Jay Leno's reason why...

Oh, and for the record, I learned to drive on an SUV, but had I taken my drivers test on it, I would have failed accident avoidance completely.
 
thevictor390 said:
Nothing will seriously change until gas prices become absurdly high as we come close to running out altogether. My dad just bought a Hummer H2, entirely for the cool factor. Personally, I couldn't part with my car (see sidebar), although I could part with the 4-cylinder engine that gets the same fuel mileage as the V6. Living in the Worcester area (second-largest city in New England), it still feels too big in the city. This is partly because I'm a new and not very good driver, however.

4x4s are great and useful as secondary cars, for those times when it snows (I've been forced to stay in before), or you need to tow something, or you need to take the whole family on a long journey, or you need lots of cargo space, or any combination of the above. It's the fact that my dad uses it as a daily commuter that bothers me. He drives way more than I do, yet I have the more fuel-efficient car... make sense? It particularly irks me when he complains that I'm too aggressive with the throttle and am not driving economically... I want to scream "YOU'RE DRIVING A ***** HUMMER AND YOU WANT ME TO DRIVE ECONOMICALLY???" Sadly, many Americans just don't get it when it comes to the environment, and the only thing I can see to change that is a direct economic impact. I for one am not at all worried about the environment in everyday life, but I simply could not afford to drive a big SUV, so I don't. Plus I hate driving them.
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See that's the thing we as american's are to thick to see even 10 years into the future. Our dependency on oil is worrysome. By the time we see prices at the point where american's will change there ways I fear it will be far to late. Quite frankly I don't want to know what's going to happen. War will be at the top of that list (we're already seeing war over oil), economic collapse will probably follow. Name one thing that we use that doesn't involve oil in some fasion or another and I will give you a cookie. Seriously, if the middle easterners wanted to cause some serious havok what could they do? Cut off our oil. We only supply about 20% of our own oil at the present day, a far cry from our surplus that we used to have 50 years ago.
 
darkday2 said:
Seriously, if the middle easterners wanted to cause some serious havok what could they do? Cut off our oil. We only supply about 20% of our own oil at the present day, a far cry from our surplus that we used to have 50 years ago.
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Just where are you "seeing war over oil (sic)"? Last time I checked, WE PAY FOR IT. (You are obviously suffering from a liberal left wing public semi-education.)

1. Their economies depend on oil sales.

2. If they cut us off, their countries would become glass parking lots.

3. American eco-weenies don't want oil exploration in Alaska or off the coasts. They do not want to build new refineries. They do not want nuclear power plants. This makes #2 viable.

P.S.: The plural of American is Americans, not american's. (There's that lousy american public education!)
 
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Mach1 said:
P.S.: The plural of American is Americans, not american's. (There's that lousy american public education!)
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Followed immediately by use of "to thick" (new verb?) instead of "too thick", "there ways" instead of "their ways", and "to far" which is not a verb, instead of "too far". I almost have to believe this is a trolling attempt as the sentence is chocked full of errors. OMG teh Globull Wereming iz gonna killz us al!!!1!!! People in this country are becoming fricking functionally illiterate. Is it so hard? Don't get me started on the lack of engineering students in the US. With people so damned shallow and illiterate I understand why our engineering schools are flooded with foreign nationals. Students (and I use the term loosely, not losely) are indoctrinated in left-wing political dogma and socialist movements, but are becoming systematically illiterate and incapable of reasoned thought. Logic has no place in the public square anymore -- which is exactly what the Demi-Gods want.

If the US is in Iraq and/or Afghanistan for oil, we should all be very mad because we don't seem to be getting very much of it out of either and prices are only going up. You would think if we went to war for this oil we'd be sucking their countries dry (instead of the reverse) and gas would be $.75 per gallon.

I also want to point out that government taxes add 50% to the price of a gallon of gas (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/mmfr/jul07/trmfuel.htm). The federal government takes 18% tax and the states take up to 34% tax on top of that. So when you see politicians like Chucky Cheese Schumer or Elliott Spitter complaining about gas prices, remember they could drop it in half in some places by eliminating the taxes. It's all crocodile tears. The fixed-income granny eating cat food and freezing to death still has to pay the 50% tax on a gallon of gas. It also shows that government has a vested interest in high gas prices because their tax revenue increases (despite the public howling they do to the contrary). So when you pay $4 for a gallon of gas remember the market cost is $2.66 and the rest goes into the tax coffers and smile.

And we should be encouraging global warming because right now in New York it's fricking cold and I'm using up a lot of heating oil. One good way to use less oil is to heat up the cold winter regions, so more global warming please, and hurry! And don't forget little old ladies are freezing to death eating their cat food because government isn't big enough. How many SUVs do I have to drive to make it like Florida, sunny and 70 degrees every day?

One thing that drives me INSANE that DarkDay2 reflects is the way that the EnvironMental movement hates oil, hates the SUV, and focuses all blame on the individual and family. Do they not realize that Susie in her SUV is NOTHING compared to the demands of infrastructure and the industrial complex? If cars ran on Gatorade we'd still need oil for all that stuff. But the environMentals don't think about that and instead it's the cars in our driveways that are to blame -- IMO because it's a symbol of consumerism and the environMental movement is being used as a facade by the socialist & communist movements, I call them "watermelons" -- green on the outside, red on the inside. Socialists and Communists are always telling people how to live, and that's exactly what the greens do. The same way they are responsible for ludicrous passenger vehicle emission standards yet do nothing about the public transportation vehicles spewing diesel soot one could cut with a knife.

darkday2 said:
See that's the thing we as american's are to thick to see even 10 years into the future. Our dependency on oil is worrysome. [...] Seriously, if the middle easterners wanted to cause some serious havok what could they do? Cut off our oil. We only supply about 20% of our own oil at the present day, a far cry from our surplus that we used to have 50 years ago.
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Yeah, you would think we'd start building refineries and drilling for oil in our own territories and off our own coast to help supply our own oil and reduce dependency on middle eastern oil, wouldn't you? I mean, after all, China is drilling for oil in the Gulf of Mexico but we aren't. Hmmm, I wonder why?

And P.S., we have reduced our dependence on the Middle East fairly successfully -- only 16% of our oil comes from the Persian Gulf. http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_a.htm. If they cut us off cold turkey (there's a pun there I'm sure you will miss)(and cutting us off would cost them money too, btw), it would hurt but it wouldn't bring on a collapse.

I'm more worried about the following two trends:

(1) The US continues to do nothing about growing capacity for refineries (responsible for most seasonal price spikes -- bizarre government regulations require dozens of different formulations based on season and region to make the environMentals happy, this is the bottleneck that causes seasonal price spikes not supply of crude) or drilling for oil in and around its own territory. The US cannot conserve itself out of oil dependence.

(2) Developing countries (specifically India and China) will be increasing demand for oil. With combined populations around 10 times that of the US, and none of the environmental checks and balances or concern for the environmental damage done, both countries will at very least increase demand for already limited oil resources and drive prices up. This also exposes the hypocrisy of things like the Kyoto Accords, which exempted India and China (I guess their pollution is not bad while pollution from the more modern and regulated i.e. cleaner US and Austrailia is bad). If there is to be a resource war, IMO it will be between these two (they are natural enemies, a lot of people in the US don't know India and China hate each other and fought a war in the 1950s), as they fight for resources for their growing economies in the same region of the planet.
 
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HeadRusch said:
Just a couple comments:

One, those of you commenting on "Why do people need to buy these big 4x4's " clearly don't understand the concept of personal choice. I choose to drive a Tahoe for the same reason I choose to eat Red Meat and drink the occasional pint, because I can...
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Clearly morality and ethics do not control your 'personal choice'. "Because I can" is a very dangerous thing to run your life by. "Because I can" basically means you will do whatever you want until the law says otherwise. Because you can carry a gun doesn't mean you can run around firing it off at random. Ever heard the saying "With great power comes great responsibility"? "Because I can" doesn't mean you always should.

HeadRusch said:
Two, those of you mocking the Tahoe as "green car of the year" need to remember something if you don't actually live here in the states: You can't buy diesels here.
No, seriously...this isn't a joke...you can count the number of diesel cars on like one hand. If you came over here and chose 1000 random people, none of them would own a diesel...
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You want more diesels in the US which can get >40mpg? Then demand them! Demand is what drives a consumer-driven marketplace. The grapevine still works. http://www.40mpg.org/

HeadRusch said:
So...for us...40-50mpg is unheard of....15mpg is good for a big V8 in a big Truck and 25 or so is amazingly good for the highway. To take a giant American warhorse Tahoe and put a hybrid in it and have it get 25mpg is a big, big, big deal here. Next it'll be the Corvette..and then...all we'll have are Hybrids. Its conditioning the public to get ready for Hybridization.

If you don't live here in the States, you wont "get it" because you're used to seeing microscopic cars with 1.4l diesel engines that get 40mpg, and everyone you know owns one....here....you couldn't find a diesel car if you looked hard for hours.
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Are you trying to stereotype Americans by saying that they all drive Tahoes and Corvettes? Surely not. What I refuse to believe is that Americans need preparation into hybrid cars (which, getting back to the main argument, is one of the reasons Leno made). An introduction to completely 'green' (non-hybrid) cars perhaps but not hybrid cars. What I "get" is that the US car industry is streets behind the engine efficiency technology of the rest of the world. The Ford Escape Hybrid (http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/escapehybrid/) is your best bet at the moment if you MUST drive an SUV.

Hopefully the situation in the US will improve soon.
 
Mach1 said:
1. Their economies depend on oil sales.

2. If they cut us off, their countries would become glass parking lots.
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The Middle East is changing so bloody fast that in a very short time from now, this will definately not be the case. It has changed so fast already in just the last 5-yrs.

The reason Dubai is building like there's no tomorrow is precisely for the reason they know oil is a limited commodity and there is, well, no tomorrow. More tower cranes per square mile than just about anywhere else on the planet....... they are preparing for the time they have less oil to depend on and are spending the income right now. Is anybody else doing this, seriously?

Qatar and the remaining Emirates are doing the same. Preparing for the future.

Important Dubai investments are being made in areas not reliant on oil, such as its purchase of a large chunk of Citi Group...... oops, American company. It's only because your politians paniced that Dubai doesn't already own your biggest ports previously owned by P&O.

If the Middle East really does cut off the US right now...... no big deal. America has to get out of the idea that it is the saviour to everybody else and everybody depends on it.
 
janstett said:
Followed immediately by use of "to thick" (new verb?) instead of "too thick", "there ways" instead of "their ways", and "to far" which is not a verb, instead of "too far". I almost have to believe this is a trolling attempt as the sentence is chocked full of errors. OMG teh Globull Wereming iz gonna killz us al!!!1!!! People in this country are becoming fricking functionally illiterate. Is it so hard? Don't get me started on the lack of engineering students in the US. With people so damned shallow and illiterate I understand why our engineering schools are flooded with foreign nationals. Students (and I use the term loosely, not losely) are indoctrinated in left-wing political dogma and socialist movements, but are becoming systematically illiterate and incapable of reasoned thought. Logic has no place in the public square anymore -- which is exactly what the Demi-Gods want.
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*applause*
 
Xeon SX said:
most Americans need big vehicles? or u all have boats?
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Around here (Buffalo, NY) many MANY people have boats, jet skis, snowmobiles, or race cars...Or any combination of these. For example, I have a boat and a race car, my parents have a boat, my brother in law has a boat and 2 jet ski's. I know people that have all 4.

I am a bit different as I tow my toys with the "smallest" vehicle possible, while others tow much less weight with much more truck.
 
Best defense of SUV's in my opinion is towing something. Although our family towed our boat with our Mercury Sable. Then again we did so twice I think, and just put it in a harbor slit.

The towing argument does fall apart when you look at some SUVs that are just about being bigger and rarely have anyone else in them other than ditsy blond and matching fashion dog.

The truth is Americans like big cars because big was better. When the rest of the world was shoveling rubble from their streets we had open lanes and cheep steel. Our grandfathers had big cars and their sons grew up wanting the same thing and so it goes.
 
Momentum57 said:
Best defense of SUV's in my opinion is towing something. Although our family towed our boat with our Mercury Sable. Then again we did so twice I think, and just put it in a harbor slit.

The towing argument does fall apart when you look at some SUVs that are just about being bigger and rarely have anyone else in them other than ditsy blond and matching fashion dog.

The truth is Americans like big cars because big was better. When the rest of the world was shoveling rubble from their streets we had open lanes and cheep steel. Our grandfathers had big cars and their sons grew up wanting the same thing and so it goes.
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Woah-woah-woah! "..When the rest of the world was shoveling rubble from their streets we had open lanes and cheep steel.." WTF?! What do American schools teach you about "the rest of the world"???

WRT towing, what you need is something with high torque and good brakes. This is not the sole domain of SUVs.
 
stuvik said:
Woah-woah-woah! "..When the rest of the world was shoveling rubble from their streets we had open lanes and cheep steel.." WTF?! What do American schools teach you about "the rest of the world"???
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I am more concerned about your Australian schools. Didn't they teach you of the devastating Aussie/Kiwi war of the 1950s which left the entirety of the South-Eastern Hemisphere in utter ruin. And I thought education was bad here.
:p
 
Leno couldn't have hit the nail any more on the head with that.

I mean I drive two massive pickup trucks, a Dodge Ram 3500 Mega-Cab, and a Ford F-150 Harley Davidson. But I need the power to tow my families trailers, horse boxes, boats, and all the other crap they keep buying and always look at me to tow for them. It makes sense because why should we change our lifestyles just because some eco-hippies want us to, I think what they are doing now is headed in the right direction, still make massive SUV's/trucks, yet implement fuel-saving measures into their design. Whether it be a hybrid battery or something similar to Chryslers MDS cylinder-deactivation on the 5.7L HEMI V8, you still get all the power, but you get an extra 6-7 miles to the gallon without any shortfall in performance.
 
^Completely agree

I drive a 1997 F150 Super cab 4WD and my friends are always asking me to move stuff, my brother has used it countless times to move his girlfriend, I use it to tow my Jeep.

The Hybrid Tahoe is a step that needs to be taken if we as Americans are ever going to accept drastic change. Even if I drive like an undertaker and never exceed 2200 rpm, I don't get over 15mpg, and thats being optimitic, if I got 20 mpg out of something like my truck I would be amazed.
 
Crazyjeeper said:
I drive a 1997 F150 Super cab 4WD and my friends are always asking me to move stuff, my brother has used it countless times to move his girlfriend, I use it to tow my Jeep.
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I'm sorry, but taken out of context that is hilarious.:lol:
 
From my observations, it's hard to find hybrids that aren't tiny. And with crazy drivers on the highways, I like to avoid tiny cars, even though they're quite adorable. But the use of an suv is undeniable; they're useful. I haul my dogs around quite often, and to have them in that back area instead of my leather seats is better, and I can take passengers as well. I don't have to decide between hauling family or my dogs. So while people have been pointing out hauling toys and boats, I haul the family pet, luggage, and family. XD So I'm all for suvs.

But anyway, the Tahoe at least is a step in the direction admitting that we won't have oil someday. I'm all for bio-fuels, hybrids, whatever they're working on that isn't dependent on oil. But driving in Cali, I have only seen plug stations for electric cars at the city hall. I have yet to find an accessible chain of gas stations that have ethanol or diesel. And, I would love to have a diesel car here, Mercedes makes a bunch!

But the availability of these things, stations with alternative fuels, the option to get a car that runs on alternative fuels is limited. If car makers really want to be eco-friendly, they have to stop limiting the release of these cars. But since these aren't readily available when I step on a car lot, it isn't likely that the average American will make an eco-friendly switch.
 
argatoga said:
I am more concerned about your Australian schools. Didn't they teach you of the devastating Aussie/Kiwi war of the 1950s which left the entirety of the South-Eastern Hemisphere in utter ruin. And I thought education was bad here.
:p
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I'm concerned about Australian schools for entirely different reasons. The spread of "Yo' mamma..." jokes is reaching epidemic proportions :lol:
 
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