Jeremy's Mercedes fanboi-ism

[shellygrrl]

And even his constant flag waving and emphasis on how much he admires British engineering has grown less and less frequent (and annoying) over the years (thank God). Plus he doesn't really seem to live up to this "patriotism" when it comes to cars:

To my knowledge he owns (has owned):
a Volvo XC90, not a Land/Range Rover.

He owns a Range Rover Vogue. Remember the meter of bird feces?

This part of Sascha's argument now rendered invalid.

Merc CLK Black, not a Jag XF-R
Gallardo Spyder, not a Jag XK-R
He would never buy quite a few cars that are quintessentially British - like the Radical or the Caterham 7.

Francie's owned a Caterham. That was referenced by James and Richard in 12x06.

And, as noted, she also owns (or has owned) an Aston Martin V8 Vantage. (See 12x03. It's what Jeremy turned up in.)

And in the "owning a classic luxury car"-bit vs James ... what did he turn up in?

A Mercedes Grosser, which (again, as noted) was a present from Francie.

 

[JimCorrigan]

Nicest review Clarkson gave the Viper was in his "Good the Bad, and the Ugly" DVD which amounted to, its so bad, its good.

He said something similar in actual Top Gear, both about the 1st AND 2nd gen Vipers. Bottom line: he did truly enjoy them, because they were so bonkers.

And yes, the SLS was developed as a joint project with Dodge, as the next Viper, before Merc sold them.

Yes, I am aware of this. That does not make the SLS "just a rebodied Viper", as you put it. Unless you also think of an Audi TT as "just a re-bodied Golf", simply because they share a platform.

But I know, it can't be a Viper, its too good right? I mean the ACR Only holds the lap record around the Nurburgring.....

EDIT: After further investigation, I've found nearly two dozen articles confirming this (those are merely the first three) and only 1 disputing it. That article is highly biased however (reffering to the Viper as a "shed car" and wannabe supercar). Also an additional 5 or 6 articles discussing how the 2013 Viper will be "heavily based" on the SLS. Gee I wonder why?

I never once said the Viper was a bad car. Nor did I say I prefer the SLS. I think the Viper is terrific car. I've never driven one (although I've often wanted to), but every fair-minded review I've read of the most recent incarnation described it as a wonderfully handling car, and much more forgiving and easy to predict at the limits of grip compared to its blood rival Corvette Z06 (the ZR1 wasn't out yet at the time).

The Viper ACR no longer holds the N'Ring record, although it's not far off (for true mass-production vehicles).

 

[Cobol74]

That is not the issue anymore today, though. In current surveys Mercedes dealerships and garages have achieved first place. They improved quality, too, and they are now working on getting back to being the trendsetter for interior trim quality. Of course I can only talk about Germany.

I wonder how long it will take to forget the lousy J?rgen Schrempp years (who definitely was a secret American, btw.)...



Well, the problem with British engineering -- as I percieve it -- is, that it can be absolutely brilliant and breathtaking with single projects but completely fails, when it comes to transforming that brilliance to a larger scale and make it mass market compatible.

British engineering basically is still about very talented single men working in their sheds. And only from time to time something is created, that the world will actually notice and connect with "British engineering". All I can think of offhand, is the Dyson vacuum cleaners.

That is also the reason, why many Ukanians are so nostalgic and cling to the past and to the times, when Britain was ruling the world. And it is the reason, why people like Jeremy Clarkson cling to an outdated offroad box like the Range Rover so much, which somehow doesn't belong in our time anymore: It the one of the few things left to be proud of.

About his passion for AMG: Why not? Everyone has preferences. And so far I didn't see Jeremy trying to do any missionary work in the name of AMG.

Mac British engineering observation you are 100% correct, this is due to lots of reasons chief of which is the education system is shit. The Private schools are turning out individuals who can run an empire (anyone noticed we do not have one any more?) but it does mean that our business men and managers are truly rubbish. (How many speak another language? - buy in yours sell in theirs).

 

[Wallio]

He said something similar in actual Top Gear, both about the 1st AND 2nd gen Vipers. Bottom line: he did truly enjoy them, because they were so bonkers.


Yes, I am aware of this. That does not make the SLS "just a rebodied Viper", as you put it. Unless you also think of an Audi TT as "just a re-bodied Golf", simply because they share a platform.


I never once said the Viper was a bad car. Nor did I say I prefer the SLS. I think the Viper is terrific car. I've never driven one (although I've often wanted to), but every fair-minded review I've read of the most recent incarnation described it as a wonderfully handling car, and much more forgiving and easy to predict at the limits of grip compared to its blood rival Corvette Z06 (the ZR1 wasn't out yet at the time).

The Viper ACR no longer holds the N'Ring record, although it's not far off (for true mass-production vehicles).

Well i interpreted Clarkson's comments differently. Again, whether he likes it or doesn't matter to me. What bothers me is he loves the SLS which IS a rebodied viper, just because you choose to ignore all the links I posted, and the word of the SRT division, doesn't change that fact (read the articles, it is alot more than a shared platform, it WAS the viper, but AMG changed the body and put a V8 in.) Again what would Clarkson say about the Rossion? Its no different than the SLS really, but no merc badge, so I bet he wouldn't like it.

Anyway glad you like the viper, having driven one several times i can tell ya you will never forget it. But that's the topic here, Jezza's merc love affair is.

 

[JimCorrigan]

Well i interpreted Clarkson's comments differently. Again, whether he likes it or doesn't matter to me. What bothers me is he loves the SLS which IS a rebodied viper, just because you choose to ignore all the links I posted, and the word of the SRT division, doesn't change that fact (read the articles, it is alot more than a shared platform, it WAS the viper, but AMG changed the body and put a V8 in.)

I read the articles you posted. I read at least 2 of them many months ago. The only common thread in all of them is that, yes, the SLS started out as the platform for the next viper. The articles report that a) Dodge started the program, b) Merc joined in at some later date, c) Dodge bailed on it around the time they found themselves on financially unstable ground. Regardless of what the viper MAY have become, the SLS would certainly not share panels, build quality, interior materials. And that engine. And the transmission.

Again, platform sharing does not a re-body make.

 

[Sascha77]

And, as noted, she also owns (or has owned) an Aston Martin V8 Vantage. (See 12x03. It's what Jeremy turned up in.)

Well, yes... it may not be a perfect argument I made there, but in essence, it's still valid. If JC had such an "exclusive" hard-on for British products, he certainly wouldn't have bought all those foreign jobs.

Plus: The point about cars like the Caterham still stands. So what if his *wife* owns one and loves it? That's his wife, not him. Also let's not forget that all three agreed that cars like these make you look like an utter dweeb (valid point, IMO, at least off a race-track).

And her giving him the 600 as a present doesn't change the fact that he turned up for the challenge in a Mercedes, not a Bentley, Rolls, Jag, Jensen, Aston, etc. Nor does it change the fact that he obviously likes the car. I mean, if I had the money (and a wife ), I certainly wouldn't buy her a hugely expensive classic car that I know she doesn't like.

I guess what I was trying to say is that even though on the show JC makes a huge deal out of something "being British", when it comes to his own cars, he doesn't seem to care much about its "nationality" but more about its character and wether or not it floats his boat.

S.

 

[Alasondro Alegré]

And, as noted, she also owns (or has owned) an Aston Martin V8 Vantage. (See 12x03. It's what Jeremy turned up in.)

Although the other two turned up in their own Porsches, I don't think that was the Clarkson-household Vantage. It had one of Aston's vanity plates, AML 1/I.

 

[The Spie]

Well, yes... it may not be a perfect argument I made there, but in essence, it's still valid.

No, it wasn't. Your first example proved that you were wrong.

If JC had such an "exclusive" hard-on for British products, he certainly wouldn't have bought all those foreign jobs.

The only person who claimed that was you. The rest of us state, correctly, that Jeremy has a bias toward Mercedes for his daily drives, but will go out of his way to promote British engineering when he finds it meets his high standards.

Plus: The point about cars like the Caterham still stands. So what if his *wife* owns one and loves it? That's his wife, not him.

Pretty much every TG fan knows who wears the pants in that family. Hint: it ain't Jeremy.

Also let's not forget that all three agreed that cars like these make you look like an utter dweeb (valid point, IMO, at least off a race-track).

For Jeremy, that's a logical conclusion. Anyone who's six-foot-five would look like a dweeb in something as low-slung and open as a Caterham.

And her giving him the 600 as a present doesn't change the fact that he turned up for the challenge in a Mercedes, not a Bentley, Rolls, Jag, Jensen, Aston, etc. Nor does it change the fact that he obviously likes the car. I mean, if I had the money (and a wife ), I certainly wouldn't buy her a hugely expensive classic car that I know she doesn't like.

Did Francie buy this for Jeremy or did Jeremy buy this for Francie? Make up your mind. By the way, Francie bought it for Jeremy.

And, yes, it does change the fact that he showed up in a Grosser. The challenge involved vintage cars that the presenters actually owned. Jeremy owned a Grosser, so he showed up in it. Jeremy's shown time and time again that he's very lairy about vintage British cars when it comes to maintenance cost. Witness his statements about E-Types, MGs, etc. James, however, has owned multiple vintage British cars, but only of a certain type.

I guess what I was trying to say is that even though on the show JC makes a huge deal out of something "being British", when it comes to his own cars, he doesn't seem to care much about its "nationality" but more about its character and wether or not it floats his boat.

And if you were trying to say that, you did it in the wrong way, using an invalid argument.

 

[Aston Martin]

I'd rather see a different Merc every week, instead of the same 911.

 

[TC]

I never really cared about his bias for Mercs. He always said that the most important quality a car can have is being "a laugh". He rags on about Mercedes being horrible quite often I think. I was just watching his review of the BMW 1M and he made a comment about how "falling down a flight of stairs isn't as uncomfortable as my Mercedes." And he's often talked about how bad the dealerships were and how often they break down and need service, etc.

 

[simbaleo]

And yes, the SLS was developed as a joint project with Dodge, as the next Viper, before Merc sold them.

Not really. The Viper platform was used for component testing of the SLS, namely as it's the only chassis even remotely close to the SLS design that they had available at the time.

The mule and production SLS platform is a space frame using cast and extruded aluminum parts. The Viper chassis is steel, much stronger and much heavier. None of the suspension, driveline, electronic or body parts are in any way related.

As to Clarkson on the Viper, he's been quite kind to it. Even in 5x03, which was right at the peak of Top Gear US bashing, he gave it a pretty enthusiastic and even handed review.

 

[Mr. Nice]

Not really. The Viper platform was used for component testing of the SLS, namely as it's the only chassis even remotely close to the SLS design that they had available at the time.

Mercedes-Benz SLS Started Out as the Next-Generation Dodge Viper

Separated at Birth: Dodge Viper and Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Gullwing


Chrysler Firepower Concept

Chrysler ME4-12

 

[simbaleo]

Mercedes-Benz SLS Started Out as the Next-Generation Dodge Viper

Separated at Birth: Dodge Viper and Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Gullwing


Chrysler Firepower Concept

Chrysler ME4-12

You realize these are all rumor mill stories, right? They may well have intended to share platforms between the SLS and Viper back when DaimlerChrysler still existed, however the current SLS and 4th/5th gen Vipers share absolutely no components.

 

[Mr. Nice]

You realize these are all rumor mill stories, right? They may well have intended to share platforms between the SLS and Viper back when DaimlerChrysler still existed, however the current SLS and 4th/5th gen Vipers share absolutely no components.

None of those stories claim that there is component sharing between the Viper and the SLS... Ed Hellwig and Edmunds Inside line are both respected names in journalism. You're on the losing end of this argument.

 

[Wallio]

Give it up Mr. Nice, I posted three links last page, and as I said typing in "Is the SLS a Viper?" into Bing gets you 20+ limnks confirming it, but some people refuse to believe that Merc would lower itself to the Viper's level. Oh well we know, and Merc deep down knows, thats all that matters.

 

[WillDAQ]

typing in "Is the SLS a Viper?" into Bing gets you 20+ limnks confirming it

I was going to support you, but that's not how facts or the internet works and to actually use that as part of an argument makes you look stupid.

I'm sure I can find plenty of links saying we faked the moon landings.

 

[Wallio]

From Autocar magazine and Edmunds Inside Line? Really? Grow up.

 

[JimCorrigan]

None of those stories claim that there is component sharing between the Viper and the SLS... Ed Hellwig and Edmunds Inside line are both respected names in journalism. You're on the losing end of this argument.

No, he isn't. Please read my post earlier. Those links do mention that the SLS did start out on the platform "as the next Viper", and that the two cars were then developed concurrently for a while until Dodge pulled out, at which point the project was completed by Mercedes. None of those reports indicate just how much, or how little, the SLS components actually have in common with what would have been the next Viper. Even the C/D blog you posted has this to say: "While we doubt the finished product shares much more than a memory with its former corporate cousin, it?s hard to deny the Gullwing?s Viper-esque proportions?likely the reason the Viper was used to hide its identity in the first place."

And your links about the Firepower! concept and the ME4-12 do nothing to support your assertion, unless you are assuming that those of us in disagreement with you are stating that there's no way Chrysler could even build such a machine (which I certainly haven't done, and I believe no one else has, either).

Give it up Mr. Nice, I posted three links last page, and as I said typing in "Is the SLS a Viper?" into Bing gets you 20+ limnks confirming it, but some people refuse to believe that Merc would lower itself to the Viper's level. Oh well we know, and Merc deep down knows, thats all that matters.

You posted the same links he did. They contain the same bold headlines "SLS STARTED OUT AS THE NEXT VIPER", but the content is sorely lacking any suggestion that the similarities go beyond the initial platform and some development (we don't know how much). This isn't about "Merc sinking to Viper's level" as you put it (strawman). it's about factual information. No one disagrees that the SLS started on a Viper platform. That much is certain. Beyond that, not much *is* known, but it is a safe guess that the engines, suspension, transmission would certainly be different, based on the known components of each car.

 

[Mr. Nice]

The Firepower and the ME4-12 only backup my point that Dodge had developed a Viper related Chrysler concept and an aluminum chassis prototype.

The assertion that the SLS began life as a Viper project within Dodge is not my own, it comes from multiple sources, including the Inside Line source that was written by Ed Hellwig.

Stop having a tantrum and get a life, dude.

 

[JimCorrigan]

The Firepower and the ME4-12 only backup my point that Dodge had developed a Viper related Chrysler concept and an aluminum chassis prototype.

The assertion that the SLS began life as a Viper project within Dodge is not my own, it comes from multiple sources, including the Inside Line source that was written by Ed Hellwig.

Stop having a tantrum and get a life, dude.

I never once denied that the SLS began life as a Viper. I only question just how much of the Viper is in the finished product. Your own links support my reasoning.

And since I never hurled insults nor "typed" in a hysterical manner, I don't know where this comment about "having a tantrum" is coming about. I can only assume you don't like having an ongoing debate, and wish to end it prematurely. As to "having a life", you inserted yourself into this discussion as well. Therefore, one of us is the kettle, and the other is the pot.