Marijuana: Legal or Illegal?
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Firecat
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My first post on these boards, may as well be in this thread.
Most of the points raised are good. I'm pro-legalization even though I don't smoke personally. I find it extremely hypocritcal that alcohol is legal and can be advertised on tv, yet marijuana (which is not nearly as harmful as alcohol) is illegal in the United States. The media and others like to paint smokers as losers, potheads, jobless punks (the stereotypical view)...but I know a lot of professionals that toke. Medical benefits or not, the government should not restrict people from doing things that don't infringe on others rights. At the least, it should be decriminalized. That would also put less of a strain on the prison system, which are packed with non-violent offenders.
Most of the points raised are good. I'm pro-legalization even though I don't smoke personally. I find it extremely hypocritcal that alcohol is legal and can be advertised on tv, yet marijuana (which is not nearly as harmful as alcohol) is illegal in the United States. The media and others like to paint smokers as losers, potheads, jobless punks (the stereotypical view)...but I know a lot of professionals that toke. Medical benefits or not, the government should not restrict people from doing things that don't infringe on others rights. At the least, it should be decriminalized. That would also put less of a strain on the prison system, which are packed with non-violent offenders.
jeffy777
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Since this topic has been dug up by Firecat, I thought I would share that I am one of the top groups that are eligable to receive medical marijuana (I am a parapelgic because my spinal cord was injured in a car accident. It's supposed to help with my back pain and muscle spasms) But I choose not to smoke anymore becasue it makes me feel to dopey and lazy 
I was a real pothead before the accident and my girlfriend was actually high when she wrecked the car, sooooooo, I've had enough weed in my life. If other people want to smoke, that's their choice.
I was a real pothead before the accident and my girlfriend was actually high when she wrecked the car, sooooooo, I've had enough weed in my life. If other people want to smoke, that's their choice.
Firecat
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Interesting. A lot of people tout the medicinal benefits of smoking, I guess it depends on the situation. Sometimes I think people do that (argue the medical benefits) even though they aren't exactly in it for that. I still believe that regardless of the possible medical benefits, it should be legal...because there really isn't a good reason for it not to be (from a pro-legalization standpoint, not a pro-smoking standpoint because it isn't exactly good for you).
bellows
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bone said:i say legalize it! duh
marijuana can be used for LOADS of stuff, you can make clothes out of it, you can use it for animalfood, you can make paper out of it, you can extract oil for you car to run on, ....
Imo these are the most important reasons for the illegality on marihuana!
Oilbarons surely had a spoon in the soup for a long time, esp about the oilthingy!
Maybe one day after the corruption things might change.
PS : haha i'm so happy to be european. at least we are allowed to have a personal opinion! (or are just able to think for themselves)
Jostyrostelli
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bellows said:bone said:i say legalize it! duh
marijuana can be used for LOADS of stuff, you can make clothes out of it, you can use it for animalfood, you can make paper out of it, you can extract oil for you car to run on, ....
Imo these are the most important reasons for the illegality on marihuana!
Oilbarons surely had a spoon in the soup for a long time, esp about the oilthingy!
Maybe one day after the corruption things might change.
PS : haha i'm so happy to be european. at least we are allowed to have a personal opinion! (or are just able to think for themselves)
Really? Wow...should try that sometime..
jensked
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It's rediculous to say that weed isn't dangerous.
When you smoke just 1 joint, you are stoned. There's nothing like half-stoned. When you drink a glass of alcohol, you're not drunk.
I think to become the same effect of 1 joint by drinking alcolhol, you have to drink 10 glasses of beer (I know, it's not the same kind of effect, but people keep making comparisons between alcohol and weed, so I can do that to). And when you do that on a daily basis, you're an alcoholist.
But that isn't all.
Research has proven that weed has some remaining effects after a while.
Researchers have been keeping an eye on about 1000 smokers for about 20 years. They concluded that regular weedsmokers have more chance to become schitzofrenic or depressif.
When you smoke, your mind comes in a certain state. THC makes your brains make anandamide, and this is the material which makes you depressif. When you smoke a lot, your brains keep producing this in a higher amount then a normal person.
I really can't believe people who say that marijuana should be legalized because of the economy.
If your country has to become a better country because of the legalization of weed, I think there's someting really wrong!
When you smoke just 1 joint, you are stoned. There's nothing like half-stoned. When you drink a glass of alcohol, you're not drunk.
I think to become the same effect of 1 joint by drinking alcolhol, you have to drink 10 glasses of beer (I know, it's not the same kind of effect, but people keep making comparisons between alcohol and weed, so I can do that to). And when you do that on a daily basis, you're an alcoholist.
But that isn't all.
Research has proven that weed has some remaining effects after a while.
Researchers have been keeping an eye on about 1000 smokers for about 20 years. They concluded that regular weedsmokers have more chance to become schitzofrenic or depressif.
When you smoke, your mind comes in a certain state. THC makes your brains make anandamide, and this is the material which makes you depressif. When you smoke a lot, your brains keep producing this in a higher amount then a normal person.
I really can't believe people who say that marijuana should be legalized because of the economy.
If your country has to become a better country because of the legalization of weed, I think there's someting really wrong!
///M
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:lol:
Seriously. Quit at life my friend.
You're trying to tell me 10 beers = one joint? My friend, medical users who smoke because they HAVE to, smoke 5 joints when they wake up in the morning. They don't get high. There's such a thing as tolerance. One week, I can get really fucked off a joint, the next week, it won't hit me as hard because I have been smoking alot.
Also, any study on marijuana conducted "20 years" ago isn't too strong of evidence. First of all, show me that study. Second of all, let me show you that the assholes who did that study are nothing but idiots. I beg you, find me ONE fucking person that died directly due to smoking marijuana. There is not one such event in all the medical textbooks.
I'm going to get back to you on anandamide, because I have to go now. Just to let you know, you're talking out of your ass on this one. THC doesn't trigger the production of anandamides, THC only binds to anandamide-receptors in the brain.
And there's no such thing as depressif.
Have a good day.
Seriously. Quit at life my friend.
You're trying to tell me 10 beers = one joint? My friend, medical users who smoke because they HAVE to, smoke 5 joints when they wake up in the morning. They don't get high. There's such a thing as tolerance. One week, I can get really fucked off a joint, the next week, it won't hit me as hard because I have been smoking alot.
Also, any study on marijuana conducted "20 years" ago isn't too strong of evidence. First of all, show me that study. Second of all, let me show you that the assholes who did that study are nothing but idiots. I beg you, find me ONE fucking person that died directly due to smoking marijuana. There is not one such event in all the medical textbooks.
I'm going to get back to you on anandamide, because I have to go now. Just to let you know, you're talking out of your ass on this one. THC doesn't trigger the production of anandamides, THC only binds to anandamide-receptors in the brain.
And there's no such thing as depressif.
Have a good day.
jeffy777
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lol, one joint = 10 beers :lol:
And I never smoked 5 joints on a wake and bake for medical marijuana. 2 would get me quite stoned, especially if I smoked them all myself, which was very rare. But alcohol is much worse. You can lose control with booze, but I've never known a person to pass out or anything like that with herb. No puking or hangovers either. I smoked for about 10 years and called it quits cause it does make you sluggish as the years go by, atleast that's what it did to me....
But should it be illegal? If alcohol is legal than weed should be since it is much less harmful. But I'm not a smoker anymore, so you won't find me wacing the "Legalize It!" banner. I'm pretty much neutral: people can make their own decisions.
And I never smoked 5 joints on a wake and bake for medical marijuana. 2 would get me quite stoned, especially if I smoked them all myself, which was very rare. But alcohol is much worse. You can lose control with booze, but I've never known a person to pass out or anything like that with herb. No puking or hangovers either. I smoked for about 10 years and called it quits cause it does make you sluggish as the years go by, atleast that's what it did to me....
But should it be illegal? If alcohol is legal than weed should be since it is much less harmful. But I'm not a smoker anymore, so you won't find me wacing the "Legalize It!" banner. I'm pretty much neutral: people can make their own decisions.
///M
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But you can't compare it to 10 beers. Also, I have yet to meet a person that can smoke daily, and still get as high as you describe. If such a low tolerance exists, I truly envy the person that has it.
This dude was talking about there's no such thing as half-stoned. What do you call smoking a bowl instead of taking two or three bowls? If I'm not mistaken, what you're trying to say is that there's no moderation with marijuana. Come on, if I take in fewer cannabinoids, I won't get as high if I take in alot of cannabinoids. Simple as that.
This dude was talking about there's no such thing as half-stoned. What do you call smoking a bowl instead of taking two or three bowls? If I'm not mistaken, what you're trying to say is that there's no moderation with marijuana. Come on, if I take in fewer cannabinoids, I won't get as high if I take in alot of cannabinoids. Simple as that.
jeffy777
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///M said:
There definitely is such a thing as half stoned and a lot of it has to do with the quality of the weed. You can smoke 5 joints of crappy schwag and barely get a buzz. On the other hand, you can take just a couple hits from some funky skunky bud and get higher than a hippie in a helicopter :lol:
And yeah, a lot of it depends on how much you smoke and how often. If you smoke several joints a day then you aren't going to get as high than if you just smoke a couple a week. But if you do smoke multiple times a day, then chances are you're going to be in a mighty bad mood if a day comes and you can't score some. My wife and I used to be so dependent on weed that if we couldn't catch a buzz on a given day then we weren't having a good day at all. I'm so glad we've gotten passed that.
jensked
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//M, you feel really attacked, looking at your reaction.
Why would you say such a research doesn't is right?
It's a study which started 20 years ago. They had to start one day, you know.
And it's only by doing such a long study, people can make some conclusions.
Also, they've never said you die of smoking weed. Don't change my words.
It's just like that and I believe it.
And which surprises me the most is your reaction about being depressif.
No such thing as depressif? I tell you there is.
People who are depressif are mostly considered as people who don't want to be happy. But that isn't, it's just a chemical reaction in your brains wich gives you the feeling of being depressif.
And I admitt, the comparison between the effect of weed and alcohol is rather not on its place. But when you drink one beer, you can't say your drunk. When you smoke a joint, you can say you're stoned. Simply, it causes a bigger effect.
I sure agree that weed has a whole different effect than alcohol. When drunk you're worth shit, but when you smoke you still can act as a normal person.
Why would you say such a research doesn't is right?
It's a study which started 20 years ago. They had to start one day, you know.
And it's only by doing such a long study, people can make some conclusions.
Also, they've never said you die of smoking weed. Don't change my words.
It's just like that and I believe it.
And which surprises me the most is your reaction about being depressif.
No such thing as depressif? I tell you there is.
People who are depressif are mostly considered as people who don't want to be happy. But that isn't, it's just a chemical reaction in your brains wich gives you the feeling of being depressif.
And I admitt, the comparison between the effect of weed and alcohol is rather not on its place. But when you drink one beer, you can't say your drunk. When you smoke a joint, you can say you're stoned. Simply, it causes a bigger effect.
I sure agree that weed has a whole different effect than alcohol. When drunk you're worth shit, but when you smoke you still can act as a normal person.
///M
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One, it's called being DEPRESSED, and the state of being depressed is called depresive.
Isn't that a sweeping statement to make, though? Marijuana causes depression? I know quite a bit about depression, and not once have I encountered a solid study that states cannabinoids cause depression. Hell, in most cases, it's been the opposite. From what I know, depression is caused by many things, and it's often hard to pin down the exact cause case by case. Simple things like stress and trauma can lead to depression. It can get as complicated as genetics.
And don't think I'm hiding behind anything, there is a link between marijuana and depression. It's something called substance abuse. SUBSTANCE abuse is one of the causes of depression, not JUST marijuana abuse. Abusing any substance is idiotic, I'll grant you that. Too much of a good thing is never too good, including pot. You can become psychologically addicted to it, but then again, that can be the case with anything we encounter in the world. Hell, I'm addicted to shoes, and I'd probably get depressed if my collection got stolen. What I'm trying to get at is that the link between marijuana and depression is not as simple as it seems. There are tons of sociological, psychological, and in some cases, physiological factors that need to be considered for one to be labeled as a depressive person due to the abuse of a substance.
And again, I beg you to show me the study you claim. Show me were it states directly that cannabinoids are the cause of depression, and not the fact that the depression is caused simply by abusing the substance.
I also really don't see the link you're trying to make between a beer and a joint. I never knew that a person who smokes has to smoke a joint all the time, is that a Commandment now? Buddy, when I'm on a break, and I tend to smoke much more often, one joint of REALLY good shit doesn't do jack shit to me. But trust me, after my exams are done, I know half a joint would have me stoned out of my skull. Marijuana tolerance is very easy to build up. It's impossible to compare it to alcohol.
Oh yeah, beer isn't the only alcoholic beverage. You say one joint gets you high, thus rendering weed harmful? Shit, one shot of some really strong liquor can fuck you up. What's your point with that statement?
I don't feel attacked boss, I just feel that pot has such a bad image for no fucking reason. It doesn't kill anyone, it doesn't harm the body, hell, it makes the body healthier. The only time pot is bad for you is when YOU abuse it. I haven't smoked for weeks now because it's the end of the term. I haven't felt the need to go out and grab a bag of some fine herb. Moderation is the key.
EDIT:
I just HAD to get back to that anandamide comment you made, just to prove that you really are talking out of your ass here.
Anandamide, concentrate with me, is a naturally occuring cannabinoid. It's good for you. Infact, the name comes from the Sanskrit word "ananda", meaning bliss. It plays one hell of a roll in a person's behaviour. It's also crucial in early embryo development (which is why toking up while pregnant is a big no-no).
Now, THC and the other great cannabinoids found in marijuana and chocolate (Yes, even fucking chocolates have cannabinoids) BIND to the anandamide receptors. Cannabinoids trigger alot of things in the body, and most definately one of them is NOT the production of anandamide. Even if they DID trigger the production anandamide, which they don't, it still wouldn't cause depression. Get this, drugs that FIGHT depression trigger the production of anandamide.
That's why people who do suffer from severe depression smoke alot of weed. It helps them cope with life. It's no different than the garbage you buy over the counter. No wait, it is different. Pot won't make you a fucking pill popping junkie in the long run.
So please sir, get outta here with your nonsense.
Isn't that a sweeping statement to make, though? Marijuana causes depression? I know quite a bit about depression, and not once have I encountered a solid study that states cannabinoids cause depression. Hell, in most cases, it's been the opposite. From what I know, depression is caused by many things, and it's often hard to pin down the exact cause case by case. Simple things like stress and trauma can lead to depression. It can get as complicated as genetics.
And don't think I'm hiding behind anything, there is a link between marijuana and depression. It's something called substance abuse. SUBSTANCE abuse is one of the causes of depression, not JUST marijuana abuse. Abusing any substance is idiotic, I'll grant you that. Too much of a good thing is never too good, including pot. You can become psychologically addicted to it, but then again, that can be the case with anything we encounter in the world. Hell, I'm addicted to shoes, and I'd probably get depressed if my collection got stolen. What I'm trying to get at is that the link between marijuana and depression is not as simple as it seems. There are tons of sociological, psychological, and in some cases, physiological factors that need to be considered for one to be labeled as a depressive person due to the abuse of a substance.
And again, I beg you to show me the study you claim. Show me were it states directly that cannabinoids are the cause of depression, and not the fact that the depression is caused simply by abusing the substance.
I also really don't see the link you're trying to make between a beer and a joint. I never knew that a person who smokes has to smoke a joint all the time, is that a Commandment now? Buddy, when I'm on a break, and I tend to smoke much more often, one joint of REALLY good shit doesn't do jack shit to me. But trust me, after my exams are done, I know half a joint would have me stoned out of my skull. Marijuana tolerance is very easy to build up. It's impossible to compare it to alcohol.
Oh yeah, beer isn't the only alcoholic beverage. You say one joint gets you high, thus rendering weed harmful? Shit, one shot of some really strong liquor can fuck you up. What's your point with that statement?
I don't feel attacked boss, I just feel that pot has such a bad image for no fucking reason. It doesn't kill anyone, it doesn't harm the body, hell, it makes the body healthier. The only time pot is bad for you is when YOU abuse it. I haven't smoked for weeks now because it's the end of the term. I haven't felt the need to go out and grab a bag of some fine herb. Moderation is the key.
EDIT:
I just HAD to get back to that anandamide comment you made, just to prove that you really are talking out of your ass here.
Anandamide, concentrate with me, is a naturally occuring cannabinoid. It's good for you. Infact, the name comes from the Sanskrit word "ananda", meaning bliss. It plays one hell of a roll in a person's behaviour. It's also crucial in early embryo development (which is why toking up while pregnant is a big no-no).
Now, THC and the other great cannabinoids found in marijuana and chocolate (Yes, even fucking chocolates have cannabinoids) BIND to the anandamide receptors. Cannabinoids trigger alot of things in the body, and most definately one of them is NOT the production of anandamide. Even if they DID trigger the production anandamide, which they don't, it still wouldn't cause depression. Get this, drugs that FIGHT depression trigger the production of anandamide.
That's why people who do suffer from severe depression smoke alot of weed. It helps them cope with life. It's no different than the garbage you buy over the counter. No wait, it is different. Pot won't make you a fucking pill popping junkie in the long run.
So please sir, get outta here with your nonsense.
jensked
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Ooow, I'm sooo sorry about my writing mistakes like depressed and so.
It's very bad that I, a Belgian, can't speak as well english as someone who lives in Canada. I'll take lessons right away.
Or perhaps we can continue in dutch.
I can't show the study, I've read it in a newspaper in a big article long before I came across this topic.
The way you react seems a little frustrated. If I had clearly mentioned that I'm not against weed in my first post, you would have reacted in a different way. It's like every argument against weed is a bad one.
Maybe I haven't explain it as good as you wanted because I miss the right words in my vocaburely but you know damn well what I mean.
It's very bad that I, a Belgian, can't speak as well english as someone who lives in Canada. I'll take lessons right away.
Or perhaps we can continue in dutch.
I can't show the study, I've read it in a newspaper in a big article long before I came across this topic.
The way you react seems a little frustrated. If I had clearly mentioned that I'm not against weed in my first post, you would have reacted in a different way. It's like every argument against weed is a bad one.
Maybe I haven't explain it as good as you wanted because I miss the right words in my vocaburely but you know damn well what I mean.
///M
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No, I don't know damn well what you mean.
You claimed that marijuana directly causes depression. I countered that claim with the notion that it's the abuse of any substance, not just pot, that may lead to depression.
You're just buying into the hype caused by the prohibitionists. If you look at it as frustration, so be it. I am frustrated, I'm frustrated that people continue to perpetuate lies in newspapers (yeah, those are believable). These lies continue to cause false fears which is keeping prohibition alive, which fucking makes me paranoid everytime I toke up. I'm frustrated that bullshit like marijuana kills brain cells is the reason why I can't exercise my right to take whatever I want into MY own body.
And I apologize, I did take the cheap shot and insulted your level of english. One mistake in spelling doesn't mean shit, and your english is quite good. Extremely asshole-ish on my part.
You claimed that marijuana directly causes depression. I countered that claim with the notion that it's the abuse of any substance, not just pot, that may lead to depression.
You're just buying into the hype caused by the prohibitionists. If you look at it as frustration, so be it. I am frustrated, I'm frustrated that people continue to perpetuate lies in newspapers (yeah, those are believable). These lies continue to cause false fears which is keeping prohibition alive, which fucking makes me paranoid everytime I toke up. I'm frustrated that bullshit like marijuana kills brain cells is the reason why I can't exercise my right to take whatever I want into MY own body.
And I apologize, I did take the cheap shot and insulted your level of english. One mistake in spelling doesn't mean shit, and your english is quite good. Extremely asshole-ish on my part.
jeffy777
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///M said:
I'm curious about weed making the body healthier. Can you give some specifics? I might have heard that before, but I can't remember any details about it.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but from my personal experience (and my wife's and others that I know) pot had negative effects on our brains, such as sluggishness, short term memory problems, my wife was much more of a clutz when she smoked, and it really made us lazy and took away our motivation. However, we used to smoke everyday, so there wasn't a whole lot of moderation
I'm not aware of how moderate use of weed makes a person healthier. I know it can help with pain and spasms, but those people who use medical marijuana (like I did) usually smoke a lot, so the bads aspects can outweigh the good.
I feel that an occasional joint is not going to be too bad for you, but any smoke in the lungs isn't the best situation, so brownies would seem to be a healthier option.