are Arab. And since when do you speak Arabic?? Thats the only way you can get any idea about what al-jazeera presents. Are you again basing this on short snippets you see on CNN and such??
You are soo correct. Ive beem lied to by news over hear and Al-Jezeera doesnt present anti-Jewish propoganda or anti-USA media reporting.

I guess the recent report that I heard about the people on Al-Jazerra blaming the Tsunami on infidels in those countries and not the actual earthquake was just false. :roll:

YOU tell me what Al-Jazeera reports are about then. Since YOU speak Arabic pick 5 reports and translate them to me hear. Ill use a web translator and will translate the text to see if you accurately and unbiasedly translate every single word because Im sure there are some anti-Jew or anti-American sediments in all their reporting.

PROVE ME WRONG!!
 

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Don't US media promote anti-muslim and anti-arab propaganda?? All depends on what your initial view is.

I don't speak Arabic. I'm Muslim, but not Arab. And the problem with translating a language is that messages cannot be conveyed properly and can usually be taken out of context, especially with web translators. I've spent quite a bit of time laughing at the poor translations provided by so-called translators. Example, "warm" and "hot" are similar, but they do not describe heat to the same intensity. If you spoke more than one language you'd know this.

The older Iraqis remember the last time the US helped instate a government. And guess who they got. None other than the evil Saddam. And don't you think I asked him which he prefers. The situation in that country was far more complex than you imagine. CNN and Fox use simple language to make everything black and white and simple.

30 years from now, who's to say the US won't be removing Zarqawi from power in a similar manner, or whoever "wins" the election.

And as for proving you wrong, it is unlikely that you will change your mind if presented with proof.

And how can you trust anything that Republicans produce. Didn't they just say that the information they had on WMDs was wrong. That doesn't make you question everything else they feed you. First the reason for war was WMDs, now it's Saddam.

If you guys really want to establish democracy, go to Zimbabwe next. Mugabe withhods food and medicine from ppl becuase they support the oppostion, imprisons all journalists he doesn't like, foreign or domestic, and has also been in Power for close to 30 years now. It's almost like he modelled himself on Saddam.

Or can Africa just rot??
 

justin syder

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I've spent quite a bit of time laughing at the poor translations provided by so-called translators. Example, "warm" and "hot" are similar, but they do not describe heat to the same intensity. If you spoke more than one language you'd know this.
i speak spanish as well and know exactly what you mean in terms or translations but the main idea comes across most of the time. I am still waiting to be proven wrong on the account that Al-Jaeera doesnt have an anti-Isreali/Jew and anti-American agenda.

Don't US media promote anti-muslim and anti-arab propaganda?? All depends on what your initial view is.
Not to my knowledge no. There is anti-Muslim sediment of course but thats due to ignorance of Christian extremists and post 9-11 U.S.

I only have a problem with Muslims because of their vague or weak attempt at trying to get rid of the extreme element in their religion. If some extreme Christians started bombing places in the name of God and justifying it as it being a sin that must not go unpunished, you better believe Ill be organizing with my church to help authorities and not have the world or most ppl percieve my religion as violent due to the acts of an insane few.

30 years from now, who's to say the US won't be removing Zarqawi from power in a similar manner, or whoever "wins" the election.
Yes and we even predicted that he would be an evil dictator the minute we put him there, we did it knowing we would spend two wars and lifes of troops

Predicting that Saddam would turn to be the dictator he was is like saying someone know the Tsunami was coming.

The situation in that country was far more complex than you imagine. CNN and Fox use simple language to make everything black and white and simple.
I understand the scope of it all. It is more complex but to put it concisely, they will be democratic and if anything should go wrong with the leader THEY elect then they will only deal with him for the time he is in office. They will run things, the people of Iraq.

Secondly, Zarqawi will be a dead terrorist in a matter of time. Just like Uda and Qusay.

And as for proving you wrong, it is unlikely that you will change your mind if presented with proof.
Try me. Ive taken your opinion in consideration but I state mine. Its not about debating until one side changes their opinion, its about expressing ideas, opinions and facts to see two sides of something then have an opinion based on the discussion. I think Iraq will be a good country 30yrs from now ;) .

If you guys really want to establish democracy, go to Zimbabwe next. Mugabe withhods food and medicine from ppl becuase they support the oppostion, imprisons all journalists he doesn't like, foreign or domestic, and has also been in Power for close to 30 years now. It's almost like he modelled himself on Saddam.

Or can Africa just rot??
See with the US its a double standard. If we dont do something we are yelled at by the Euros and others for not doing enough. Then if we DO decide to help we are called the world police. :thumbsdown:

Either way this is how I see it, we tried to help in Africa before and it didnt work. Secondly, EUROPE created that problem NOT US. We never colonized any country there or left a corrupt govt. Blame us for making a mistake that could not be forseen in putting Saddam in power but atleast things are better there now. Democracy will help the country to flourish. I cant say the same for some Euro countries that left their colonies in dissaray. Take a look at the list, most countries there are third world.
 

justin syder

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Allawi, not Zarqawi. My mistake. I'm not the first to get them mixed up.
Another note on that, even IF by some crazy way that terrorist were to be elected he would be there for a term and would not be there as a dictator but as a president.

If your Iraqi friend doesnt like the current situation then tell him to rally a protest. ;)

Im sure he was able to do that under Saddam.
 

chaos386

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justin syder said:
Why dont you protest or mention that most of the Arab nations have contributed very few amounts of money to the Tsunami relief? Sending money to fellow muslims in the area seems to have a low priority.


Australia $764 million over five years. Also sent five air force transport
Egypt Egyptian Red Crescent Society sending a plane with 500,000 Egyptian pounds ($81,000) worth of medicine and other aid as initial step.
European Union $132 million.
Japan $500 million, sent three navy vessels to Thailand to help rescue survivors.
Kuwait Pledged aid supplies worth $2 million, sent $100,000 immediate aid.
Qatar $25 million.
Saudi Arabia $30 million aid package.
United Arab Emirates $20 million
United States $350 million. Pentagon ordered 12 vessels to region to aid with immediate relief efforts

Australia has contributed MORE than all Arab nations combined. The same nations with Kings and Billions of dollars in oil revenue.

But of course freakster, you would rather find out how many Iraqis were killed today so that you can make the evil USA look bad. :roll: :roll:
Seriously, what is your problem with arab nations, why are you mudslinging here? Let's look at the figures with population, huh?

The US donated $1.19 per person
Kuwait donated $0.89 per person
Saudi Arabia donated $1.16 per person (and total donations reached $87million, not $30million, but that includes private donations generated by a telethon hosted by the government)
U.A.E. donated $7.93 per person!
Qatar donated a whopping $29.76 per person!!!

Yeah, it sounds good to say "they have billions of dollars in oil revenue!!!" but it's incredibly hateful just to gloss over the fact that the US's GDP is over 38 TIMES MORE than Saudi Arabia's. So the fact that the US didn't give over 38 times the donation of Saudi Arabia somehow makes KSA and other arab countries bad?

And you assume Al-Jazeera is anti-Jewish and anti-US just because it's a news company from the Middle East? THIS is what people mean by anti-arab news! They have a website in english, why don't you visit it first before you make a judgement, instead of shooting off at the mouth.
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage
You were doing so well in this thread, only to come up with crap like this... :thumbsdown:
 

Jostyrostelli

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quote Justin: "Netherlands $32 million. "

Where do you got this info from? The Dutch people donated about ?130 million euros, is still increasing. I wonder how accurate those other numbers are...
 

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And you assume Al-Jazeera is anti-Jewish and anti-US just because it's a news company from the Middle East? THIS is what people mean by anti-arab news! They have a website in english, why don't you visit it first before you make a judgement, instead of shooting off at the mouth.
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8245212D-39CC-4E6E-80FF-2E1F29F72BC5.htm

US and British occupation of Iraq is regarded as the re-emergence of the old colonialist practices of the western empires in some quarters.
Will Iraq turn into a new Vietnam eventually bringing the US to its senses ... or perhaps to its knees?
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8B6EB4AA-E7C3-49AC-9F3E-A70603635511.htm

Just the simple act of surviving through the day under occupation requires enormous resilience in the face of a superior war machine, supported by the world's single superpower.
How can they say that? Where are all of the funds from Saudi and other Arab charities? Where did they end up? Especially when average Palenstinians live in slums and poor conditions but these charities dont help out the common Palestinian.

Im sure it gets "lost" and ends up funding Hamas and other terror groups. Then, of course, NO Palestinian leader has done a concerted effort to stop terrorism. I gaurantee that the minute Hamas, Hezbolla and other terror groups say they will stop ALL terror attacks THEN Palestinians will get their Sovereign nation and Israeli's will no longer carry out raids, attacks and occupations. Until now Israel has been in defense of itsself since her creation. Arab nations attacking her and constantly tryin to "drive the Jews into the ocean", how else do you think they are suppose to defend themselves.

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=6768

Graner was convicted and this incident is an isolated one. Rather than let this issue close, Al-Jazeera feels the need to re-open old wounds and try to insight more hatred against US soldiers.

The victim in this story obviously didn't know that under Saddam, Kurds in the north were killed with biological and chemical weapons and that most of Saddam's prisoners were killed. But of course that pales in comparision to a one-time incident by some foolish and ignorant troops. :roll:

I'll post any other articles and future articles in this thread to show what kind of news reporting comes out of Al-Jazeera.
 

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quote Justin: "Netherlands $32 million. "

Where do you got this info from? The Dutch people donated about ?130 million euros, is still increasing. I wonder how accurate those other numbers are...

MSNBC News Services
Updated: 9:08 p.m. ET Dec. 31, 2004

:oops: Sincere apology as I used an old articl, UNINTENTIONALLY. I overlooked the date and did realize that it seemed odd (outdated), the $ amount for some nations. :oops:


PS- chaos386, I dont hate arabs, Muslims or you. Dont feel that my opinions are an attack against Muslims or Arab nations. I feel that you took my response in that light.
 

Zoomie

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This is a war of ideologies. No amount of logic or stitistics will end it. These ideological wars can only end in one way. When the extremists on either side have been eliminated.

This is my last post on the subject. I only entered this thread because of the dangerous suggestion that ppl should be restricted based on race. I grew up in South Africa so know all too well what can happen when ideas such as this become acceptable. Soon, we'll be screening certain ppl for certain crimes based on their race.

Every argument and counter-argument on this forum has been repeated on nearly every forum that allow ppl to disucss this sort of thing. Does everyone really believe their opinion is wholly their own not influenced by outside forces. If your opinion truly was unique, no one else would have it. We should stop fooling ourselves into thinking that politicians of any kind never use propaganda to promote their own interests. If you support them, then their PR machine has worked on you.

Bye
 

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This is a war of ideologies.
Good vs. Bad

These ideological wars can only end in one way. When the extremists on either side have been eliminated.
So getting rid of terrorists would label Bush and FBI, CIA extremists?? I'd like to see the Muslim world help in getting rid of Islama-fascism rather than play both sides of the fence.

Your thinking is warped, Id like to know who you consider both sides of the extremists. Im not so sure that you'd agree that the terrorists are one of them.

I NEVER claim to be right or win any argument or discussion here. You probably have not been following all the topics or just feel the need to assume that an exchange of ideas and opinions HAVE to result in a change of opinion or "victory".


Does everyone really believe their opinion is wholly their own not influenced by outside forces.
To say something like that is being a bit ridiculous. No one, including me, state that their opinion is unbiased or truely of their own thinking. Youd have to live under a rock to have an opinion like that.

We should stop fooling ourselves into thinking that politicians of any kind never use propaganda to promote their own interests.
Feel free to take more jabs on your way out. :roll:

This is my last post on the subject.
Sorry to hear that.
 

Zoomie

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Don't be naive. Debate of this sort has to result a solution in which both parties have to compromise.

Unfortunately, no one is prepared to move, and the discussion becomes repetitive. Why do you think the UN is so ineffective.

Good vs Bad???

Depends which side of the fence you're on doesn't it. You think the terrorists see themselves as extremists???

If i thought terrorists weren't extremists, do you think I'd call them terrorists. I often think "now why the HELL did you do that??" when I see what these ppl do.

I had to reply cos justin syder practically called me an extremist terrorist.

Your thinking is warped, Id like to know who you consider both sides of the extremists. Im not so sure that you'd agree that the terrorists are one of them.
 

justin syder

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Don't be naive. Debate of this sort has to result a solution in which both parties have to compromise.
When I debate anyone I dont set a time table or set limit on how long I'll debate because I might get "tired" of doing it. If you feel it is bothersome or don't see me being sympathetic to Palestinians or those poor ppl that HAVE no choice but to blow themselves up it doesn't mean you should decide not continue debating.

By all means Im not forcing you to defend your opinion or convince me of anything but if you don't reply then thats fine by me.

I had to reply cos justin syder practically called me an extremist terrorist.
Yes, that's right, Im the bad guy now.

Depends which side of the fence you're on doesn't it. You think the terrorists see themselves as extremists???
Im sure they think they are the best thing to sliced bread for the Palestinians and Muslims. However I was speaking on MY point of view and the US's side of this in which the terrorists were the extremists, the bad guys.

Why do you think the UN is so ineffective.
This is a whole other story. It doesnt take a genuis to see that Saddam was deveoping WMDs in the 90's and the UN SOMEHOW failed to comromise on how to punish Saddam. A useless organization unless there is natural disaster or something. They are not hardliners when it comes to political matters just as a parent who cannot seem to control or punish their out of control children.

I think for now this discussion is done but I am always up for one if you feel the need to discuss something.
 
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