Massive Israeili strike on Gaza

[nomix]

What might work would be an EU peace keeping force with strong mandates to use force on both sides.

It might work, but we'll never know. Cause it won't happen.

 

[Dogbert]

What might work would be an EU peace keeping force with strong mandates to use force on both sides.

The liability there becomes so enormous that it's just setting them up for failure. The very moment that either side suspects the EU favoring the other, it's going to fall apart, and just drag the EU into a war.

 

[the Interceptor]

Maybe there is a long term solution to this: "injecting education". Maybe if you start to actually teach the kids and tell them what's going on in the world instead of implanting hate concentrated towards the enemy from the first steps on, this could find a peaceful end in a few decades.

 

[teeb]

The liability there becomes so enormous that it's just setting them up for failure. The very moment that either side suspects the EU favoring the other, it's going to fall apart, and just drag the EU into a war.

Why not take a leaf from a Tom Clancy book then and use Swiss troops as peacekeepers?

The Swiss are famously neutral...

 

[nomix]

Neutral and neutral.. Not so neutral during WW2. Even Sweden lingered between the axis and the allies.

Before Stalingrad, they allowed close to a million German troups to travel with trains through Sweden, during the campaign in 1940, they allowed troups and material to travel to Northern Norway by Swedish trains.

They also threw out Jewish refugees, Norwegian refugees and so on. And after Stalingrad, they swapped over to support Britain, and in the last months of the war, the British had a transit base in southern Sweden.

The Swiss were a bit more neutral to be honest, but quite pointed towards Germany.

 

[tigger]

It might work, but we'll never know. Cause it won't happen.

Exactly. I think that's what it would take, but I don't see it ever happening either.

Maybe there is a long term solution to this: "injecting education".

As I understand it, they're already doing this on some level. But even if the region was stable and peaceful, it would still take generations of education and trade between the two peoples. The Israelis, for that last 6 month ceasefire, exercised great restraint (militarily, at least). For this to happen without outside intervention, I think it would require a decade or two of the same level of restraint, along with rolling back settlements, allowing Palestinians to trade, etc etc etc.

 

[LeVeL]

Israel just slaughtered 200 people, and all the US can say is for Hamas to stop their rocket attacks.

/facepalm
That's one of the most biased, one-sided comments I have read in a long time so I will not respond because it would be useless.

This may sound very cruel, but, what i'd do is, - announce a total wipeout of Palestina let's say a month from certain date. Invite everyone for several years - paid shelter/medicare/every other need/ if only they cross the Israeli border with no weapons or illegal stuff. Then wipeout all that's left, rebuild everything from scratch, make a bigger Israeli state. This way they can avoid civilian death toll, and it will be much cheaper to pull off. After it's rebuilt everyone of course should be allowed back on their home territory, only now under Isralian governement.

Err... I'm just going to assume that that's not a serious suggestion.

Must be the russian way: blast everything to pieces, hope not too much civilians die, and then expect them to live peacefully and quiet under your government.

While I realize that you were responding to ViperVX's suggestion, I still feel the need to assure you that that is not the Russian way

Like a kid on Christmas, i'm sure Israel couldn't wait to start using these new weapons.

/facepalm
Yep, Israel had no weapons beforehand and they just couldn't wait to blow somebody up for no reason at all.

The problem is that for most of those who are fighting the only solution is the complete eradication of Israel. That is something that will not occur any time soon.

Yep. Peaceful negoatiations cannot exist and deals cannot be worked out with that mentality.

 

[Firecat]

Originally Posted by Firecat
Israel just slaughtered 200 people, and all the US can say is for Hamas to stop their rocket attacks.

/facepalm
That's one of the most biased, one-sided comments I have read in a long time so I will not respond because it would be useless.

If you wish to criticize me, at least add something useful to the discussion yourself.

And if you think that what I posted was "the most biased, one-sided comments you read in a long time" then you obviously don't read much, or watch the news. I've seen report after report about what it's like to live in these Israeli towns facing these rocket attacks and NOT ONE report about what it's like for the people living in Gaza.

Furthermore, what I posted was FACT. Both the White House and State Dept. have taken every single opportunity to criticize and condemn the Palestinians, and NOT ONE criticism of Israel. They didn't even have the courage to tell them to stop the violence.

Regardless of whether you think one side is right or wrong, escalating the violence SOLVES NOTHING. The entire world should be calling for a cessation of violence.

so "/facepalm" all you want. Ignorance is bliss, and I'm sure you must be elated.

 

[bartboy9891]

Why not take a leaf from a Tom Clancy book then and use Swiss troops as peacekeepers?

The Swiss are famously neutral...

http://img140.imageshack.**/img140/9269/225pxneutralpresidentnd9.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.**/img140/225pxneutralpresidentnd9.jpg/1/w225.png

I'm sorry I interrupted this otherwise serious thread.

 

[LeVeL]

If you wish to criticize me, at least add something useful to the discussion yourself.

And if you think that what I posted was "the most biased, one-sided comments you read in a long time" then you obviously don't read much, or watch the news. I've seen report after report about what it's like to live in these Israeli towns facing these rocket attacks and NOT ONE report about what it's like for the people living in Gaza.

Furthermore, what I posted was FACT. Both the White House and State Dept. have taken every single opportunity to criticize and condemn the Palestinians, and NOT ONE criticism of Israel. They didn't even have the courage to tell them to stop the violence.

Regardless of whether you think one side is right or wrong, escalating the violence SOLVES NOTHING. The entire world should be calling for a cessation of violence.

so "/facepalm" all you want. Ignorance is bliss, and I'm sure you must be elated.

I am not denying that what you posted was a fact; I was simply stating that providing facts defending only one side of the argument and condeming the other is not the best way at looking at this issue. Read your last post, for example. Poor Palestinians, no one will stand up for them... except the US is the only nation to back Israel - the rest of the world is strongly opposed to it.

And please, keep the personal insults to yourself.

 

[Firecat]

The "personal insult" was in response to your use of "/facepalm" (twice). So I think we are square in that regard.

And in my last post all I stated was that we aren't seeing any reports, (in the US) at least, about what's happening in Gaza. The consensus is that Hamas broke the ceasefire, they are wrong...Israel is justified. Nobody is mentioning that it was an Israeli incursion prior to the rocket attacks which broke the ceasefire, or the blockade, or the fact that this operation was planned months ago. But again, none of this really should matter because what we all should be looking for is a way to end the violence.

I'm not going to defend Hamas. Sending rockets into Israel didn't accomplish a thing, besides help make things a whole lot worse.

 

[LeVeL]

The violence won't stop, at least not permanently. The Palestinians want land that is currently controlled by Israel... there is, unfortunately, no way that I can think of to settle the argument peacefully once and for all. What I do know is that that land is currently Israeli territory and regardless of anyone's opinion on which side should control Gaza, shooting rockets into Israel is not the answer. I don't care how much you argue who started this most recent gunfight, the fact remains that Hamas, a terrorist organization, keeps attacking and provoking Israel. And by the way, since when do we take into consideration the wants of terrorists?

 

[Firecat]

What I do know is that that land is currently Israeli territory and regardless of anyone's opinion on which side should control Gaza, shooting rockets into Israel is not the answer. I don't care how much you argue who started this most recent gunfight, the fact remains that Hamas, a terrorist organization, keeps attacking and provoking Israel. And by the way, since when do we take into consideration the wants of terrorists?

wow. And you were accusing me of being biased and one-sided?

Firstly, Hamas is a more complex organization than you think. Even if you want to classify them entirely as a "terrorist organization"...most of their "wants" are shared by the Palestinians.

You can't say that you don't care about who started the recent violence, and in the same breath say that Israel is constantly attacked and provoked. Because once again you are simply ignoring the facts.

If an Israeli state is to be accepted, at the very least it should be according to the '47 partition plan.

 

[nomix]

To be honest, we are in the position of discussing which of two bad deeds are acceptable.

The question is obvious, neither.

But what will be the sollution? We do not know.

It's far from concrete and optimistic, but let's be honest, it's true.

 

[LeVeL]

wow. And you were accusing me of being biased and one-sided?

Firstly, Hamas is a more complex organization than you think. Even if you want to classify them entirely as a "terrorist organization"...most of their "wants" are shared by the Palestinians.

You can't say that you don't care about who started the recent violence, and in the same breath say that Israel is constantly attacked and provoked. Because once again you are simply ignoring the facts.

If an Israeli state is to be accepted, at the very least it should be according to the '47 partition plan.

You misunderstood me. What I was trying to get at was that both sides need to stop attacking each other (and yes, Israel gets attacked and retaliates more often than they start attacking first) because the violence simply can't resolve this issue until one (or both) side(s) is/are killed off completely.

 

[Firecat]

the violence simply can't resolve this issue until one (or both) side(s) is/are killed off completely.

And that likely isn't going to happen (both sides being killed off). Maybe it will be 10 years from now, maybe 50. But eventually cooler heads will prevail and the issue will be resolved. We all know how this must end, but it's just tragic that so many will die in the interim.

 

[BlaRo]

Poor Palestinians, no one will stand up for them... except the US is the only nation to back Israel - the rest of the world is strongly opposed to it.

Not trying to strong-arm my way into this argument (I find it pretty interesting reading), but don't the Palestinians have the support of pretty much every Arab nation surrounding Israel? As well as Iran? Who all want to push Israel into the sea? And that those nations haven't done anything outright because that would mean provoking Israel to attack them, which would provoke the US and Europe, which would end up starting WWIII?

 

[LeVeL]

Not trying to strong-arm my way into this argument (I find it pretty interesting reading), but don't the Palestinians have the support of pretty much every Arab nation surrounding Israel? As well as Iran? Who all want to push Israel into the sea? And that those nations haven't done anything outright because that would mean provoking Israel to attack them, which would provoke the US and Europe, which would end up starting WWIII?

Islam and Judaism are at odds to begin with so yes, most of the Arab nations would like to see Israel destroyed. An all-out attack on Israel would mean a retalliation from both Israel and the United States, which would provoke very strong... emotions, let's put it that way, from the Europeans.

 

[nomix]

Not trying to strong-arm my way into this argument (I find it pretty interesting reading), but don't the Palestinians have the support of pretty much every Arab nation surrounding Israel? As well as Iran?

Iran and Syria. Jordan won't have anything to do with them, neither does Lebanon. Egypt is in a odd position, but is strongly in favor of Fatah, and in no way in favor of Hamas, even if they act as negotiators. Saudi Arabia and the other oil producing countries in the middle east have little to say about the issue, and that has been the status for years. Let not forget that the oil producing nations of Arabia strongly supports the US, because the US is their supreme customer.

Who all want to push Israel into the sea? And that those nations haven't done anything outright because that would mean provoking Israel to attack them, which would provoke the US and Europe, which would end up starting WWIII?

Iran and Syria might have this view, but it's debated. President Ahmediniad has said a lot on the subject, but I understand a lot has been over interpreted by interpreters without the proper understanding of how one uses tone and images in speech.

An American with the proper knowledge of the Norwegian language could translate a text from a Norwegian polition perfectly, but still miss out on the nuances, subtle ironies and underlaying aspects. In the end, it would be a perfect translation, but have little to do with the actual meaning.

They won't provoke Israel too much because they can't. In an all-out war, Israel will win, no doubt. But that's not to say Israel can start a war, they most definatly can't. It would ruin their economy, and by utilizing their strategic strength (tactical strength), they will lose their strategic strength, leading to the fall of Israel in the long run.

Israel has a strategic strength in their tactical strength, but only as long as they don't use that tactical strength. Fancy, eh?

 

[CyberMonkey]

Israel seems to be using cluster bombs, again. Hurray for yet another minefield.