Loveparade 2010: 20 people dead :(

idk

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There are some posts about it in the random thoughts threat, but I think this deserves its own...

What can I say :cry: I'm shocked and pissed :mad:

I'm one of the biggest freak and fan of "Techno" in this forum and I attend a lot of big festivals with a lot of people. But this is just crazy.
I hope no one of my friends got hurt there :? My deepest sympathies for the dead and everybody that is connected to them in any way. I know from personal experience.. on a big event like this you just rely on the organization of the event. There is really no way to judge if something is safe.. you just have to rely on that the people in charge did their job well... like when you board a plane.. you have to rely that it's properly built. But when I see this.. i can't believe it:

Until now 19 people died in a mass panic in a tunnel that obviously was the only access to the festival area where apparently more than 1 million people were having a party

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-57495.html

0273_543_31732878-543x199.jpg


http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/07/24/germany.panic.deaths/index.html#fbid=mKcf1OwH1av

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128740605


I guess it is the wrong time to rant now.. but I have to do it anyway.

So what I've read now the area was meant for about 500k people... but they let more then a million in :rolleyes: Because they thought it would work.. somehow like it always did.

I never was at a German Loveparade. I was too young when it was still in Berlin and I really wanted to go there. Berlin was great. It just had the infrastructure to it. I wasn't a big fan of when it moved to the "Ruhrgebiet". None of the city but maybe Cologne has the capacity to do it. In the last couple of years that already caused a lot of trouble. Last year it was even canceled kind of last minute because they realized they don't have the capacity to do it. But the Loveparade was commercialized in a rather 'offensive' way when you're a real Raver and not just a 'Tourist' and imo it was just a matter of time until something goes wrong because they wanted to make it happen any possible and not reasonable way.

It's just such an incredible negligence. bah I really don't know what to say anymore. I just feel sad. A lot of young people died just trying to have fun. The host failed, the police failed, the city failed... everyone failed.

Next week is Nature One Festival where I'm gonna go to. It's with about 70.000 people, so only 7% of the Loveparade, but I guess there will be an awkward feeling :blink:
 
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Eunos_Cosmo

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Insane...how the hell did they let that many people in? That had to have been waaaay against fire code. Do they have such a thing in Germany?
 

idk

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I honestly don't know. I wasn't there. But obviously it was blocked by fences

[video=youtube;-2onoJLq2-8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2onoJLq2-8[/video]



[video=youtube;y-6ii9fcnac]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-6ii9fcnac[/video]
 
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Zesty

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WTF? That's incredibly horrible. Someone obviously wasn't doing their job properly, and this is what happens! :cry:

It's know it's nothing compared to this, but when I was 18, I was at a nightclub with a couple of friends in the Melbourne CBD (which shall remain nameless), when there was a crush towards exits after a group of idiots started fighting in a crowded space and other people just wanted to get out of the way. At least fifty-sixty people in various states of inebriation decided to all move at once. Some poor girl fell over and was almost trampled had some quick-thinking guys not somehow hauled her up as people pressed into a narrow hallway that should never had been the only entry/exit point for the amount of people they were getting in there most nights. That place has since had a major re-design inside, but I haven't been back. That was scary enough - this is beyond imagining! :blink:
 

MacGuffin

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Insane...how the hell did they let that many people in? That had to have been waaaay against fire code. Do they have such a thing in Germany?

Well, as it has already been said: The event was too big for the city of Duisburg. They decided to set up the event on the area of a former freight depot, which isn't an open space but framed by Autobahn and railway tracks. So the only access was that street, which ran underneath the railway tracks through that tunnel. Here's a shot from Google Earth of the area:

4825488127_0b48d77b1f_o.jpg


The disaster obviously started, when arriving people collided with leaving people in that tunnel and somehow a panic broke out. After the panic broke out, they immediately opened the emergency exists on the field above but didn't stop the event to prevent an even bigger panic.

I wouldn't be surprised if this now killed the German Love Parade once and for all, since I cannot imagine any city will take the risk again and allow such an event.
 
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AiR

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Just move it back to Berlin, or out into some field instead of a freight depot.
 

MacGuffin

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Easier said than done. Berlin has had enough of the waste and pollution 1+ million people produced during the event. Duisburg hosted the event for image reasons, to gain a reputation of being cool. They probably regret it by now.

Where in a field could you host and supply a million or more people? We're not talking about some rock festival here with 50.000 spectators, who camp on a field. If you'd put 1000 mobile toilets there, it'd still be only one for a thousand people each (!)

No, it would have to be a spacious center of a big town. Berlin was ideal because of the large and long boulevard running from west to east throughout the city and the big Tiergarten park. No other Geman city offers similar conditions, they're all narrower and tighter. And such masses are unmanagable in tighter areas, as the current event shows.

The only place I could think of, is if they use a piece of Autobahn, which would have to be closed for traffic for a week or so. But where?
 
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idk

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If that was so easy... The Loveparade should have ended in Berlin.


PS: They didn't exactly have "enough" Toilets now I think. Honestly I don't know how that was managed. I was at the Streetparade in Zurich a couple of times. It also has more then a million people. But you just pee on a tree or so there.. lol

What I don't get... if the Autobahn nearby was closed anyway why wasn't that used as entry from the beginning. I guess they wanted a free emergeny route, but well.. maybe just from one side or so.

But it's won't help anyone to speculate.

Where in a field could you host and supply a million or more people? We're not talking about some rock festival here with 50.000 spectators, who camp on a field. If you'd put 1000 mobile toilets there, it'd still be only one for a thousand people each (!)

Just thinking about the necessary space I can only think of hosting it at some regional airport that will be closed for the day... But airports that are not important enough that they can be closed don't have the infrastructure to get the people there.

I've heard from a couple of people now that Cologne might be the best choise. But I also don't know because I've never been there. But there are a couple of big events like Carnival.
 
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D-Fence

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These fucking assholes even kept deleting the first youtube videos of it.....but you can't censor such stuff with >1 million young people around where almost everyone has a phone with cam.

These completely STUPID people blocked off the tunnel EXIT instead of the ENTRANCE so more and more people pushed in and the people in the tunnel couldn't breathe and were stacked 5 people high according to eye witnesses. Many of my friends were there, most of them got out before it happened, one friend of mine passed out because she couldn't breathe any more and was basically dragged out of that tunnel by two of her friends. I hope whoever planned this gets the full treatment of the law for this disaster, but honestly, seeing that the town of Duisburg is mainly responsible for it and the party comitee, my guess is the party commitee gets slapped and the people responsible in the town who actually planned the site walk.

I disagree with the "it does not work in the Ruhrgebiet" part, it worked bloody well in Essen, because there were many many ways to get there as it was in the town center and not some random ass buildsite!

189225S.jpeg

loveparade2007escenario.jpg

Love-Parade-2007-Essen.jpg
 

idk

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I'm wondering who deleted it.

PS: Yah nothing happened in Essen.. so it worked. But all I know who were there said it was... too full.
 

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Agreed. Those responsible for this utterly needless catastrophe need to be brought to account and should serve seriously long jail sentences.

Sadly blame is likely to be spread, the buck will be passed and all we can expect is a few slapped wrists.
 

DanRoM

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The only place I could think of, is if they use a piece of Autobahn, which would have to be closed for traffic for a week or so. But where?
Dortmund did exactly that. Well, not exactly, it wasn't for a week and it was the B 1, but the principle holds.
 

idk

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At the moment there is a press conference. The Loveparade has now been officially renounced. There won't be another. Of course they are saying a lot of blabla now... Heads will roll for that...
 

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Has anyone seen the press conference?

Both the Mayor and the "Panic Scientist" were like: It wasn't too full and we planned for everything except for people falling down the hills trying to get in it is not our fault it is the fault of the people.

I want to kill them, both.
 

idk

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Of course they can't say anything other then that now.... I wonder what they really think... bah :( These bastards.... they avoided all the answers why there were over a million people on a area for a couple of hundred thousand

In Memory of better times:

 
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Richmondgal

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It's such a shame that a well loved Festival had to ended this way with devastating consequences. I hope those who died will be avenged.
 

D-Fence

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Die Katastrophe bei der Love Parade provoziert schwere Vorw?rfe gegen den Veranstalter und die Stadt. Die Staatsanwaltschaft hat sich eingeschaltet, pr?ft die Genehmigungsunterlagen - nach SPIEGEL-ONLINE-Informationen warnte die Polizei vor der Millionenparty, scheiterte aber mit einem umfassenden Sicherheitskonzept.

Duisburg - Wie riskant war das Sicherheitskonzept f?r die Love Parade? Polizei und Feuerwehr in Duisburg hatten nach SPIEGEL-ONLINE-Informationen eine eigene, weiterreichende Planung f?r die Millionenparty entwickelt - mit der sie sich allerdings in der Stadt nicht durchgesetzt haben.

Nach Angaben aus der Duisburger Polizeif?hrung wollten die Experten die Teilnehmer "gro?fl?chiger" anreisen lassen und unbedingt verhindern, dass es zu einer Nadel?hrsituation kommen kann. Der Plan h?tte einen weitaus gr??eren Personaleinsatz erfordert und sei von der Stadtverwaltung schlie?lich verworfen worden. Tats?chlich bildete sich dann an diesem Samstag ein Nadel?hr, mit fatalen Folgen - in einem langen Tunnel, der zu dem Festivalgel?nde am Alten G?terbahnhof f?hrte, steckten viele Teilnehmer fest. Jugendliche ?berrannten ein Gitter, st?rmten eine ungesicherte Treppe und auf einen Mast, einige st?rzten ab. Daraufhin brach nach Angaben der Polizei die Massenpanik aus, in der 19 Menschen zwischen 20 und 40 Jahren starben und mehr als 300 verletzt wurden.

Mitarbeiter der Staatsanwaltschaft und der Polizei haben am Sonntagmorgen die Planungsunterlagen f?r die Techno-Party beschlagnahmt. Man habe die Akten ?bergeben, sagte der Duisburger Oberb?rgermeister Adolf Sauerland (CDU) bei einer Pressekonferenz im Duisburger Rathaus. Sicherheitsdezernent Wolfgang Rabe sagte, sein ganzes Dezernat wolle "l?ckenlose Untersuchungen". Es liegen Strafanzeigen vor, laut der "Neuen Ruhr/Neuen Rhein Zeitung" unter anderem von einem Feuerwehrmann, der genau vor der Gefahrenstelle gewarnt hat, an der das Ungl?ck passiert ist.



So both Police AND Firefighters warned about this exact thing happening and developed an own security plan with more entries which has been rejected by the town because it was too expensive/needed to much manpower. Great.
 

MacGuffin

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I see. So according to the officials the safety concept itself was okay -- the problem were "individual weaknesses".

It's been a long time since I last read such bullshit.
 

shad_68

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So both Police AND Firefighters warned about this exact thing happening and developed an own security plan with more entries which has been rejected by the town because it was too expensive/needed to much manpower. Great.

What a bunch of scumbags. :mad:
 
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