Is BMW The New GM?

LeMans GTR

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They're suffering an identity crisis. I think all the financial people are the reason some of these half baked cars are coming out.
 
Shit cars are what killed GM.

BMW decided long ago to increase their market presence, mainly out of fear of being bought up. That's why they bought Rover. After the '99 crisis however they dumped most of it keeping Mini (and Triumph). The problem is that after the sale of MG Rover they only have two brands: BMW and Mini (dealers rejected the idea of resurrecting Triumph). So now they are expanding the BMW product profolio. This is watering down the brand.

Again this is not what killed GM. This is something different. BMW now has an issue with potentially losing their prestige.
 
I wouldn't say that BMW is becoming GM but I do agree that their cars have gone downhill. 2001 is a good year to pick for comparison's sake: E46 and E39 were truly great cars; Z3 (especially the coupe) were very unique and unlike anything else on he market; the X5 was best in class without a doubt. Nowadays: X6 is a hideous useless pos; X5 is barely better than the older one - competition has moved on and BMW hasn't; the 7 isn't doing that great; the 5 is fugly - E39 was elegant yet aggressive and the E60 is just plain average, imo, and the interior is hideous; Z4 lost to a Boxster, 350Z, and S2000 in a C&D comparo; E90/92 is boring-looking - the E46 really stood out and it was an elegant design; etc. Old BMWs are just better.
 
Honestly, right now, the E92 is the only car they make that I'd buy.

I've been noticing their downhill slide for a while now, and I don't really see light at the end of the tunnel, as they are losing the focus of their brand identity. It's going to take a generation or two of doldrums, but I am confident they can get themselves out of this rut.

Mercedes went through it already in the DaimlerChrysler years to some degree (albeit in quite different circumstances), but they managed to pull themselves out of it. BMW can and will do the same.
 
Apart from the M-cars, I can't think of a BMW I'd buy new. Compared the the old cars, the new ones are stuffed with useless technology and just worse overall. I would like the old styling and quality, but with all the new braking, engine, gearbox and suspension technology.

Just take an E39 and stuff the V10 from the E60 M5 in it. :p
 
Shit cars are what killed GM.

BMW decided long ago to increase their market presence, mainly out of fear of being bought up. That's why they bought Rover. After the '99 crisis however they dumped most of it keeping Mini (and Triumph). The problem is that after the sale of MG Rover they only have two brands: BMW and Mini (dealers rejected the idea of resurrecting Triumph). So now they are expanding the BMW product profolio. This is watering down the brand.

Again this is not what killed GM. This is something different. BMW now has an issue with potentially losing their prestige.

They do have Rolls Royce which seems to be doing very well.
 
I forgot about them, but they weren't part of Rover.
 
BMW is not the new GM. It's the new Mercedes. Toyota is the new GM.

This. Like Mercedes at the end of the 90s, BMW is overextending its range, letting quality control and focus slip in an effort to get lower end buyers, going into silly market niches that they don't need to go into - though they're doing unnecessary variations on SUVs instead of needlessly small cars to show off how clever everyone is - and aren't really thinking of how everything relates to each other.

GM, by contrast, just built lazy cars poorly. BMW, for all their faults, aren't lazy. Stupid? Sometimes (X6!), but not lazy.
 
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First of all I think comparing BMW to GM is pretty ridiculous. Has GM made anything good besides the Corvette in 40 years?

Coming from an e46 and now driving an e92 I'll have to say I have no idea what are those guys talking about.
The e92 is much better to drive, the sport suspension is way ahead the e46 sport suspension, the steering is much faster and more responsive, the ergonomics are better, the road noise isn't as high and it doesn't rattle like the e46 does with low profile tyres and sport suspension. It's just on a completely different level. My brother still drives an e46 so I haven't forgot how it feels to drive.

You should drive the new BMW's before saing they are worse than the old ones. Maybe the looks aren't for everyone but otherwise they are great cars.

I think the new F10 5 series looks pretty good and the interior is even better. I could call it a "segment killer".
I didn't like the looks of the e60 but it was a great car to drive, better than e39.
 
I think where BMW is getting lost the most is with these new SUV/Crossover/GT garbage things which really hurt the image from a purists view.
 
I kinda have to agree that the BMW product portfolio certainly has lost a lot of its edge over the last 10 years or so. However, BMW was able to keep their brand character, which is making dynamic cars for active drivers. I drove a couple of BMW's in recent years and my step dad had an E39 540i at one point. Personally I enjoyed driving the E60 more than the E39, it simply was the better car. It would be stupid to argue about that.

And it looks like the new 5er is a segment killer again. Reviews have been so enthusiastic here, they're shortly before becoming hysterical about it. There is actually a waiting list at my car rental for it. I asked again two days ago but so far no models have been delivered by BMW. The guy told me I was the 10th person to explicitely ask for the new 5er this week.

The designs for the next 3er also look very promising again.

I had the opportunity of driving the new 7er some time ago and that one really didn't get me emotionally involved. It's an extremely good car, one of the best in the world, but it lacks some flair. I didn't feel much emotions driving it. It does its job -- quietly, efficiently. But it lacks the "magic ingredient", that certainty, that feeling, that you sit in a special place, an exclusive place that is not reserved for ordinary people. An S-Class gives you that feeling but not the new 7er. The new 7er is brilliant but a bit boring. I always refused to believe that there is something like "too perfect" but I think with the new 7er that could indeed be the case, if you know what I mean.

I love the X3 wth the big engine but it has its downsides: It's a brilliant drive but also feels a little heavy and lacks any flair. I still think it's the best SUV in its class, though. I'm eager to drive the replacement model.

I also like the X5, which is probably still the most agile and most fun-to-drive SUV in the world (if you ignore the Porsche Cayenne). You can thrash it around corners and it never feels as heavy as it is.

I still have to drive a 3-series. That's one big gap in my driving experiences so far.

I think most of the current and upcoming BMW line-up is great or even better than great.

But I will never get used to the X6 or the 5er GT, which I think look appalling. I'm not even sure if I would like to have one as a rental, because they are so embarrassing...

Obviously the new X1 is very successful but I really don't like the looks of it. It looks like a stretched 1-series estate.

The guys in the video are wrong about BMW becoming GM (GM died because of incompetence, ignorance, arrogance and mostly by making bad cars). As long as a car maker produces cars people like to buy (and people like buying BMW's more than ever), it's ridiculous to say they're getting into trouble.

Those two guys are obviously traditional BMW fanboys. The kind of fans, that turn their back to their favourite music group, just because it as become successful and "commercial" and isn't a secret insider tip anymore.

I can see how someone can have problems with the current BMW line-up but it's definitely inappropriate to do a Cassandra warning, just because they now make more models, than in earlier times.

BMW in its 2001 state would have had much more trouble surviving the current crisis. It's not only that you have to be good at what you're doing, you also have to give an answer to customers, who otherwise might turn towards Mercedes or Audi. Currently Audi is the thorn in BMW's side. Audi has all the power of the VW corporation to its disposal, while BMW in comparison is still a small, privately owned company with limited resources. That's why they seek an alliance with PSA/Ctiroen now.

One can criticize BMW for the way they have taken but I strongly believe that in big parts that way was also forced onto them by the demands of the market and the fact, that the competition came out with models they had to give an answer to. BMW is desperately trying to stay ahead of the competition, which is not easy and -- if you ask for my opinion -- not entirely successful at the moment.

But that's it actually. No need to panic. Being second-best to brands like Audi or Mercedes isn't really a bad thing. The three have been pushing each other to the limits over the past 30 years or so and it's that competition between those three brands, that is mainly responsible for a huge part of automobile progress in the last decades.
 
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Those two guys are obviously traditional BMW fanboys. The kind of fans, that turn their back to their favourite music group, just because it as become successful and "commercial" and isn't a secret insider tip anymore.

This hit the nail on the head. BMW will still be a "good" car, they are just evolving and the fan-boys don't like it.

(I'd never buy one new though... way over-priced as some kind of status symbol here in the USA)
 
BMW still makes good road going cars, the issue I see is that they are expanding into market segments which don't seem to exist. I could be wrong, but I don't see theirSUV/Car/Station Wagon thingy with five seats selling too well.

I like BMW, now that Porsche is fucked it would be a shame if they shoot themselves in the foot.
 
Everyone loves bagging the X6 and holding it up as evidence of BMW loosing their focus. I think the opposite. The X6 is evidence of BMW still pushing the bounderies (albeit at the wrong time .. for that particular model). General motors would never attempt to lead in a new direction .. all they ever did was follow trends.
 
Everyone loves bagging the X6 and holding it up as evidence of BMW loosing their focus. I think the opposite. The X6 is evidence of BMW still pushing the bounderies (albeit at the wrong time .. for that particular model). General motors would never attempt to lead in a new direction .. all they ever did was follow trends.

Interesting you bring up GM, since the X6 is a LOT like the Pontiac Aztek in principle - and, arguably, execution. It's an attempt at making an otherwise dull class of vehicle (minivans/SUVs) exciting by making them less practical and 90% more ugly.

It was a really bad idea at launch, but even at the height of the SUV boom it would have been a bad idea.
 
Interesting you bring up GM, since the X6 is a LOT like the Pontiac Aztek in principle - and, arguably, execution. It's an attempt at making an otherwise dull class of vehicle (minivans/SUVs) exciting by making them less practical and 90% more ugly.

It was a really bad idea at launch, but even at the height of the SUV boom it would have been a bad idea.

Pontiac Aztek? The difference here is that BMW introduced the X6 in a serious worldwide fashion, GM didn't bother to do the same with the Aztek .. either they knew it was rubbish .. or they weren't as committed to the concept as they expected their customers to be. If the Aztek was as bad as the Vibe (which I drove a few years ago) .. I'm glad they left it in North America.
 
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