London Burning

nomix

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one video, more than one video, how many police is that out of the 16,000 on the streets of London yesterday? maybe a half dozen who are going too far. Hardly a representative number.

I do agree with you on the mentality though.
When I write "it's about more than one video", I'm not talking about the numbers of videoes. I'm talking of my point being about more than this video, more than any videos out there, it was, and still is, primarily about the mentality, not the videos. I feel like a cross between Prezza and Boris, being misunderstood this much in two pages. :lol:

Any reports from this evening, the TV News seems to be just rehashing old stuff. Seems like it is all quiet. Has the PM won? :lol:
I'm just waiting for him to say "the Lady's not for turning", and then something about "it is an attempt to exchange the rule of the mob for the rule of law, it must not succeed". That last quote might not be accurate, it's been years since I heard that speech.

Tbh., Blair actually made a better Thatcher than Cameron. Now, that's ironical. I suppose.
 

jack_christie

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I'm just waiting for him to say "the Lady's not for turning", and then something about "it is an attempt to exchange the rule of the mob for the rule of law, it must not succeed". That last quote might not be accurate, it's been years since I heard that speech.

Tbh., Blair actually made a better Thatcher than Cameron. Now, that's ironical. I suppose.
Boris did such a quick u-turn to today on police cuts he agreed with Cameron, Cameron will probably have to do the same. The mayor must have had a g-suit on, cause he didn't black out when he said it.
?If you ask me whether I think there is a case for cutting police budgets in light of these events, then my answer is no,?
http://blogs.wsj.com/source/2011/08/10/london-mayor-causes-ructions-for-u-k-government-over-police-cuts/?mod=google_news_blog
 

Heathrow

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^
Boris goes a bit off topic sometimes, and gets into trouble.

In fairness he does have a population bigger than a lot of countries with a budget to match, but he has to toe the conservative party line. Not a maverick more a loose-ish cannon.

I'm just waiting for him to say "the Lady's not for turning", and then something about "it is an attempt to exchange the rule of the mob for the rule of law, it must not succeed". That last quote might not be accurate, it's been years since I heard that speech.

Tbh., Blair actually made a better Thatcher than Cameron. Now, that's ironical. I suppose.
True! I am waiting for something Thatcherish of Churchillian, but the shit has stopped hitting the fan since Cameron got back from the beach. So, he has probably done OK here, I suppose.

* * *

On a local note from the 'burbs here, I went through a local shoping mall today, where the security guards were two or three time more in evidence than usual and on the local streets there was lots of hi-viz local foot patrol Police about.

Reasurance and presence, I reckon.
 

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Nottingham POLICE station, firebombed.



Lets assume community service all round.
 

GraemeH

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The hell we don't. They don't wear hoodies (mostly because it's too damn hot), but we've got inner city 'unemployed thuggish youths' by the truckload. Same general character type.

One of the 'uniforms' for that type here is the white T-shirt or athletic team jersey over black or dark knee-length shorts, usually baggy. Believe me, we have them.
Nah they're not the same. I've had to interact with plenty of them when shopping for 'medicine' in LA and Phoenix and so on during my trips over there. The two Texans I work with here were the ones to initially tell me there's no analog for our kind of scum there, and I found that to be true, at least in the 3 states I visited. The difference is the motivations; the kind of people rioting here are even dumber than your unemployed thugs. Whatever resistance you throw at them they'll just see it as better sport. Even when the police capture them and give them a thorough beating in the quiet cells, they just see baiting the police as better and better sport. The important thing at the moment is to prevent harm to innocent people and damage to their property (by having a presence before the flashpoint occurs and by jailing as many perpetrators as possible). Playing Judge Dredd would just bring them out in higher numbers more motivated to cause damage.
 

Spectre

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Nah they're not the same. I've had to interact with plenty of them when shopping for 'medicine' in LA and Phoenix and so on during my trips over there. The two Texans I work with here were the ones to initially tell me there's no analog for our kind of scum there, and I found that to be true, at least in the 3 states I visited. The difference is the motivations; the kind of people rioting here are even dumber than your unemployed thugs. Whatever resistance you throw at them they'll just see it as better sport. Even when the police capture them and give them a thorough beating in the quiet cells, they just see baiting the police as better and better sport.
No, we do have them, and they are as described. Typically found in Chicago, Baltimore and Philadelphia, places like that. Used to be found in NYC, but not so much any more. Much rarer further south as Hispanic gang members kick their arses for sport, so you generally don't find too many of them south of the Mason-Dixon line, though there are many in California. See the Offspring song Come Out And Play, for example. "You're under 18, you won't be doing any time."

We do have them. They're just nowhere near as prevalent as they are in London - or were the last time I was there, anyway. We're starting to have our own problems with them, as mentioned upthread. See the recent Wisconsin assault on the state fair and the Philadelphia flash mobs.

On a slightly lighter note, I came up with this graphic - the background is that after the 1992 LA Riots, there was a guy selling shirts with an "LA Triathlon" graphic indicating the three activities as being "shoot, loot and scoot" - I was inspired to make a similar one for the London riots. MWF helped a bit with the BritSlang. :D


Yes, I've got a reserved seat on the HellBus.

Looks like it might be calming down some, but now the victims are pissed off at the police, per the Telegraph. Looks like the rains helped, but dunno if this is just a lull or if it's going away.
There was, however, a brief flare up in Eltham, south-east London, as Andrew Hough reports:

Vigilantes defied police orders last night and vented their anger against officers as they attempted to mobilise their own forces to deal with rioters in London.

Riot police were hit with ?missiles? including bottles as more than 1,000 officers battled with dozens of middle-aged men on the streets Eltham, south-east London.

Witnesses reported that many of the 200 men were chanting in support of the English Defence League, the controversial Right-wing group.
Also, the police are busily demonstrating the largely useless nature of the camera surveillance system today with the release of some "wanted" pictures.





Of all those photos, maybe two are identifiable.
 
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MacGuffin

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After having read many of the postings here, I have to say: Yes, physical violence is bad. Very bad. It must be fought or -- much better -- prevented. There is a reason for such violence and that reason must be found and eliminated.

Much more dangerous on the long run, though, I consider verbal violence. And that's what worries me, because as I understand it, the far right now tries to take profit from the riots.

And it would be even worse, if they succeeded.
 

GraemeH

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After some courts stayed open through the night it's been as little as 24 hours for many between being arrested and being tried and found guilty and taken to prison. One got an 8 month sentence for stealing clothes. So not so much the "they'll get community service" people have been suggesting. Nottingham council has also threatened to evict anyone involved.


Uh-oh, the rioting has spread up my way;

SHIT MEET FAN
 
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Goose+

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A fairly insightful article in the telegraph about local communities standing up for themselves:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8693558/Immigrants-love-this-country-more-than-we-do.html

Across the country, ethnic communities have emerged as the heroes of the week?s riots ? and, in the case of the three Muslim youths who were killed as they defended their neighbourhood in Birmingham, its martyrs. They have shown themselves to be not just as law-abiding as the Anglo-Saxons, but far more inspiring.
As others have already mentioned, the sikh community in particular have shown themselves to be truly inspiring throughout this crisis.

A great deal many of the rioters are caucasian trash who would rather blame immigration, than seek meaningful employment. Shame on the lot of them. An example of one below:


I'm not a violent man, but after seeing that clip on the BBC news, I've never wanted to punch someone so quickly.
 
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Labcoatguy

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The key to the oppression of the lower classes is to feed them a steady diet of distractions, reality television and other low brow entertainment is a panacea for their shitty lives.
Also, never ever allow the cost of daily necessities to go up, especially food (and nowadays gasoline).
 

GRtak

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The key to the oppression of the lower classes is to feed them a steady diet of distractions, reality television and other low brow entertainment is a panacea for their shitty lives.

Those tacits are not only used on the "lower classes". BTW, would you mind defining "lower classes"?


EDIT:

UPDATE 1-UK may use army in future riots-Cameron

Aug 11 (Reuters) - Britain will crack down on gangs and may call in army support if this week's riots are repeated, Prime Minister David Cameron said on Thursday, saying he would not allow a "culture of fear" to exist on the streets.

The government will also give the police powers to demand people remove face coverings after many looters who ransacked shops during riots in London and other English cities this week wore masks to avoid being identified.

Anyone whose home or business was damaged in the riots, in which four people were killed, may seek compensation under the Riot Damages Act, Cameron said.

"The whole country has been shocked by the most appalling scenes of people looting, violence, vandalising and thieving. It is criminality pure and simple. And there is absolutely no excuse for it," Cameron told parliament, which was called in to emergency session to debate the riots.

Rioters looted shops, set fire to buildings and vehicles and attacked police, harming Britain's image less than a year before London hosts the 2012 Olympics.

"We will not put up with this in our country. We will not allow a culture of fear to exist on our streets. And we will do whatever it takes to restore law and order and to rebuild our communities," Cameron said.

Saying the fightback had begun, Cameron pledged the authorities would hunt down looters and rioters.

"To the lawless minority, the criminals who've taken what they can get. I say this: We will track you down, we will find you, we will charge you, we will punish you. You will pay for what you have done," he said.

Police numbers in London, which have been almost tripled to 16,000 to quell the riots, will remain at that number through the weekend, Cameron said.

He said he would not rule out calling in army support -- an extraordinary event in Britain -- if there were more disturbances.

"It is the government's responsibility to make sure that every future contingency is looked at, including whether there are tasks that the army could undertake that might free up more police for the front line," he said.

Cameron pledged action against street gangs, saying there was evidence they had coordinated attacks on police and looting. The government will make combatting them a national priority, drawing on the success of cities such as Boston in the United States, he said.

He said the government would give the police the power to remove people's face coverings when they were suspected to be involved in crime.

"On dealing with crowds, we are also looking at the use of existing dispersal powers and whether any wider power of curfew is necessary," he said.

Some local authorities already have powers to evict convicted rioters from social housing and Cameron said he wanted to see more local councils doing this.

Calling for action to mend Britain's "broken society", Cameron said the country needed a benefit system that rewarded work, more discipline in schools and action to deal with disruptive families.

So they are going to give police the "power" to have somebody that is thought to be involved in a crime and wearing a face covering to remove it. I don't see a criminal following the law when they are already breaking the law.

Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in the cops being allowed to wear masks, or coverings?
 
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jmsprovan

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Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in the cops being allowed to wear masks, or coverings?
British police mostly only wear protective headgear, at any other time its just the usual Peaked cap.

Its not like in continental Europe where they have to wear full head gasmasks to protect against the tear gas.
 

avanti

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On a slightly lighter note, I came up with this graphic - the background is that after the 1992 LA Riots, there was a guy selling shirts with an "LA Triathlon" graphic indicating the three activities as being "shoot, loot and scoot" - I was inspired to make a similar one for the London riots. MWF helped a bit with the BritSlang. :D


Yes, I've got a reserved seat on the HellBus.
Awesome, that should be on a t-shirt! :lol:
 
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