In which Episode is the Pontiac Firebird TRANS AM WS6?

Mischief007

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Urban Sombrero said:
I'm sorry, but a lot of you are just plain wrong about Camaro's/Firebirds

They are not womens cars at all and they are both basically the same. You have to get the V8's though, others are no good.

The Z28, T/A, T/A WS6, SS all have an LS1 V8 factory rated at 300 hp but they were underrated from the factory so they put down 300 at the wheels, so it's about 320-340 at the flywheel. The LS1 is one of the best engines on the market if you want big power for cheap. They go very fast and can smoke sports cars twice the price. They can run quarters in the 14's all day. And believe it or not, they DO handle well.

They are great cars, I'm saving money to get one. Best deal on the market. At least in the U.S.

Trust me, I may no very little about Bit Torrent, but I know a lot about cars. Go to streetfire.net if you want proof these cars are fast. I'm a member there, my name is Prodigious.
Good to hear that I'm not the only fan of F-bodies :).
 
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No man, I love them.

I get so angry when people insult American cars, like on Top Gear. It's the only thing I don't like about the show, they act very ignorant and elitist. It was funny when they first did it, but now it's annoying. American cars are made to appeal to the American market, not Europe's. But you see all the praise when an American car company makes a model for Europe. Keep an open mind people.
 

zenkidori

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dude they insult American cars because most of them suck. yeah the highways in the midwest are straight, and good ol boys like drag racing, but go anywhere there are mountains and you'll find some of the twisties roads anywhere, and there are quite a few club racers who prefer a car that turns to one that can go straight for 1/4 mile. I'm not saying that all american cars can't turn and are rubbish, but our iconic cars that seem to embody american motors are pretty bad. NASCAR and drag racing are seriously lame IMO. Perhaps the reason that import cars sell so well is because they offer a better driving experience. I have driven a few generations of firebird, camaro and mustang and I have always left pretty unimpressed.
 
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I'm not saying they are the best, but they seem unfair to them at times. They started out praising the 300C in one of their tests only to turn around and bash it relentlessly because it wasn't sporty enough. The 300C isn't meant to be sporty, it's meant to be a comfortable car for the family. In the U.S. we don't race around mountain roads at breakneck speeds, our cars can handle what they need to handle at the speeds that are appropriate for our country.

If they wanted to test a sporty 300C, they should have chosen the SRT-8, it would have been faster than either of the other cars. It's not like we can't make cars that handle like imports, we do. It's just there isn't a huge demand for them by people besides kids and some driving enthusiasts and they cost a bit more. Nowadays we are starting to make such cars because the market is growing.

Most importantly, American cars are affordable and that's important to most Americans. They may have some drawbacks, but for the money they can't be beat. Besides, most "imports" aren't imports at all. They Japanese cars here in the US aren't the same as their counterparts in Japan, they are made in U.S. factories and some are owned by U.S. companies. It's as ridiculous to prejudge a car based on the country of origin as it is to do the same to human beings.
 
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One more thing: don't let stereotypes get to you. American cars can handle too.

And as for having inefficient engines, that's ridiculous. We have plenty of cars that get great mileage. We were pioneers in electric powered vehicles and hybrids.

Yes, the 8.3 litre Viper V10 is huge and only puts out 500 hp (but 525 torque). It should put out more. And it can. With all that displacement, it's easy to modify these engines to put out enormous amounts of power. You can triple their stock horsepower and then some. The only problem is it doesn't come from the factory with a more suitable amount of power. That's what John Hennesey is for. :D
 

zenkidori

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Urban Sombrero said:
In the U.S. we don't race around mountain roads at breakneck speeds.
I do.

It's just there isn't a huge demand for them by people besides kids and some driving enthusiasts and they cost a bit more. Nowadays we are starting to make such cars because the market is growing.
is that why sales of Detroit iron have fallen compared to sporty compacts and japanese sports cars?
Besides, most "imports" aren't imports at all. They Japanese cars here in the US aren't the same as their counterparts in Japan, they are made in U.S. factories and some are owned by U.S. companies. It's as ridiculous to prejudge a car based on the country of origin as it is to do the same to human beings.
Aside from every japanese car I've owned saying made in Japan, you can judge a car by where it comes from, because cars from certain makes have certain design philosophy attached to them. Even if it's built here, it's designed with the company's philosophy in mind. Lately there have been a few good cars rolling of domestic assembly lines, but they seem to be playing catch up and the end result is a car that just feels like nobody's heart was really in it. It feels like a car that had to be made rather than one that wanted to be made.
 
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Then you shouldn't be allowed on the roads.

is that why sales of Detroit iron have fallen compared to sporty compacts and japanese sports cars?
First, source. Second, define what cars. Third, besides GM, American domestic car sales have been doing immesurably better than Japanese sports car. What are you on? You may see a few 350z's, S2000's and Evo around town, but it's nothing compared to, say, the amount of Ford F150s or Chrysler Minivans. Now, Japanese are still making money because they don't expect to sell as many, so they don't produce as many. Domestics are made in high volume.

Aside from every japanese car I've owned saying made in Japan, you can judge a car by where it comes from, because cars from certain makes have certain design philosophy attached to them. Even if it's built here, it's designed with the company's philosophy in mind. Lately there have been a few good cars rolling of domestic assembly lines, but they seem to be playing catch up and the end result is a car that just feels like nobody's heart was really in it. It feels like a car that had to be made rather than one that wanted to be made.
Are you serious? Do you know any of this or are you just making this up as you go along? Honestly. I know what you are thinking because a lot of mis-informed folks think this, but as you learn more about cars and the business you see things differently. The only philosophy of large companies is to make money, Japanese companies included.
 

zenkidori

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a ford F150 and a chrysler minivan can be compared to a 350Z? What are YOU on? hahaha. :bangin:
The only philosophy of large companies is to make money
ok, so different makes don't have a standard design philosphy they adhere to when designing sports cars? That must be why the 911 has changed ever so much over the years, and Honda doesn't constantly make high revving, reliable, small engines, or why OHV V8s are a mainstay of American muscle. Yeah, that must explain it.
 

MasterEvilAce

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Urban Sombrero said:
I'm sorry, but a lot of you are just plain wrong about Camaro's/Firebirds

They are not womens cars at all and they are both basically the same. You have to get the V8's though, others are no good.

The Z28, T/A, T/A WS6, SS all have an LS1 V8 factory rated at 300 hp but they were underrated from the factory so they put down 300 at the wheels, so it's about 320-340 at the flywheel. The LS1 is one of the best engines on the market if you want big power for cheap. They go very fast and can smoke sports cars twice the price. They can run quarters in the 14's all day. And believe it or not, they DO handle well.

They are great cars, I'm saving money to get one. Best deal on the market. At least in the U.S.

Trust me, I may no very little about Bit Torrent, but I know a lot about cars. Go to streetfire.net if you want proof these cars are fast. I'm a member there, my name is Prodigious.
Correct, however they don't run 14's. The car in my avatar is a 2001 Camaro SS, it's listed as 320hp, I think.. usually they dyno around 300 to 310. They run low 13's, and have been known to dip into the 12's with a very good driver.

As for handling, I believe they handle very well. Around a race track, they probably won't do so well because of the weight. And obviously, as compared with Porsches, etc :rollseyes: There are a lot of cars out there that can handle better, but people get confused at what the purpose of these cars are. But WRX,EVO, etc. can handle better! Yeah, but those are built to rally. BMWs handle better! Yes, they cost a hell of a lot more, too. Miatas, etc! Yeah, those weigh a hell of a lot less, have less power, and are two-seaters. On the street, however.. you don't exactly have race track bends, so it handles just dandy, in my opinion.

Modding is always an option, too.


Aside from every japanese car I've owned saying made in Japan, you can judge a car by where it comes from, because cars from certain makes have certain design philosophy attached to them[/quote]
Every? Can you say biased? Yes for design philosophy... however you're reaching into the stereotype realm.

zenkidori said:
dude they insult American cars because most of them suck. yeah the highways in the midwest are straight, and good ol boys like drag racing, but go anywhere there are mountains and you'll find some of the twisties roads anywhere, and there are quite a few club racers who prefer a car that turns to one that can go straight for 1/4 mile. I'm not saying that all american cars can't turn and are rubbish, but our iconic cars that seem to embody american motors are pretty bad. NASCAR and drag racing are seriously lame IMO. Perhaps the reason that import cars sell so well is because they offer a better driving experience. I have driven a few generations of firebird, camaro and mustang and I have always left pretty unimpressed.
Most of them suck? Again, biased exaggerations. I'd venture to definitely say MOST American cars arn't design to
1) Have high amounts of horsepower
2) Take a 90degree turn at 60mph.
3) Carry a small amount of luggage/people

Consider this.. Americans are currently into huge vehicles. We're talking SUVs, trucks, vans.. I can assure you, that other car manufacturers definitely are not trying to cater to Americans. I think Europeans could agree that the Euro cars are definitely designed to fit to European roads and standards. BMWs are built for luxury, and technology. Porsche is built to handle. American cars are generally for ego maniacs (SIZE), currently. (As pointed out earlier).

Does that mean all American cars suck and can't handle? No. It just means the cars weren't designed for you. The corvette is sheer proof that America can build a ballsy beast that handles as well as cars twice its price. The Ford GT is proof we can build a car that Jeremy likes (he's European, you know). It's just generally NOT on America's mind. That's not what the average family (which averages 4 or 5 family members) can use.

As far as gas mileage, the new 7 liter Corvette Z06 is rated at 16 city/26 hw. That's pretty good for 505HP, I'd have to say. The 6 liter base Vette is 18/28 with 400hp, if I recall correctly. I drive a Camaro, 5.7 Liters. It gets 20mpg city, 28 highway (That's real-life testing, not just EPA ratings). I'm 18, I drive pretty fast, and because of this, 20 mpg is definitely NOT bad at all. However, if you compare it to a 4-cylinder, of course it's nothing to brag about.

What I'm saying is, stop bashing American cars because you don't like them. Not everybody is into the greatest handling, fastest thing. Not everybody has 40 grand to blow on a car.

I know of quite a few shitty Euro cars that TopGear has reviewed. Your ideas are skewed and biased, I have to say. And it's obvious from hearing you talking.



Oh, and last but not least.. I'd like to point out the SMART car. Who designed that? Europeans. (I'm still mad at you guys for that one.) This is just further proof that many people are blinded by their opinions.

To sum up:
Porsche is not the only German car company in Germany. Stop thinking about only the top brands. Stop thinking everything has to handle like one.
Americans are not the only people that have designed cars that nobody likes. SMART :thumbsdown:


(Shit I just realized Urban Sombrero basically said what I just said :p)
Oh well. I've got your back, Urban. :thumbsup:
 

No Boss

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Urban Sombrero said:
but I know a lot about cars. Go to streetfire.net if you want proof these cars are fast.
You made some good points and a good arguement in your other posts, and MasterFace, or what ever his name is, is further supporting your arguement....

But i know myself and many other people on this board lost all respect for what ever you have to say after this comment. Many MANY people on forums like these all over the interwebs look at streetfire as the internet mall. A place for thousands of 13 yearolds to hang out and talk about cars they only can dream of. Exampe of your average message board on streetfire:

Title:"850hp Comaro does 8secs, beats Skyline"
Comments:
-"0H SHIZZ dAt was 5ICK1!1"
-"ShaW, see ya'll, 'merican muscle is teh Roxo0rz"
-"PLZ, WAiT TILL I see this guy. He lives by mne and I SEE him all the time in front of th MALL!. ill race him in my CIVIC, 5 TURBOS, CAMS, 1500HP....Vtec"
-"U ALL DON'T no wut yer talkin' bout! mY gfs M3 will pwn thAt piece O' shait"

...and the list goes on, I didn't say it hink American cars blow, or anything like that. But if you want to make a serious point, don't cite Streetfire.net (a.k.a. "Puberty.com") as a source.
 

eurotrash

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Who cares if a car has a V8 if it has the interior out of a 95 pontiac sunfire, those cars are a monument to how clueless GM is. Gawdy and brash on the outside and soviet and grey on the inside.
 

MasterEvilAce

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eurotrash said:
Who cares if a car has a V8 if it has the interior out of a 95 pontiac sunfire, those cars are a monument to how clueless GM is. Gawdy and brash on the outside and soviet and grey on the inside.
I'm not sure if you just have a thing against color codes, or if it's something deeper than that. It's not that they are clueless, as far as design, they're not really doing much wrong. I really don't think Civics, Corollas, and Integras look all that good, interior or exterior. They're nothing revolutionary, they're just... ordinary. Yet, they sell very very well.

Why is that? It's because American cars are unfairly bashed left and right, by other countries AND by our own. If Toyota has a recall because they explode, our media is like, "Toyota has a small problem which they are fixing." If GM, Ford, or Chrysler has a seat-belt recall, it turns into a class action lawsuit.

The desire to own American isn't there as much as it used to be. Cars sell more on reputation than on anything else, and with the crap that American car manufacturers take, it's no wonder.

Yeah, I do think some American cars are ugly. What the hell were they thinking with the PONTIAC AZTEK? Some cars stand out in my mind as beauitful, however the majority of them I find as ordinary and "every other car" as any average import.

If you want to get on somebody's case about styling.. talk to BMW or Porsche. Man, I think they are fine cars. I don't necessarily like all of the technology advancements BMW shoves into their cars, but damn, why does every car have to look almost exactly the same? It's ok to have a few styling cues for your brand, but every damn Porsche looks just like every other Porsche. Again, looks beautiful, but ridiculous as far as styling advancements go.
 

bone

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where does the term "F-body" actualy come from?
 
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No Boss, believe me I know how bad Streetfire.net is. Please don't think of me like them, all I do is yell at those idiots! They know nothing! I'm saying you should watch these videos of the Camaros and see they are quite fast. Believe me, I am nothing like those people. My name is Prodigious, go there and see I don't make stupid biased comments, I really don't.
 
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a ford F150 and a chrysler minivan can be compared to a 350Z? What are YOU on? hahaha. :bangin:
Quote:
The only philosophy of large companies is to make money

ok, so different makes don't have a standard design philosphy they adhere to when designing sports cars? That must be why the 911 has changed ever so much over the years, and Honda doesn't constantly make high revving, reliable, small engines, or why OHV V8s are a mainstay of American muscle. Yeah, that must explain it.
I wasn't comparing American sports cars to foreign sports cars. Yes, philosophy in sports cars is very different, I agree. I misunderstood what you meant by Detroit Iron.
 

MasterEvilAce

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bone said:
where does the term "F-body" actualy come from?
GM's car chassis (I don't know the plural for that) were named after the alphabet (now they're named after the greek Alphabet). The Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird were the 'F-body'. Body meaning chassis or platform.. you get the idea. The Corvette is a "Y-Body", etc. I think the term F-Body is used frequently because it refers to both the Camaro and Firebird, which are both pretty much exactly the same except for the interior and exterior changes. The engine, drive train, etc. are all the same. It's easier to say something like, "this shock fits all F-bodies" instead of "this shock fits all camaros and firebirds"
 

bone

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:shock:

i taught it was just a term they use like JDM and addressed all cars made in the US
 
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Yes, he's right. GM does that. Pre 1998 engines in cars like the F-bodies and Corvettes were LT's, now they are LS. And suspensions are designated by Z-whatever.
 
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Once again I'd like to point out that I'm not like those morons on Streetfire. I didn't mean to sound like I thought they knew one bit about cars. :oops:
 
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