McLaren espionage hearing

Red_Bull

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It could be that Ferrari are merely trying to destabilise McLaren's world championship effort by distracting the key players over this espionage saga. McLaren are having to dedicate resources to this issue when they should be concentrating 100% on extracting the maximum from their cars and team.
 

fbc

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Ron Dennis said:
If any criticism is to be made, then I suggest that you should reflect carefully on the conduct of your licence holder, Ferrari, which appears to have won the Australian Grand Prix by racing with an illegal device.
Love it - god I hope this all backfires on Ferrari somewhere down the track.
 

Devon

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For those who still care...

For those who still care...

Macaluso defends need for appeal

Thursday, 02, August, 2007, 20:48

Luigi Macaluso, president of the Italian motorsport federation, has responded to Ron Dennis?s letter about the spy saga by reiterating his view that the FIA's International Court of Appeal is the right forum to settle the matter.

In a letter to Macaluso published on Wednesday, Dennis set out a detailed defence of McLaren?s actions and accused Ferrari of mud-slinging in the media.

Writing in response on Thursday, Macaluso stressed that he was not in a position to address Dennis?s points ? but said the difference between the two teams? versions of events underlined why it was necessary for their competing claims to be adjudicated by the appeal court.

?It is not my role nor would it be appropriate for me to answer your various points,? he wrote.

?It will be for the Court of Appeal to do so.?

Macaluso added that, regardless of McLaren?s version of events, it remained anomalous that the team should be found guilty as charged and yet serve no penalty.

?I would limit myself to stress that McLaren was found in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, but nevertheless escaped any penalty,? he wrote.

Macaluso said the potential ramifications of the case were such that it was vital that the FIA set the right precedent.

?As [FIA president Max] Mosley indicated in his letter of 31 July 2007, it is important for the world championship that the correct outcome is reached,? he wrote.

?It is clearly in the interest of the sport that the appropriate precedent for dealing with events such as these is set.?

Dennis argues that an appeal is unnecessary because Ferrari was given a full opportunity to present its case at last Thursday?s World Motor Sport Council hearing.

But Macaluso says Ferrari was merely an observer at the hearing and its lawyers were not able to cross-examine McLaren personnel and challenge their evidence.

?A hearing before the International Court of Appeal will allow Ferrari an opportunity to present its evidence and arguments in detail,? he wrote.
Source
 

HondaF1

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:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:

Make it go away!!

FFS Ferrari, give up. You are going to lose the championship and the longer this carries on, the more it will backfire on you.
 

fbc

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I agree with a couple of points there:


Macaluso added that, regardless of McLaren?s version of events, it remained anomalous that the team should be found guilty as charged and yet serve no penalty.

?I would limit myself to stress that McLaren was found in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, but nevertheless escaped any penalty,? he wrote.
This I don't understand either - you're either guilty and you should get pinged for it, or you're innocent. It seems to me that the guilty verdict was to keep Ferrari happy, but no penalty was imposed because McLaren weren't actually guilty.

?As [FIA president Max] Mosley indicated in his letter of 31 July 2007, it is important for the world championship that the correct outcome is reached,? he wrote.
Yep, agree with that too - so exclude Ferrari from the results of the Australian GP since the car was illegal.
 

HondaF1

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^ So basically Ferrari should lose their win from Australia based on what Ferrari are saying.

Bet they go in there and complain that they are the victims here and shouldnt be penalised for running an illegal car in Melbourne.
 

GraemeH

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The thing is, if Ferrari are saying teams should be held responsible for their individuals actions... Then they are saying they should be excluded from the championship too for selling secrets to other teams.

I agree the original verdict was shakey, if all the evidence available said it was only Coughlan that had the data, you either find them guilty and punish them because you're holding the team responsible for rogue employees, in which case Ferrari would get the same punishment, or you find them not guilty because you accept some employees will act alone.
 

HondaF1

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Wait til Stepney's case starts and we get the real dirt on Ferrari. Then watch that annoying Italian team try and get out that mess!!
 

fbc

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And on, and on, and on it goes...

Ferrari scoffs at 'false' accusation
03 August 2007

Ferrari has hit out at Ron Dennis' claim that Kimi Raikkonen won the Australian Grand Prix this year with an illegal car. As the war of words between the two giants of F1 heightens, Ferrari released a statement saying that the McLaren team principal's accusation is "serious and false".

Recently Ron Dennis sent a letter to Italian motorsport authority ACI-CSAI president Luigi Macaluso saying that the Maranello-based outfit is launching a savage media campaign against McLaren to deliberately damage the team's reputation, adding that the Ferrari team is not sporting itself, having won the Australian Grand Prix unfairly. After Raikkonen had won the season's opener, Ferrari's suspect floor device was banned and the team had to remove it from its cars.

A statement from Ferrari read: "With regard to the points made by Vodafone McLaren Mercedes concerning the 2007 Australian Grand Prix in a letter to the President of the ACI-CSAI, Gino Macaluso on 1 August last, Ferrari wishes to state very strongly that its letter contains accusations that are both serious and false.

"Contrary to the statement put forward by Vodafone McLaren Mercedes, Ferrari never illegally gained any advantage. The two F2007 cars used in the Australian Grand Prix were deemed by the Stewards to be in conformity with the technical regulations, before, during and at the end of the event. If there had been any illegalities, they would have been disqualified.

"In fact, what the FIA did next is commonplace. The FIA took the opportunity to issue a clarification on the interpretation of the regulation and then asked the teams concerned to make the necessary modifications. There are actually numerous examples of this in both the recent and distant past which have also involved other teams.

"At the next sitting of the FIA International Court of Appeal, Ferrari will fully explain its position on the entire matter."
Source

It's a fair point - if the ruling the FIA made on the Ferrari was actually a rule clarification then the car wasn't really illegal.
 

HondaF1

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Im getting fed up with Ferrari. This usually cheers me up though. Enjoy!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt_xOMvv5PQ[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d72E8fg3vsE[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHh_4Sv2yDQ[/YOUTUBE]

Ah, Im feeling better now :)
 
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TC

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Im getting fed up with Ferrari. This usually cheers me up though. Enjoy!

[YOUTUBE]tt_xOMvv5PQ[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]d72E8fg3vsE[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]XHh_4Sv2yDQ[/YOUTUBE]

Ah, Im feeling better now :)
 

Devon

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More...

More...

Dennis rubbishes Macaluso's claims

Friday, 03, August, 2007, 18:13

The open exchange of letters between the various parties involved in the ?Spy-gate? case continues unabated, as McLaren published another statement from team boss Ron Dennis on Friday afternoon.

Dennis wrote to Luigi Macaluso, president of the Italian motorsport federation, on Wednesday giving a detailed account of events from McLaren?s perspective, which he said disproved ?grossly misleading? suggestions from Ferrari that the British team had cheated.

Macaluso replied on Thursday, saying it would not be appropriate for him to address Dennis?s points and that the matter should be left to the FIA?s International Court of Appeal.

Macaluso said Ferrari felt compelled to appeal the World Motor Sport Council?s July 26 ruling ? which found McLaren guilty of possessing confidential Ferrari documents but issued no penalty ? because it had not been given a full opportunity to state its case and cross-examine witnesses.

In his latest response Dennis again dismisses that claim, saying it has been put about to ?undermine the credibility? of the World Council?s verdict.

He writes: ?You mention that Ferrari did not have ?sufficient opportunity to present to the Court or ask questions of key individuals?. This is not correct.

?Ferrari submitted a 118-page written submission which was sent to WMSC members on 20th July, prior to circulating the McLaren submission four days later and only two days before the hearing.

?Ferrari had lawyers of its choosing present and were at no stage prevented from asking questions or making submissions.

?Indeed Ferrari did make submissions and ask questions of witnesses.

?We are?not comfortable with any attempt to undermine the credibility of the decision of the WMSC by a misleading version of events portraying Ferrari as having had insufficient opportunity to present its case.

?If Ferrari had wished to submit more than 118 pages by way of written submission, ask more questions or make longer oral submissions, then it could have done so.

?It is therefore not a case of an insufficient opportunity but just dissatisfaction with the outcome.

?I did not intend to publish this letter but as I now find that your letter to me has been published I have no alternative other than to do this.

?I suggest that we now leave this process to the internal consideration of the FIA.?
Source

^Some interesting points made there by Ron Dennis.


Flavio is feeling a little left out. :comfort:
Briatore: Spy scandal involves me
03 August 2007

Flavio Briatore says he is keeping a close eye on how the spy scandal develops and will attend the appeal court hearing. Although the Ferrari-McLaren saga does not involve Renault directly, the team principal feels it is damaging to the sport's reputation such is its dominance in the media.

"We already had somebody in Paris last time (for the orginial hearing on 26 July)," Briatore told a press conference.

Although it would seem logical that Renault might support a penalty against McLaren given that the team is behind the Woking-based oufit in the standings, Briatore is not siding with Ferrari. Instead he claims that he has the sport's best interests at heart.

"I am in Formula One like McLaren and Ferrari," he explained. "This issue about this story involves everybody sooner or later and I want to know exactly what is going on because I think it is part of our job. If you see the newspapers in the last two months we are not talking about which drivers won the race, lost the race?

"The spy story, if you want, was predominating everything and because we are part of this business we demand to know exactly what is going on because it is probably damaging everybody a little bit including me, including everybody. Stuff like this is not good for the sponsors, it is not good for anybody. We hope we find a final step and we hope something happens. I think that is the way we stop talking about that."

On the other hand Christian Horner, who is team principal of Renault-powered Red Bull Racing, believes it is better to trust in the FIA's handling of the matter and keep out of it.

"The matter doesn't concern our team or any employees of our team and we trust in the governing body to make the right decisions," he said.

Source
 

fbc

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Flavio, has to get his bit in doesn't he...

The more this drags on, the worse it looks for both Ferrari and the Italian motorsport body. Which makes me happy.
 

Red_Bull

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Flav calls for McLaren`s exclusion

Flavio Briatore is calling for McLaren to be excluded from the F1 World Championship in light of the Stepneygate scandal.

The FIA's World Motor Sport Council recently found McLaren guilty of unauthorised possession of Ferrari documents.

However, the WMSC refused to punish the Woking team, claiming there was insufficient evidence to suggest they had made use of the information.

The ruling, though, is now up for appeal and Briatore is hoping that McLaren receive the harshest penalty possible as that, he says, is what the F1 rules say should happen.

"I'm not a judge," he told Autosport when asked what McLaren's punishment should be.

But, he added: "Just read the regulations: for intellectual property theft the punishment is exclusion."

However, it's not just McLaren who felt the Renault team boss's wrath.

He has also called for the two men at the heart of Stepneygate, Ferrari's former mechanic Nigel Stepney and McLaren's suspended chief designer Mike Coughlan, to be banned from motor sport for life.

"Some people, technicians and engineers, would thank their lucky star for working in F1. Coughlan and Stepney made tons of money - but that's wasn't enough for them, it seems," Briatore said.

"They should be banned."
Source

'For intellectual property theft, the punishment is exclusion'. Thats fine, except that McLaren didn't steal anything.

This issue is beginning to drag on now. The FIA made their decision not to penalise McLaren, so I think Ferrari and the Italians should've just let it drop. Instead they're continuing to bring the sport into disrepute which is not conductive to its interests and therefore I feel that they should be penalised instead.
 
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HondaF1

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^ The FIA will do something to Ferrari if it goes on for too much longer I hope.
 

fbc

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Flavio just can't help himself can he? Seems he suffers from the same inability to grasp some simple concepts as Ferrari do.

I guess I can now take joy from seeing the Renaults struggle.
 

Red_Bull

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Flavio should concentrate on getting his cars back to the front again and not worry about something that does not involve him.
 

Devon

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No, it hasn't fallen into blackhole...

No, it hasn't fallen into blackhole...

Todt snubs Dennis face-off offer
06 August 2007

Jean Todt has used Dennis' peace offering over the current espionage saga against him, saying that it should have come a long time ago. The McLaren team principal reportedly said after the Hungarian Grand Prix on Sunday that he had offered to meet with Ferrari face to face to resolve the spy case, which is currently stealing headlines and damaging the sport's reputation.

Dennis said: "We hope and would really like to find a solution between the teams as opposed to one that is the subject of a more damaging process for F1."

A suspicious Todt replied on Sky Italia: "I would have preferred if this proposal had been made months ago. Then it would have been beneficial and we could have prevented many damages to the image of Formula One and the serious effects for Ferrari."
Source

:thumbsdown:
 

Necx0

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Seeing as we are speaking of arrogance recently, apparently he is a pig of a man, absolute arsehole yet very charming when he needs to be. A modern day Napoleon. Amazing team leader though.
 
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