Mclaren Mp 4/12C review, what did you think?

Esvees

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Personally, I feel Jeremy (and a lot of other road testers) are full of it when they critsize such a crushingly capable machine for lacking "soul". In fact, they pretty much said exactly the same about the Ferrari 458 when comparing it to earlier Fezza's. Truth is, there will never be another F40; and if anything, something like the Noble M400 that comes close, they slag off for not having all the safety bits and refinement you have on a modern supercar.

I've driven a fair number of cars with "soul", but as far as I'm concerned, as long as the steering feel and throttle response are good (which by all accounts are superb on the McLaren), I'd rather that the car feels like it's glued together properly than it having too much "character".

And with regards to sound, the raw and shouty exhaust on my car gave me goosebumps the first few times I drove it, but driving it allmost daily, I got too used to the sound and wish it would stop setting off car alarms all the time... I imagine it's not that different if you own a Ferrari, glorious noise to most of us, but gets grating if you hear it all the time.

On top of that, with that amazing suspension set-up on the McLaren, it seems for the first time you really can have a balls-out supercar that you could drive down to Italy in one sitting. If was in the market to actually own a supercar (i can allways dream...) I'd certainly attach a lot more value to that than even the incredible lap-times or the madness of a Lamborghini or the "thing they can't quite name" that the Ferrari supposedly has.

What do you think?
 
The lack of "excitement" with the MP4-12C has been in pretty much every single review of the car I've ever read. "It's capable, but somehow...not as special as the 458" seems to be the automotive journalists decree.
 
I totally saw that lack of soul claim coming from miles away, probably the only way Jeremy knew how to keep Ferrari happy with him. It's so stupid, basically saying because it's so good at everything, it isn't great. So flawed in so many ways, but that's my opinion.
 
I didn't like it. Talking about being confortable and economical? What the hell?
Also, the 3 seconds gap felt weird.
 
Well, having actually seen the review for the second time now (great pictures), I am rather surprised about the verdict. Well, yeah, the car is not as shouty as a Ferrari nor is it as aggressive as a Lambo. And yes, Clarkson might not like it which is okay in something like Top Gear where personal opinions always play an important role.

But what I am really wondering about is the lap time and how the three guys dealt with that. Come on, what we have here is a car that:
- beat the absolutely bonkers Ascari A10
- dwarfed the million poind hypercar Veyron SS with way north of a thousand hores
- and almost got the through and through trackday Ariel
- not to mention that it absolutely humiliated the Ferrari 458 they compared it to by something like 3 seconds.

THREE SECONDS !!!

This car is playing not only in a different league but on a totally different planet. And somehow - to be honest - neither JC nor one of the other two guys did really go into the implications of what these three seconds actually mean for his beloved Ferrari and all the other supercars out there namley that McLaren seems to have done it again. The perfect car. Lightyears ahead of anything else. And for this I accept a slight lack of soul.

But - for me - it seems as if the presenters couldn't be bothered with this. Because it is not red?
 
Mclaren now just needs to lend the F1 and let the stig have a go in it, to see how the MP4 really stacks against the King.
 
I totally saw that lack of soul claim coming from miles away, probably the only way Jeremy knew how to keep Ferrari happy with him. It's so stupid, basically saying because it's so good at everything, it isn't great. So flawed in so many ways, but that's my opinion.

Have you ever driven either of them? I thought not, so you don't have a clue about what you're talking about. Jeremy says these things because he truly means them and I know where he's getting at (as most people should).

"It's not as good, but it's better." - :hammond:

OK there, kiddo? ;)

I thought it was a brilliant review and comparison; one of Jeremy's best.
 
TG's verdict ties in with the many other reviews I've seen and read. Basically, on paper it should be brilliant, but liking cars is subjective as well as objective. To petrolheads cars are not simply machines to get from a to b, they have character, personalities and soul and if a car doesn't have these things then it can never feel as special as one that does. The McLaren is too clinical and ruthless about what it does, regardless of how well it does it, so for me the Ferrari wins too.
 
Let's not forget that Jeremy never liked the F1 either.

I'd much rather have the MP4/12C instead of the preposterous and cliched 458. The McLaren is bought by people who like cars, the Ferrari - by people who like to be fashionable.
 
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My $0.02 for what they are worth.

I was there last week and before the filming started I had a good nose around both of them. Now I am not the biggest Ferrari fan by a long shot and had I the means there is a wealth of cars I would choose over any of their current line-up, but seeing them next to each other I concur with what Jeremy said just by looking at them.

There is, somehow, something sterile about the McLaren, even at rest. From no angle inside and out did it speak to me and frankly the fax machine analogy hit the nail on the head as I wouldn't get excited about one of those either.

The 458 on the other hand gave off something, an indefinable thing, but there was a communication there, a romance, a soul if you like similar to what I would get looking at Concorde when compared to a 737 - in the final analysis both are simply airliners but one tugs at the heart in a way the other never could.

To look at it another way the McLaren is like going to bed with a woman who is physically perfect in every way who just lies there, versus one who isn't perfect but who shows the want and the passion that marks the difference between procreation and making love.
 
Now I am not the biggest Ferrari fan by a long shot and had I the means there is a wealth of cars I would choose over any of their current line-up, but seeing them next to each other I concur with what Jeremy said just by looking at them.

There is, somehow, something sterile about the McLaren, even at rest. From no angle inside and out did it speak to me and frankly the fax machine analogy hit the nail on the head as I wouldn't get excited about one of those either.

The 458 on the other hand gave off something, an indefinable thing, but there was a communication there, a romance, a soul if you like similar to what I would get looking at Concorde when compared to a 737 - in the final analysis both are simply airliners but one tugs at the heart in a way the other never could.

Absolutely, I have also been lucky enough to see both cars in the metal and I almost walked right past the McLaren without noticing. I too am not a Ferrari fan by any stretch of the imagination and I really really wanted to like the McLaren more but it just does nothing for me emotionally and these are the kind of cars that you buy with your heart and not with your head.
 
Also, the 3 seconds gap felt weird.

Well Jeremy said it was developed on TG test track. Maybe the actual car was a bit tuned...
The lap was absolutely stunning, and their reaction ? "Wow. Amazing. Anyway..."
 
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Absolutely, I have also been lucky enough to see both cars in the metal and I almost walked right past the McLaren without noticing. I too am not a Ferrari fan by any stretch of the imagination and I really really wanted to like the McLaren more but it just does nothing for me emotionally and these are the kind of cars that you buy with your heart and not with your head.

Exactly. I had a similar conversation with my petrolhead father-in-law the other week ie what could you feasibly buy with the massive pending EuroMillions jackpot.

Veyron? All sold and Simon Cowell has one.
Pagani/Koenigsegg? Only if you have a yacht!
Lambo? If you want to look like the spoilt son of an Arab sheik.
Ferrari? Mid-life crisis.
Aston Martin? Sadly too common these days and have lost their cache due to too many footballists.
Porsche? Oh, cock!
Bentley? Slippers!
Rolls Royce? It's the Cowell thing again.

Which leaves one simply with Maserati which while flawed have soul and passion, or a used 8C Competizione. Especially since Montezemalo has vetoed any more of the new Stratos.
 
Well Jeremy said it was developed on TG test track. Maybe the actual car was a bit tuned...
The lap was absolutely stunning, and their reaction ? "Wow. Amazing. Anyway..."

Yes, true but still, 3 second is HUGE gap. I mean, I can give 1 or 1.2 second to the fact it's been developed on the track, and another half second to the fact that the new stig looks better then Collins, what about the rest?

Doesn't look legit to me, slick tyres maybe? I don't like accusing but every petrol head can realize that 3 second on a short track like the top gear test track it's a lot of time and having seen the other reviews, as I repeat doesn't seem right. I expected the MP to be faster, but not by that much.
 
Which leaves one simply with Maserati which while flawed have soul and passion, or a used 8C Competizione. Especially since Montezemalo has vetoed any more of the new Stratos.

And actually, the Alfa 8C and Maserati Gran Turismo and Quattroporte are among my favourite cars from the last few years, despite the fact that there are some rivals which are 'better'.
 
My $0.02 for what they are worth.

To look at it another way the McLaren is like going to bed with a woman who is physically perfect in every way who just lies there, versus one who isn't perfect but who shows the want and the passion that marks the difference between procreation and making love.

I agree on the seniment, but here's the thing, I've seen plenty of 458's up close and even sat in one driving (slowly), but like a lot of modern cars it doesn't grab me in the visceral way a late 60's Jag, Ferrari or muscle car would. I feel it's just as clinical and soulless in that sense; more or less all modern cars do, this just happens to have a Ferrari badge.

I also just don't think it's that pretty; it's flamboyant and interesting yes, but I actually much prefer the more subtle look of the F360 or the McLaren for that matter. The back looks good, but I really don't like the front. Then again, looks are very subjective.
 
And actually, the Alfa 8C and Maserati Gran Turismo and Quattroporte are among my favourite cars from the last few years, despite the fact that there are some rivals which are 'better'.

Me too.

Related story. My eldest went to her first ever sleepover some months ago. It was the first day this year where it was warm enough to drop the roof and she felt really special arriving in the MX5 in the sunshine.

I went to collect her the next day just as one of her other friends was leaving. In her Dad's GranSport! How the other half lives, eh?

I agree on the seniment, but here's the thing, I've seen plenty of 458's up close and even sat in one driving (slowly), but like a lot of modern cars it doesn't grab me in the visceral way a late 60's Jag, Ferrari or muscle car would. I feel it's just as clinical and soulless in that sense; more or less all modern cars do, this just happens to have a Ferrari badge.

I also just don't think it's that pretty; it's flamboyant and interesting yes, but I actually much prefer the more subtle look of the F360 or the McLaren for that matter. The back looks good, but I really don't like the front. Then again, looks are very subjective.

This is where your argument kind of falls apart. You can't use cars from previous generations as a comparison as they were designed with a completely different set of criteria, to much fewer regulations with much less sophisticated equipment. I agree that at the top end of the market cars of yesteryear are infinitely prettier than what is around today but you can no more use, say, a DB5 as a benchmark for modern Astons as you can a typewriter to a laptop.
 
they worked hard to get this car to where it is , i personally think its really lacking in many ways including 'soul' wise . but the fact is they built it to go fast and to be very agile.
the mp4-12c ,to me, is like a young body building girl with huge muscles and very healthy and fit , but it aint appealing what so ever .
 
About the Review:

As a Machine: The car is an scalpel. Efficient, clinically clean, precise and unemotional (until you put your foot down).

As a piece of excitement: Its just like fetishes. It Depends on the person. I think is a proper drivers car. A truly driving machine.

About the Review: I thought, cinematic-ally; Fucking awesome!

If I had the money I would have them both, but since I don't. I don't even have to bother about having a Ferrari vs McLaren dilemma.
It's all cool. I am just glad they exist.
 
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There is, somehow, something sterile about the McLaren, even at rest. From no angle inside and out did it speak to me and frankly the fax machine analogy hit the nail on the head as I wouldn't get excited about one of those either. [...]
That.

I personally don?t like the Ferrari either stylewise so comparing it to the 458 doesn?t do it for me ... but put it next to a Lambo ... or a 911 turbo. IMHO even the boring, old-fashioned 911 turbo has more charisma than that McLaren. The Better machine? Don?t really care ... if these sort of cars don?t capture your imagination in some sort of way, they?ve failed.
Watch the Milau-bridge roadtrip or Jeremys review of the Gallardo Spyder to find out what I?m on about if you don?t understand it ...
 
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