Maserati Biturbo To Be Crushed

thedguy

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Um, no. Did you notice the part about "needing to swap the axle to get disc brakes"?

I'd also have to find a CLSD (most of them were VLSDs and LSDs weren't that common to begin with as Nissan wanted a lot for them).

Even if I found one and swapped it in, I'd still have drum brakes, and those blow.

So why not get a disc brake axle, and while it's out of the car swap in an LSD. Your previous response implied this was perfectly possible.

Beyond that, it's a shame your local retards at junkyard don't know how to read, cause over hear I'm hearing of plenty of people getting transmissions and axles out of cars.
 

zookiemike

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I'm happy that my toyota pickup's aren't going in for the kill. They all get 24mpg+ Except the 3.0 v6's but they can die:angel:
 

argatoga

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Thankfully a lot of classic British cars won't be effected by this. For many of them either their fuel economy is too good, or they have already rusted/burned themselves dead by now.
 

thedguy

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Thankfully a lot of classic British cars won't be effected by this. For many of them either their fuel economy is too good, or they have already rusted/burned themselves dead by now.

Anything British wasn't sold in the 80's (cut off is 84), and if it was, no body gives a damn about it anyway :lol: Or it's an Aston Martin.
 

argatoga

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Or Jaguar.

(Are you trying to piss Spectre off?:lol:)

Considering what Jaguar was selling in the U.S. during most of the '80s I don't think he would mind too much.
 

Spectre

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So why not get a disc brake axle, and while it's out of the car swap in an LSD. Your previous response implied this was perfectly possible.

Beyond that, it's a shame your local retards at junkyard don't know how to read, cause over hear I'm hearing of plenty of people getting transmissions and axles out of cars.

As I said, the law is ambiguous and unclear as to what constitutes the "drivetrain".

Also, the disc brake axles are only a bit more common than the LSD-equipped ones. The disc braked axles are unique to the WD21 Pathfinder SE and LE and were extra cost options that few bought.
 

thedguy

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Or Jaguar.

(Are you trying to piss Spectre off?:lol:)

Considering what Jaguar was selling in the U.S. during most of the '80s I don't think he would mind too much.

I direct you to the posts below:


Good riddance to yet another copy of the box my car came in. :D

Seriously, if people are going to trade in "clunkers," at least rid the world of a substantial percentage of the XJ40, preferably the 88-90 models first.

Yup. It's an XJ40 and it's an embarrassment to the marque - much like the Marina is to the Morris name. The sooner they all die the happier a whole lot of people are going to be.

(And unlike the Morris Morons, we Jag people generally don't try to pretend Jaguars' failures were good cars. The XJ40 was a miserable car, especially the early models like that one.)

IMHO, Top Gear is free to destroy as many XJ40s as they feel like. Then kill a couple more for good measure.

Kind of says it all.
 

British_Rover

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As I said, the law is ambiguous and unclear as to what constitutes the "drivetrain".

Also, the disc brake axles are only a bit more common than the LSD-equipped ones. The disc braked axles are unique to the WD21 Pathfinder SE and LE and were extra cost options that few bought.

Seriously have the people in Texas gotten stupider since I left?

You have new car dealerships clunking cars that don't qualify as clunkers and their claims are going to be rejected.

Then you have junkyards who don't bother to read the rules. I will try and track down the specific section of the rules later.

I remember reading it and it specifically says that while the engine must be destroyed other parts of the drivetrain may be reused.

That isn't ambiguous. Go find another junkyard that is staffed by idiots like the dealers.
 

Spectre

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Seriously have the people in Texas gotten stupider since I left?

You have new car dealerships clunking cars that don't qualify as clunkers and their claims are going to be rejected.

Then you have junkyards who don't bother to read the rules. I will try and track down the specific section of the rules later.

I remember reading it and it specifically says that while the engine must be destroyed other parts of the drivetrain may be reused.

That isn't ambiguous. Go find another junkyard that is staffed by idiots like the dealers.

Strangely, I happen to have a copy of the law right here.

Here's the section in question. I have highlighted the section that applies and is causing issues:

(2) DISPOSITION OF ELIGIBLE TRADE-IN VEHICLES-
(A) IN GENERAL- For each eligible trade-in vehicle
surrendered to a dealer under the Program, the dealer
shall certify to the Secretary, in such manner as the
Secretary shall prescribe by rule, that the dealer--
(i) has not and will not sell, lease, exchange, or
otherwise dispose of the vehicle for use as an
automobile in the United States or in any other
country; and
(ii) will transfer the vehicle (including the engine
block), in such manner as the Secretary prescribes,
to an entity that will ensure that the vehicle--
(I) will be crushed or shredded within such
period and in such manner as the Secretary
prescribes; and
(II) has not been, and will not be, sold,
leased, exchanged, or otherwise disposed of
for use as an automobile in the United States
or in any other country.
(B) SAVINGS PROVISION- Nothing in subparagraph (A)
may be construed to preclude a person who is responsible
for ensuring that the vehicle is crushed or shredded from-
-
(i) selling any parts of the disposed vehicle other
than the engine block and drive train (unless with
respect to the drive train, the transmission, drive
shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts);
or
(ii) retaining the proceeds from such sale.
(C) COORDINATION- The Secretary shall coordinate with
the Attorney General to ensure that the National Motor
Vehicle Title Information System and other publicly
accessible systems are appropriately updated on a timely
basis to reflect the crushing or shredding of vehicles
under this section and appropriate reclassification of the
vehicles' titles. The commercial market shall also have
electronic and commercial access to the vehicle
identification numbers of vehicles that have been
disposed of on a timely basis.

So, here's the problem - what does "Nothing in subparagraph (A)
may be construed to preclude a person who is responsible
for ensuring that the vehicle is crushed or shredded from selling any parts of the disposed vehicle other than the engine block and drive train (unless with
respect to the drive train, the transmission, drive shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts);" mean?

I checked with a couple of attorneys and the problem is that the law is unclear (in the sense of "will not stand up in court as a defense if the Feds decide to come after you") about what you can sell. What constitutes 'the rear end'? Do you have to sell each part in the rear axle separately, or can you sell it as an assembly? Can you sell it with the axle shafts installed? If you have a 4WD vehicle, can you sell the front axle? There are no answers in the law.

Since most junkyard operators already have enough legal issues, they don't want to touch this issue with a 50 meter pole. And therefore, no rear axle assembly for me.

They really need to issue a ruling to clarify this.
 
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British_Rover

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Strangely, I happen to have a copy of the law right here.

Here's the section in question. I have highlighted the section that applies and is causing issues:



So, here's the problem - what does "Nothing in subparagraph (A)
may be construed to preclude a person who is responsible
for ensuring that the vehicle is crushed or shredded from selling any parts of the disposed vehicle other than the engine block and drive train (unless with
respect to the drive train, the transmission, drive shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts);" mean?

I checked with a couple of attorneys and the problem is that the law is unclear (in the sense of "will not stand up in court as a defense if the Feds decide to come after you") about what you can sell. What constitutes 'the rear end'? Do you have to sell each part in the rear axle separately, or can you sell it as an assembly? Can you sell it with the axle shafts installed? If you have a 4WD vehicle, can you sell the front axle? There are no answers in the law.

Since most junkyard operators already have enough legal issues, they don't want to touch this issue with a 50 meter pole. And therefore, no rear axle assembly for me.

They really need to issue a ruling to clarify this.

I think their has been a clarified. The NHTSA/DOT sets the specifics on the rules and I am pretty sure I read a section in their rules that spelled out the ",may be reused," portion of the rule. There are junkyards that are selling the trans and rest of the drivetrain on a Clunker car.
 

Spectre

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I think their has been a clarified. The NHTSA/DOT sets the specifics on the rules and I am pretty sure I read a section in their rules that spelled out the ",may be reused," portion of the rule. There are junkyards that are selling the trans and rest of the drivetrain on a Clunker car.

The transmission, along with the drive shaft, is the only unambiguous part of that law citation. Unfortunately, 'rear end' is too generic and vague. If I wanted a transmission or a driveshaft, I wouldn't be complaining - but I don't want that, I want the entire rear axle assembly. Which the idiots in Congress don't seem to have been able to bother getting right in the law, as 'rear end' is not a recognized legal designation for any part on a car.

Also, there doesn't seem to have been any clarification on the matter whatsoever. See http://www.cars.gov/official-information for all the rules and the law, conveniently posted by the government.
 

British_Rover

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The transmission, along with the drive shaft, is the only unambiguous part of that law citation. Unfortunately, 'rear end' is too generic and vague. If I wanted a transmission or a driveshaft, I wouldn't be complaining - but I don't want that, I want the entire rear axle assembly. Which the idiots in Congress don't seem to have been able to bother getting right in the law, as 'rear end' is not a recognized legal designation for any part on a car.

Also, there doesn't seem to have been any clarification on the matter whatsoever. See http://www.cars.gov/official-information for all the rules and the law, conveniently posted by the government.

Generally, the trade-in vehicle must have a combined fuel economy, as
determined by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), below a specified value and
the new vehicle must have an EPA combined fuel economy above a higher specified
value. (Combined fuel economy is an EPA calculation representing the weighted average
of a vehicle?s city and highway fuel economy as determined according to the method
described in EPA regulations at 40 CFR 600.210-08(c).) The program covers qualifying
transactions that occur between July 1, 2009 and November 1, 2009, so long as funds
appropriated by Congress are not exhausted. If all of the conditions of eligibility are met
and the dealer provides NHTSA with sufficient documentation relating to the transaction,
NHTSA will make an electronic payment to the dealer equal to the amount of the credit
extended by the dealer to the consumer, not exceeding the statutorily authorized amount.
The dealer must agree to transfer the trade-in vehicle to a disposal facility that will crush
or shred it so that it will never be returned to the road, although parts of the vehicle, other
than the engine block and drive train (unless the drive train is sold in separate parts), may
be sold.

From Page five of...

http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/Rulemaking/Rules/Associated Files/CARS_FR.pdf

You can buy the drive train. The axle is a separate part from the rest of the drive train. Hell just pay for each piece separately if they want to get picky.

In that case, the rule permits the dealer to locate the
vehicle at the disposal facility and either disable the engine at that location or, if the
vehicle, including the engine block and drive train (unless the transmission, drive shaft,
and rear end are sold separately
), has already been crushed or shredded, to obtain proof,
in the form of the affidavit, from the disposal facility that the crushing or shredding has
occurred.

From page 43
 
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thedguy

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From Page five of...

http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/Rulemaking/Rules/Associated Files/CARS_FR.pdf

You can buy the drive train. The axle is a separate part from the rest of the drive train. Hell just pay for each piece separately if they want to get picky.



From page 43

I don't think you are quite seeing his point. It's not that it says "you can resell the rear end" it's "what constitues a rear end"? Rear end is, and always has been, slang. Some people refer to a rear end and are only speaking of the diff itself, others are speaking of an entire axle, and depending on the conversation it could just be the ring & pinion.

The documentation doesn't appear to clearly define "Rear-End." To us it's pretty clear, but to the law... not so much. Thats whats causing Spectre so much grief here.
 

Spectre

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Bingo. And as many are aware, whenever the government uses a slang term in a law that does not have a precise meaning, guess what? Quite often people will go with what they think is a correct course of action based on their understanding of the term... only to find out that an ambitious Federal prosecutor thinks it means something else and has managed to convince a grand jury that his definition is correct.

There are hundreds if not thousands of people in jail right now because of this phenomenon (usually because of equally ambiguous firearms laws that the government has no interest in clarifying) and anyone who's heard of it wants no part of it. If you want examples, I can give them.

This ambiguity in the law is why I can't buy the rear axle assembly off this C4C truck. It's about to be irrelevant though as it's getting crushed Wednesday to make room for something else.
 
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argatoga

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It's about to be irrelevant though as it's getting crushed Wednesday to make room for something else.

Ah so the 959 cleared to be cluncked?
 

argatoga

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NAIDANAC A

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Can somebody near where this is being traded please get the interior stripped so I can make a chair/couch out of it? PLEASE :D:
 
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