Is Clarkson Really That Stupid?

Dsemaj

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He'd design and build a jet with nothing but a hammer :lol:

Too true! No offense to Jeremy, I love him, but I wouldn't trust him to engineer my sandwich.
 

Derek

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Honorary doctorate in engineering, mate. I don't think BAE Systems is stomping his door down just yet.
But but but they said 'the good doctor..' in some episode. :cry: :mrgreen:
 

MacGuffin

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You have to view "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" as a satire, not as a documentary.

We all know that Jeremy Clarkson is a person who shamelessly exaggerates, indulges in prejucides and stereotypes (not a tenth of them really believed by himself, I bet) and likes to be provocative.

And he is not the slightest bit concerned about having to eat his own words some time later, when he was proven wrong. He simply shrugs that off.

So instead of getting angry about details and accusing him of being unfair, you should take a step or two back and watch "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" from a distance. What you have then, is a program that basically says that American cars are technically not as good as European cars.

So what? That has been so for over 30 years. Why being angry at the messenger, when the message itself is basically true?

Why have all of the American car manufacturers been in a financial struggle for years or even decades with decreasing profits and stagnating sales figures and can only sell their cars with large discounts?

Except for the British car industry (which simply doesn't exist anymore for similar reasons), all car manufacturers in the world are making solid profits. Only not the Big Three in the USA. Why is that?

Maybe because low fuel prices and a lax environmental consciousness have prevented any technological progress? Maybe because American cars are so cheaply made that often even a dentist's chair is a nicer place to be in? Maybe because they too much relied on their home market, completely neglecting exports to other countries, thus not having to compete with Europeans and Japanese in foreign markets? Maybe because the American mentality includes being so damn proud of and in love with themselves, that they simply ignore the signs, until it is almost too late?

Maybe all of these reasons?

Consider "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" a wakeup call, a polemic thorn in your side. That's what it is meant to be. Do you believe Jeremy Clarkson is happy that he can bash American cars? No, he is unhappy that he has to. As a car enthusiast, the bad condition of the US car industry simply hurts him. Jeremy feels physical pain, when he encounters bad cars. Satire and polemic are his way to express that pain.

So instead of bashing Jeremy Clarkson, for God's sake start being furious about the US car industry. Be furious at them, make them produce better cars that can make owners of Japanese or European cars interested in buying an American car!

Maybe, only maybe GM, Ford and Chrysler can survive the next decade then...
 
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GusinCA

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Wow, I thought this subject would slowly die away, but I guess not.
And you should read what the original post is about before spouting off on an anti-American car industry rant, which really has nothing to do with the point of this post, but you probably knew that anyway, as did Mr. Clarkson...
 

MacGuffin

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I read that. And what followed, too.

That's why I thought a change of perspective might be at hand.

The basic statement was that Jezza was being unaccurate and unfair. Fair point. But what I want to say is that being treated unfair and unaccurate is often a welcome excuse to ignore or deny the core of the problem.

And I feel that's happening with all those who can get so agitated about details.

The details may be wrong but the overall message is not, which seems to be neglected.

That's what I want to say.
 

MattD1zzl3

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The details may be wrong but the overall message is not

We wouldnt have bothered to post if we agreed with that, you say it as though its a well known fact that we all accept.
 

MacGuffin

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I'm awaiting your counter arguments then :)
 

MattD1zzl3

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Its pointless, you're too set in your ways, it wouldnt be an argument, we would just scream meaningless facts and figures at eachother and nothing would be resolved. Intelligent and productive discussion is impossible on the internet.
 

anti-net

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I agree with MacGuffin, some of the American manufactures are acting like like....
:evil:BRITISH LEYLAND:evil:

GM is a good example they've got cars that are exactly the same with different badges on and maybe a different face - which means you end up with cars having rivals that are themselves. Further more, American Axle Strikes that's also got a wiff of BL about it.

Don't think I'm just a European-all-American-hater, I love the Mustang partially the the tuned up ones, there great, OK the interior is a bit shit, but a Lotus is hardly a luxury palace (but it does now have a cup-holder :eek: ), nor is a Noble

ZO6 is a great car and the C6.R is an amazing racer.
 

MacGuffin

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Its pointless, you're too set in your ways, it wouldnt be an argument, we would just scream meaningless facts and figures at eachother and nothing would be resolved. Intelligent and productive discussion is impossible on the internet.

Well, if you put it that way: Why have you put 1160 posts in this forum?

Discussions on the internet can of course be very constructive - as long as you try to see and understand the point another one wants to make.

Let me make my point:

As a car enthusiast, I look out for other cars. And I have a good memory. So how many U.S. cars did I see recently?

Well, there was a Chrysler Crossfire the other day and a guy in a PT Cruiser. Then there was a 300 C and a couple Voyagers - and that's about it. Oh, and a Jeep - but don't ask for details.

You see more U.S. cars in Southern Germany but that's because of the U.S. military bases.

Of course Ford and GM (with Opel & Vauxhall) have European branches that produce cars for the European market, but they are independently designed and built in European factories, so they are 100 % European cars.

Considering all the choices and the variety of brands you can buy here, why do you rarely see a U.S. car? It's not because they're too expensive. Every review of an American car points out how much cheaper it is in comparison to its competitors. So if price is not the issue, what is?

Well, the only real U.S. brand that sells enough to pop up in surveys here, is Chrysler with its sub brands Jeep and Dodge. That's because they tried to get a foot on the German market during the time they were owned by Mercedes.

Not very successful, though, because you can spot Chrysler very easily in each and every quality or reliability survey: On the bottom, right below Alfa Romeo, Kia and Land Rover. They usually share the last place with Chevrolet (which used to be Daewoo).

And that is exactly the problem: Cars made in America are in their current state not competitive enough for the European markets, which on a worldwide scale, are the benchmark. If they cannot make it here, they'll have a serious problem in the future.

You may not recognize that problem in the USA because you only see your local market and lack the comparison. It may look like things are quite okay there, maybe even getting better.

But the bitter truth is: The global claims have already been located and divided. The future belongs to those who can be competitive everywhere. For the others it might already be too late. Because in an increasing global economy, you simply cannot afford to make cars that only sell well in one country.
 

BerserkerCatSplat

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I'm awaiting your counter arguments then :)

You're not going to get any, because we've already debated that topic to death eleventy billion times over on this forum. You're new, so you won't know that, but that's how it is.
 

argatoga

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For your information America is not Europe. Gas is cheap and the roads weren't built by The Romans. Cars here are bigger (as most of our roads were designed for car traffic), and are a bit more hungry when it comes to fuel.

Now while there has been a lot of crap made in the US (mostly the 70s and 80s) there have been some wonderful cars that work in America but not Europe because of the above point. GM's 90s era B-Body cars such as the Impala SS and Buick Roadmaster for instance. These are delightful cars to drive and have a lot of power, but won't work in Europe as they are too big to get around in. The Mustang is a great bang for the buck sports car, but it eats too much fuel for its target audience over in Europe.

Also don't judge all American cars based on Chryslers. Chrysler is far behind Ford and GM in quality.
 

Jay

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Further more, American Axle Strikes that's also got a wiff of BL about it.

Hey, we fight for the right to have leaf springed axles!

OR:

See what happens when we argue about leaf springs?

OR:

The 'murican LOLspring strike, now in its second month, is causing General Motors more than a few headaches. The ROFL shortage caused teh General to nearly cease production of its highly profitable large trucks and SUVs, and shut down production in Oshawa, Ontario and Fort Wayne, Indiana, and thus were totally PW3ND.

As of this past weekend, it appears that GM has found enough ROFL's to re-open those two plants to start building the Chevrolet 'Murican and GMC "STFU, septic!". While that's good news for those workers, the LOL plant in Arlington, Texas, Americaland, all but untouched by the strike, will now find itself shutting down. Arlington will go on a four-week layoff starting April 14, cause 'murrricans are too stoopid fat and lazy

To get the Ontario and Indiana plants up and running, GM is reportedly getting parts from an American LOLspring plant in Mexico (as Chrysler has been doing). Although GM won't officially specify from where the parts are coming, if they are being supplied from Mexico, as many suspect, it will offer the automaker additional leverage in its dispute against the UAW, aka Spectres mortal enemy. Union officials are currently losing negotiation power as the slumping 'murican auto market (kekekekekekeke) has reduced the demand for vehicles with 'murican LOLspring components. In a move to shift the balance of power back to its favor, the UAW has threatened additional strikes if local contracts aren't soon reached. n00bs.
 
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anti-net

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kts350

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Meet the Neighours pretty much was a piss take of Europe, he said the Germans were going to "Do it all again" and laid quite hard into the French, Dutch and Belgians

Clarkson also said he liked the C6 (which I agree with, I love that thing).

Plus I'm fucking English, The Irish hate us, The Scottish hate us so much they would properly split Scotland from the rest of the Britain and float away, The French hate us despite the fact we saved them from the Nazis! The Germans hate us because they can't play football or war. The Dutch hate us because we keep coming over to there country and getting drunk and violent. Most of the middle east hates us. So don't just think its the Americans they get a bit of a beating, its everyone, the Americans just take it seriously :)

There we go, I put the world to rights....erh kinda :rolleyes:


You forgot the Aussies hate you poms as well... :lol:
 
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I said to myself that I wasn?t going to post in this thread but here I am?.oh well.

First: Why are many American cars crap? Because much of the money that should go for R&D (as well as build quality) goes for lifetime insurance and huge salaries for UAW members. Friggin politics.

Yes, some American cars are crap. But not all. This point has be made ad-nauseum. I am not going to bring up any statistics or facts. This post is just my personal experience.

My daily driver is a 96 GMC Sonoma pickup that I inherited from my father. It is very basic transportation. It isn?t fast or fancy but it gets 25 MPG and it starts every time. The most remarkable thing about it is that everything works on this 12 year old car and it has never left me stranded. This is one of the vehicles that Clarkson would look down his nose at?hmmm?let me rephrase; this is one of the vehicles that the ?Clarkson persona? would look down his nose at. I think if it came down to it, Clarkson the man would rather ride in my humble truck rather than walk.

Now let?s talk about the highly touted BMW/ Mercedes. Every single person that I have ever known that has one of these ?finely engineered cars? has had to visit it in the shop quite often. Several times a year in fact?all of it unscheduled repairs. It isn?t usually major things that go wrong but annoying things. Like the windshield wipers only work at one speed or the A/C vent covers fell off. How often do you see a 12 year old European car that is completely functional?

Hell, in one of the Car and Driver tests a BMW wouldn?t even start reliably. Of course Car and Driver still slobbered all over the car and, of course, it won their comparison test. Any person that would pay that much for a daily driver that wouldn?t start reliably should have their head examined.

Now, that being said: I also have a Alfa Spider and I truly love that car. But I love it knowing its faults. I know that if I apply too much gas in reverse it will go out of gear. I know that if the radiator fan starts hitting the fan shroud that it is time to change the motor mounts?.again. I know that the electrical connections for the center brake light are flaky at best and that other drivers are going to tell me about it?..right after they ask me what kind of car I am driving. The thing is, the Alfa isn?t my daily driver so I don?t have to rely on it. I would be in a sorry state if getting to work meant that I had to rely on the ?charm? of my Alfa.
 

GusinCA

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Boy I used to have an 87 300E, that thing was in the shop as much as it was out.
My 2000 Ford Mustang GT convertible however, without any fancy gadgets, only blew an alternator in the 8 years I had it.
Maybe it's just the complex, high-tech cars that have all the problems these days, regardless of where they are from...
 

anti-net

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You forgot the Aussies hate you poms as well... :lol:

Aww I thought you liked us!! *sigh* I'll add you to the "English Haters List"

/Plus out a large scroll and writes "251: Aussies" to the bottom
 

robybobey

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As far as argumental discussions go, i'm thinking of starting a thread asking why America has 5.7litre engines in chevy's, when back over here, we would only have a 3litre diesel and so on.

Who's using all the fuel? :p
 
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