Is Traction Control (without stability) useful for you?

targa_997

targa_997

Active Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
341
Location
USA
Car(s)
Z3 Roadster 2.8i
As I experienced it on my car, I found out the Traction Control is not really helpful on wet surface.

I know I have a bad contender: RWD, limited-slip diff and huge caster angle.

However, each time I exceed grip limit on wet with the TC off, the car slides brutally requiring soft counter-steer and throttle adjustments. With the TC on, the same thing happens, with three slight differences:

- the TC light blinks like a christmas tree
- the slide becomes even more brutal while the power is cut off
- footwork is unuseful

So what the point of this electronic device?
 
TC just limits wheel spin, generally in a slide each wheel that is spinning is braked individually. Stability control is what tries to bring the car back into line when it gets sideways. Ive never been in a slide in a RWD car so i have no idea what it actually feels like.

In our Volvo, there is a shitload of torque going to the front wheels and it just kind of kicks in around 2000rpm. So when if you floor, nothing happens and then the front wheels are going a million miles per hour while the car is still stationary. In this case it feels like the TC isnt even on at all.
 
I don't think TC actually brakes, only limits torque. ESP uses brakes independantly at each wheel. And I agree TC is handful for torquey FWD.
 
Depends on the system - some TC systems are unobtrusive and subtle, while others are awful. It's a good aid for inexperienced drivers - but it needs to be setup correctly.
 
s I experienced it on my car, I found out the Traction Control is not really helpful on wet surface.

I know I have a bad contender: RWD, limited-slip diff and huge caster angle.

However, each time I exceed grip limit on wet with the TC off, the car slides brutally requiring soft counter-steer and throttle adjustments. With the TC on, the same thing happens, with three slight differences:

- the TC light blinks like a christmas tree
- the slide becomes even more brutal while the power is cut off
- footwork is unuseful

So what the point of this electronic device?
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I can see exactly what you mean. In my RWD car (240SX), driving on slippery roads is certainly interesting: blipping the throttle or lifting off quickly causes the back end to slide towards the curb, even though the incline of the side of the road is only very slight. Solution? A slight bit of opposite lock (steer towards the curb), throttle back to "normal" position (according what gear you're in and what speed you want to be going), and it's all fine.

As for the traction control (well, I don't have any, thank goodness), I think it's just a poorly conceived system in your case. The throttle cut-off actually causes you to lose more grip because having a sudden cut-off is the equivalent to abruptly taking your foot off of the throttle (one of the ways that you can cause a RWD car's back-end to flip out). Add to that the disabling of the throttle pedal, and TC just makes everything worse.

Keep the TC off. Just learn and practice getting back control when you lose it.
 
epp_b said:
I can see exactly what you mean. In my RWD car (240SX), driving on slippery roads is certainly interesting: blipping the throttle or lifting off quickly causes the back end to slide towards the curb, even though the incline of the side of the road is only very slight. Solution? A slight bit of opposite lock (steer towards the curb), throttle back to "normal" position (according what gear you're in and what speed you want to be going), and it's all fine.

As for the traction control (well, I don't have any, thank goodness), I think it's just a poorly conceived system in your case. The throttle cut-off actually causes you to lose more grip because having a sudden cut-off is the equivalent to abruptly taking your foot off of the throttle (one of the ways that you can cause a RWD car's back-end to flip out). Add to that the disabling of the throttle pedal, and TC just makes everything worse.

Keep the TC off. Just learn and practice getting back control when you lose it.
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It's my second RWD so I got used to do this. The first one was more conventional (a 1984 E28 BMW 528i) and was easier on wet surface with its normal diff and no caster angle. My actual car is really a pain on slippery surface, not when I'm attacking corners since TC is off and I expect it to slide, but rather viscious for everyday use. The first week I got it, it punched me so hard on wet just because of a painted arrow surrounded by reflecting devices on a highway exit ramp that I needed to counter-steer thrice to get it back (and I think it was miraculous to get it back, since making 3 counter-steer means you're really in bad shape).

By the way, which 240SX is it?
 
It seems pointless in my FWD box, but I have both traction and stability control. I can only defeat the traction control :( One time I took a left turn really fast and my stability control went crazy, beeping and flashing repeatedly.
 
cvg said:
It seems pointless in my FWD box, but I have both traction and stability control. I can only defeat the traction control :( One time I took a left turn really fast and my stability control went crazy, beeping and flashing repeatedly.
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even I would suggest you to not take a box fast round a corner :p
 
andyhui01 said:
even I would suggest you to not take a box fast round a corner :p
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right! Even thought your box looks the same from any angle, there is no wheel on top of it if you rollover. :p
 
By the way, which 240SX is it?
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It's a 95 240SX. It says "SE" on the back, but I don't think it's really an SE. There's no spoiler, the rims are 15" and I don't think I have a rear sway bar (all things indicative of an SE model). It needs some work...a bit of rust and some mechanical work, but I still love it ;)

I think I have an LSD, though, but I'm not sure. I'll find out when some of that frozen white stuff falls ;)
 
epp_b said:
It's a 95 240SX. It says "SE" on the back, but I don't think it's really an SE. There's no spoiler, the rims are 15" and I don't think I have a rear sway bar (all things indicative of an SE model). It needs some work...a bit of rust and some mechanical work, but I still love it ;)

I think I have an LSD, though, but I'm not sure. I'll find out when some of that frozen white stuff falls ;)
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I think SEs of that year also have five lug hubs. Do you have four of five lug hubs?
 
I think SEs of that year also have five lug hubs. Do you have four of five lug hubs?
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You're right, I forgot to mention that -- yes, "real" SE's have 16" five-lug wheels, mine are 15" four-lugs :(
 
epp_b said:
You're right, I forgot to mention that -- yes, "real" SE's have 16" five-lug wheels, mine are 15" four-lugs :(
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You can do a hub conversion. It is not even all that expensive.
 
when did the z3 come with lsd ?
._.
anyway i think traction control is completely useless...
as seen in this s2000 signiture here...
n6108971_30913013_8141.jpg
 
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You can do a hub conversion. It is not even all that expensive.
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Until you factor in four new wheels and tires ;)

anyway i think lsd is completely useless...
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An LSD gives you better traction and allows both wheels to spin simultaneously.
 
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epp_b said:
Until you factor in four new wheels and tires ;)


An LSD gives you better traction and allows both wheels to spin simultaneously.
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oopies...
i meant TCS is completely useless
i'm writing a paper and doing forums same time... bad concentration
 
Izari said:
when did the z3 come with lsd ?
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My (very) bad, I did a misuse of language, I don't know the English term for this differential ("autobloquant" in French). If someone could give me the exact term in English: it's a differential that locks 100% when the speed difference between the wheels exceed a limit (25% difference in most cases), whereas a real LSD will allow some difference even when it locks (it never locks 100%).

It's very funny provided you have a lot of grip: at the exit of a hairpin, just floor the throttle and take off the hands from the steering wheel, but the brutal lock may be dangerous when not expected (slippery).
 
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