Jay Leno's reason why...

narin

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I think i understand what leno is talking about here. He sees the Tahoe as a stepping stone and an impactful "green" car; it will make a difference. sure it's not as efficient as a prius but it will get people to change. it's hard to get an entire population, especially a big one (United States ~300mill.), to change it's habits. one example of this is obesity. I don't know about europe, but here in north America there is a huge problem with fat, we know it's bad and are aware of the consequences but most of us still don't change our habits because it's easier to stuff our faces than watch what we eat and it's the same things with cars. Up to this point it seems as if the environmentalists have been preaching us to go from something simple, like the ease, size, "perceived safety", and overall pleasantness of a SUV, to a pain in the ass generally small hybrid. this is where GM, chevy , and the tahoe come in. They're saying "alright we'll give you the space, the safety, and whatever, and we'll make it a hybrid; you'll have practically everything you had before". I think that is the most crucial part: getting people to switch over. like i mentioned before it's not as efficient as the pruis or other hybrids, but for now it's good enough that they will be driving hybrids because maybe their next vehicle and the vehicle of their children will be an even more efficient car or SUV. So there you go the Tahoe is a stepping stone because it will get people to change GRADUALLY over to hybrids. You can't get a mass of people to change overnight; Rome wasn't built in a day. the tahoe does this GRADUALLY
 

MattD1zzl3

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Speak for yourself, i'm not fit and hardcore, i dont jog or go to the gym. I just dont eat quite as much as everyone else. (1 or 2 meals a day), balance your calories with how much hard work you do daily, thats all there is to it, forget diets.

It works for me, i weigh like 175 pounds, and i'm 6 feet. Thats a pretty good weight for a yank i think :D
 

Chupacabras

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It's odd to me... Canada, which has more "wide open spaces" and all that cheery american stuff, still buys more small cars on average than the US...
 

janstett

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most Americans need big vehicles? or u all have boats?
I live about 60 miles inland and on my tiny cul-de-sac there are at least two neighbors with boats that I know of. Yes, especially when you get away from the congested metro areas there are people with boats, campers (caravans, and big ones not the tiny ones Brits have), dirt bikes, quads, motorcycles, race cars, etc. Not everybody, but it's certainly not rare. Something with the towing capacity of a bungee cord like a Spaz-4 isn't going to handle it.

Let's put it in petrol-head terms. I have a 944 Turbo I use for racing. It's still street legal. I also have a Jeep Liberty (Cherokee for you), 5000 lb towing capacity. Pretty good for a small Jeep. But towing the 944 to the track would have been pushing it -- the car weighs 2800 pounds and the trailers around 1500. That and there were concerns about the wheelbase of the Jeep vs. the wheel on the trailer, some ratio that would make driving dangerous. So in the end I don't do it.

The other option is a dolly under the front wheels but then I'd have to disconnect the drive shaft to tow -- and the 944 is a transaxle so it's a torque tube, plus I'd worry about cooking the differential. So that's out.

So to be serious and have a track-prepped car, not only do I need the race car, I need a large, capable tow vehicle too. One of those monster 4x4s that I hate. Oh and by the way, over here Toyota and Nissan make competing behemoths just as bad as the Detroit offerrings.
 

janstett

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I think his point on plug in vehicles is a load of shit. You'll save money on gas but your electric bill will make up for it quite easily. The future are cars that sustain themselves independently like the new hydrogen honda.

Wall plug= higher electric bill by the same amount as you save on gas.
Thank you. Environmental nut jobs don't seem to understand this.

Electricity isn't magic, it does not self substantiate. It comes from somewhere. Coal (dirty) and nuclear (evil) being the two common choices. In the US the environmental whackos have put such a fear of nuclear power in the public even though their pals in Europe are highly dependent on nuclear for electricity. We haven't built a new plant since the 1970s. As electricity needs go up, that will have to be confronted and reconsidered.

Then countries like, China and Russia, for example, burn lots of dirty dirty coal for their electricity. Is that better for the environment than burning gas/petrol? But as we've seen from the Kyoto Accords, pollution from some places on Earth (China/India) is somehow more wholesome than pollution from other places (US).

Regarding hydrogen fuel cells, even then I have doubts. #1, how do we make hydrogen fuel? Will they be taking non-potable sea water to break out the hydrogen? #2, fuel cells release only water as a byproduct. Green, right? However, it means we are taking oxygen out of the air and creating water vapor, one of the big greenhouse gasses (look it up, water vapor is worse as a greenhouse effect than CO2). The global warming/cooling conspiracists will complain we are over-hydrating the atmosphere still causing global warming/cooling, maybe "Global Dampening" (tm). And when that vapor coalesces it will fall as rain, increasing sea level. We're creating more water than exists naturally, so within 5 years the sea levels will rise 6000 feet and we'll all be dead.

Only a perpetual motion machine will satisfy the environ-mentals.
 
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GraemeH

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Given that hydroogen makes up 90% of every atom in the universe finding it isn't a problem, nor is ever running out. It powers the stars themselves, so I consider it the best lead to follow on new fuels.
 

janstett

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I really wish some consumer group who come up and run an ad campaign encouraging people to use smaller cars but instead we get retard consumer groups running ad campaigns encouraging people to call their congress person to tell them they want to use huge land crawlers for cars when they talk about a new energy bill. They talk about wanting to decrease our consumption of foreign oil and the best and easiest way to do so isn't by using hybrids or making cars that run on water, it's just by using smaller cars. People don't seem to realize that a car can be much more fun when it's small enough and light enough to actually go round corners.
This will never work because you fail to understand the American psyche. Here's why.

(1) Bigger is better. That's been ingrained in our cultural DNA. Detroit is partly to blame, but not entirely. Do you want the 32" TV or the 50" TV? Of course you want the 50" TV because -- bigger is better. Do you want the 4gb iPhone or the 8gb iPhone? Do you want the 20gb PS3 or the 60gb PS3? Do you want the 2GHz computer or the 2.6 GHz computer? See?

In Japan, because space is so tight, smaller is better. We're catching some of that with things like iPods.

(2) The people who brought us small cars (Japanese, Europeans) listen to focus groups who want things bigger and smoother, thus their cars become bigger and fatter every successive generation. Today's Civic is bigger than the original generations of the Accord. The Accord is becoming full sized. Look at the growth in the 3 series over its generations. They always gain weight. The only exception I can think of is the 6th gen Corvette being smaller than the 5th. Ever ask yourself why? I can just see the focus groups, "Oh it's great I just wish it was a little roomier inside and had more headroom and had a smoother ride". Look at the Mini-Clubman. WTF is the point of a bigger Mini? And the 2nd gen New Mini is bigger than the 1st.

(3) Marketing. Smaller cars are cheaper cars. Cars like the Mini and 1-series buck the trend, but still, small cars = cheaper, big cars = more expensive. Do you think it's a coincidence that the C-class is Mercedes cheapest vehicle and the S-Class is their most expensive? Who really aspires to drive a Smart instead of the AMG S-class, or a Mini instead of an 6 series, or a Yaris instead of a Lexus LS600? Small cars are never dream cars with few exceptions (Lotus, et al). Look at your corporate parking lot, and you'll see the guys with the 3 series are 1st level management, the 5 series are the middle managers, and the 7 series belongs to the senior execs. Coincidence?

Another way to reduce our dependence on foreign oil is to drill our own, but the environmental nut jobs prevent us from doing that - NIMBY. Did you know China is drilling for oil in the Gulf of Mexico but we are not? We can't conserve ourselves out of dependence on foriegn oil.

Also the argument that larger vehicles are safe vehicles is so ignorant and retarded it makes me sick, they are only safer for those in them and the other smaller car they hit because they were busy on their cellphone while drinking their 44oz drink will be in the ground a few days after.
What if the guy in the small car cut across three lanes of traffic doing 100 mph and takes the offramp at unsafe speeds, or weaves in and out of traffic because he thinks he's so fast and nimble? You act like only SUV drivers are bad drivers. I think everybody is a bad driver.

Further, there is something to be said for physics. A Honda Fit is never, ever, ever going to get the best of an accident with a Ford Excursion. They can have 7000 air bags and active this-and-that, but Newton says the Fit is going to lose. Can you blame people for not wanting to be on the losing end, for not starting out on the losing end of physics? You want people to voluntarily put their lives and their family's lives at risk? For example, when I drive my 944 Turbo to work on interstate 78, I'm petrified... 2800 pound low-slung car against an SUV, I'm dead if I get hit. Let alone against one of the 18 wheelers I'm side-by-side with.

Your solution is to put everybody in equally dangerous small cars where we'll all get killed by 18 wheelers and the risk is spread "equally" -- even then assuming all the large vehicles sold thus far magically disappear or are confiscated. The average soccer mom, for better or worse, decides that if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. It's a rather pragmatic decision IMO. I can't really rail too hard against that, even though I hate little women in 6 ton SUVs, I can see wanting to have the best advantage as far as collision physics go.
 
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SVTWANNABE

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I have to agree with what janstett posted above, as well as some of the points raised about why the Tahoe was chosen.

I believe the Mercury Mariner Hybrid (the Ford Escape Hybrid's sister car) was named the 2006 Green Car of the Year. Are people rushing out to buy it or the Escape Hybrid? Sure I see more of them on the road these days, but realistically, I see more gasoline powered versions out there than hybrids - especially the 2008 version.

Realistically, I don't think choosing the Tahoe would make a significant change. It's a cultural mindset that we all have to collectively make. The "bigger is better" mentality has gone a long way in cementing additional ideas like success and status. Little things like club-pack packaging and a massive baby stroller have necessitated a larger vehicle to pack all your belongings on a trip to a big-box store to "save" on whatever you buy. Also, the way gas prices fluctuate, we as human beings start to panic about conserving during a spike in price. But get us when there's a drop at the pumps and we're back to our wasteful ways.
 

MattD1zzl3

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Further, there is something to be said for physics. A Honda Fit is never, ever, ever going to get the best of an accident with a Ford Excursion. They can have 7000 air bags and active this-and-that, but Newton says the Fit is going to lose.
The fit might lose, but the idea is that the people inside will not. SUV's really really do deform the cabin when they crash. (I've seen a Chevrolet engine sitting on the passengers seat.) I have no idea why but they seem to. Probably because i hear-tell they fall under the less-strict truck category for safety testing.
 

narin

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Speak for yourself, i'm not fit and hardcore, i dont jog or go to the gym. I just dont eat quite as much as everyone else. (1 or 2 meals a day), balance your calories with how much hard work you do daily, thats all there is to it, forget diets.

It works for me, i weigh like 175 pounds, and i'm 6 feet. Thats a pretty good weight for a yank i think :D
what are you trying to say?:? you've completely missed my point haven't you?:p

Given that hydroogen makes up 90% of every atom in the universe finding it isn't a problem, nor is ever running out. It powers the stars themselves, so I consider it the best lead to follow on new fuels.
i see your point and yes hydrogen is present in most molecules, however one of the problems with these types of cars is isolating or producing pure hydrogen. Making hydrogen is costly business. even if they do manage to achieve feasible hydrogen there lies problems in storing the gas and implementing "hydrogen stations"
 

Mr. Nice

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Given that hydrogen makes up 90% of every atom in the universe finding it isn't a problem, nor is ever running out. It powers the stars themselves, so I consider it the best lead to follow on new fuels.
I posted a video about the hydrogen matter in another section. I posted this link to the thread in the other section before but not many people seem to have seen it, so here it is again.

http://forums.finalgear.com/showthread.php?t=23839
 

teeb

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Thank you. Environmental nut jobs don't seem to understand this.

Electricity isn't magic, it does not self substantiate. It comes from somewhere. Coal (dirty) and nuclear (evil) being the two common choices. In the US the environmental whackos have put such a fear of nuclear power in the public even though their pals in Europe are highly dependent on nuclear for electricity. We haven't built a new plant since the 1970s. As electricity needs go up, that will have to be confronted and reconsidered.

Then countries like, China and Russia, for example, burn lots of dirty dirty coal for their electricity. Is that better for the environment than burning gas/petrol? But as we've seen from the Kyoto Accords, pollution from some places on Earth (China/India) is somehow more wholesome than pollution from other places (US).
Presumably this is where the 'clean' power-generating forms come in, such as geothermal energy, hydro power (be it from dams or wave power), wind farms and so on.

As it stands, though, you are entirely right - China alone are building 300+ coal powered stations at the moment, which produce far more bad gases than is helpful. Enough to negate any gas savings from all the world's Priuses. And India are equally guilty.

Here in France almost 80% of the country's energy is from nuclear power, for example. And France is top of the EU in terms of sustainable 'green' energy production, too. Having said that if Iceland were in the EU, France wouldn't be top...
 
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ja404

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I know for a fact that GM dealers, around my area at least, are having a realllly hard time moving Tahoes off the lot. Nobody wants them anymore, they're not practical. So it would make sense if there were some GM influence going on behind the scenes. ;)
 

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^Gotta love how he doesn't bother to pronounce "Jaguar" and "coupe" the British way. America ftw! :p
 
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